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I used to use Django a lot. This news caused me to go back and check the release notes going back to 1.5. It seems like between every major point release theirs

by jonesb6 11y ago

I used to use Django a lot. This news caused me to go back and check the release notes going back to 1.5. It seems like between every major point release theirs about a ~6 month gap. Furthermore the features in each release (bar migrations in 1.7, which IMO should've been in a loooong time ago) are relatively minor. Django also is fairly quick to deprecate older versions (including python versions) which is fine I guess since they're pretty on top of security and provide clear upgrade paths. However the fact remains, as I assessed about two years ago, that the momentum behind the Django ecosystem is as stagnant as ever. Many third-party libraries are deprecated or ill-maintained. This is as much symptomatic of Python as a whole as Django, but regardless it exasperates the slow release cycles when compared to other languages and frameworks. My money is still on JS/Clojure/Erlang/Go/etc. to carry us into the future of web development. No doubt Django will fight to the bitter end with its strong enterprise support and mature codebase. I'm ok with that, it's just not for me anymore.

xngzng 11y ago
> that the momentum behind the Django ecosystem is as stagnant as ever. Django Rest Framework appeared on Thoughworks radar under Trial this May (https://www.thoughtworks.com/radar/languages-and-frameworks https://www.thoughtworks.com/radar/languages-and-frameworks), momentum is anything but stagnant.
dguaraglia 11y ago
If by "stagnant" you mean "mature enough that there's little need for constant refreshing of the libraries", then you are right. There's only so much you can do with a web framework, and only so many ways you can go around doing it. There's literally nothing you can do on the newest, flashiest (read: unstable, poorly documented, non-battle-tested) frameworks that you can't do using a combination of Django and Tornado/Twisted in half the LOCs and using mature libraries. The same could be said about Ruby on Rails, or even something like Spring Boot for Java or Spray/Scala. I don't mean to deflate innovation, but innovation for innovation's sake is rarely useful.
Daishiman 11y ago
I don't know what planet you're living in, but the Python ecosystem is about the most mature and modern I have ever seen for modern development in dynamically typed, interpreted languages with a strong web presence.. Take a look around and the equivalent libraries of the languages you mentioned. Honestly, the quality of similar libraries for the functionality that you need is lower, and the featureset smaller. Javascript suffers from all the problems of a "teenage" tech: immaturity, lack of established libs, poor documentation, and some astoundingly bad coding practices out in the wild. Clojure's ecosystem is very small, and has the same issues with code stability and lack of decent mainstream library alternatives. Erlang, though a great language, has some issues with its unfriendly ecosystem and a general lack of libraries for many common tasks. Go, while gaining serious momentum, still seems to suffer from a substantial lack of features to compete in the same rapid development niche that Python, Ruby and JS attempt to point to, although it was never meant for that role anyway.
ing33k 11y ago
unless you want to get downvoted , saying things about python/Django in HN is not a good idea .
- acdha 11y ago
  “saying things” is not a synonym for “trolling”. If those claims had been less vague and supported in any way, he wouldn't be getting downvoted. Notice how the people above talking about WebSockets aren't being downvoted because it's both real and specific enough to have an actual technical discussion?
marcosscriven 11y ago
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=javascript%20express%2C%20python%20django&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-1 https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=javascript%20express...
- pandler 11y ago
  Cool, it looks like most of the "python django" is in Russia and China.
halayli 11y ago
My money is still on the fact that you don't know either of these languages nor have you used them in production.

by jonesb6 11y ago

xngzng 11y ago

> that the momentum behind the Django ecosystem is as stagnant as ever. Django Rest Framework appeared on Thoughworks radar under Trial this May (https://www.thoughtworks.com/radar/languages-and-frameworks https://www.thoughtworks.com/radar/languages-and-frameworks), momentum is anything but stagnant.

dguaraglia 11y ago

If by "stagnant" you mean "mature enough that there's little need for constant refreshing of the libraries", then you are right. There's only so much you can do with a web framework, and only so many ways you can go around doing it. There's literally nothing you can do on the newest, flashiest (read: unstable, poorly documented, non-battle-tested) frameworks that you can't do using a combination of Django and Tornado/Twisted in half the LOCs and using mature libraries. The same could be said about Ruby on Rails, or even something like Spring Boot for Java or Spray/Scala. I don't mean to deflate innovation, but innovation for innovation's sake is rarely useful.

Daishiman 11y ago

I don't know what planet you're living in, but the Python ecosystem is about the most mature and modern I have ever seen for modern development in dynamically typed, interpreted languages with a strong web presence.. Take a look around and the equivalent libraries of the languages you mentioned. Honestly, the quality of similar libraries for the functionality that you need is lower, and the featureset smaller. Javascript suffers from all the problems of a "teenage" tech: immaturity, lack of established libs, poor documentation, and some astoundingly bad coding practices out in the wild. Clojure's ecosystem is very small, and has the same issues with code stability and lack of decent mainstream library alternatives. Erlang, though a great language, has some issues with its unfriendly ecosystem and a general lack of libraries for many common tasks. Go, while gaining serious momentum, still seems to suffer from a substantial lack of features to compete in the same rapid development niche that Python, Ruby and JS attempt to point to, although it was never meant for that role anyway.

ing33k 11y ago

unless you want to get downvoted , saying things about python/Django in HN is not a good idea .

acdha 11y ago
“saying things” is not a synonym for “trolling”. If those claims had been less vague and supported in any way, he wouldn't be getting downvoted. Notice how the people above talking about WebSockets aren't being downvoted because it's both real and specific enough to have an actual technical discussion?

marcosscriven 11y ago

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=javascript%20express%2C%20python%20django&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-1 https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=javascript%20express...

pandler 11y ago
Cool, it looks like most of the "python django" is in Russia and China.

halayli 11y ago

My money is still on the fact that you don't know either of these languages nor have you used them in production.