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Cable Robot Simulator [video]

261 points by alex_marchant 11y ago

jastanton 11y ago
Cool, it's the same concept as the NFL skycam! I wonder if there are any practical uses for it, say military or civilian training?
- lucb1e 11y ago
  Do you get sick from driving a car or riding a bus though? Because I guess you could make the experience to be exactly like that. It's supposed to feel like a normal, natural motion.
usaphp 11y ago
Somehow it reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-N3XDc-3QQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-N3XDc-3QQ
condiment 11y ago
Here's the press release from the Max Planck Institute: http://www.ipa.fraunhofer.de/en/cable-driven_parallel_robots.html http://www.ipa.fraunhofer.de/en/cable-driven_parallel_robots...
jameshart 11y ago
This seems like a poor fit for VR motion simulation - actual movement through space is generally unnecessary, you just need to gimbal the platform to simulate accelerations. Actual linear acceleration is of limited value in simulation because you can't maintain that acceleration indefinitely - you run out of room and have to apply an opposite acceleration, which can conflict with the simulation needs. On the other hand this looks more useful for something like movie making, to throw actors around in front of a greenscreen.
- udev 11y ago
  I agree that rotation should be enough for VR purposes, and linear translation of the subject is not strictly necessary. Any acceleration up to g = 9.81 m / s^2 can be easily simulated, and it can be maintained indefinitely. All you need to do is to rotate the subject so that the perceived acceleration is aligned with g, or keep it at an angle, to get a fraction of g. Interestingly, for VR you don't need to simulate velocity, as it cannot be perceived by the body. Flight simulators have been using this approach for decades now, and it works really well: http://arabiansupplychain.com//pictures/300x200/CAE-simulator.jpg http://arabiansupplychain.com//pictures/300x200/CAE-simulato... But this system looks to have the advantage of being able to simulate accelerations above g. PS: Is gimbal a verb now?
  - darkmighty 11y ago
    Not up to 1g acceleration, exactly 1g aceleration only (if the platform only rotates), with varying direction.
  - jessriedel 11y ago
    You can't do brief periods of weightlessness with rotations on a gimbal, or periods of larger than 1 g.
- darkmighty 11y ago
  Gimbals are limited to ||acceleration||=1g. I guess there are some elements you miss from that, like when a roller coaster starts to fall (you experience <1g), or when a car takes off (you experience >1g). Here you can provide a bit of both and also gimbal action. There's also rotation effects (which I don't know if are felt) that can be mitigated too and better jerk simulation (not only acceleration, but variation of acceleration). Actually if your whole simulation has ||aceleration||>1g you should be able to do it perfectly (save for jerk/rotation effects) with some large centrifuge: the rate of rotation of the large centrifuge dictates the "perceived gravity" and gimbals dictate the "perceived direction". In this sense it would be perfect if you could get a centrifuge with a gimbaled end in a 0g environment. Hey NASA, I have this one little idea for the ISS... :)
- ghgr 11y ago
  I've been working with full motion simulators for the past two years (I even rode that simulator last week at MPI) and I must say that this is plain wrong. This is actually a great fit for VR simulation (see below): > Actual linear acceleration is of limited value in simulation because... Linear acceleration is immensely useful for sudden accelerations. Image a sudden linear acceleration (e.g. a racing car accelerating). You cannot recreate this acceleration by suddenly rotating. The angular accelerations would ruin the experience. Rather, you make a linear movement, and THEN you rotate the simulator (if you need to sustain the acceleration). > you run out of room and have to apply an opposite acceleration, which can conflict with the simulation needs. wrong again. If you move the simulator at slow speed, you can actually come back to the optimal position and the subject does not notice it (washout filter [1]) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_simulator#Implementation_using_washout_filters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_simulator#Implementatio...
  - goshx 11y ago
    Would adding rotation to the seat allow for sustaining the acceleration?
    - lucb1e 11y ago
      The way I understand what he said (see quote below), yes it would. > you make a linear movement, and THEN you rotate the simulator (if you need to sustain the acceleration). I have zero experience with this though, I'm merely interpreting and copying what ghgr said.
      - darkmighty 11y ago
        That's right, and this system seems perfectly capable of that.
  - ljk 11y ago
    > Rather, you make a linear movement, and THEN you rotate the simulator (if you need to sustain the acceleration). Am I understanding this wrong or are you saying long accelerations can be achieved by accelerating, turn, accelerating, .... etc? Wouldn't the person wearing VR headset feel the turn?
- sllabres 11y ago
  NASA seems to think different. http://www.aviationsystemsdivision.arc.nasa.gov/facilities/vms/index.shtml http://www.aviationsystemsdivision.arc.nasa.gov/facilities/v... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhu_UldlP_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhu_UldlP_E (in motion...)
  - Animats 11y ago
    Yes, NASA Ames has had their huge Vertical Motion Simulator for many years. That has about 20 meters of travel in each axis. It used to have a Space Shuttle cockpit mounted; now it's mostly used with a helicopter cockpit. NASA's is a much heavier system, because it has to lug the whole cockpit around.
  - jameshart 11y ago
    For flight, the problem is that the only acceleration that really matters is variation in vertical acceleration. Linear acceleration can briefly simulate that, but it can't be sustained. That's a fundamental problem that can only be dealt with by creating that kind of massive vertical acceleration environment - even that will be limited in terms of how long it can simulate sustained > or < 1g. You can create sustained accelerations by spinning something round on the end of an arm, but there's always that pesky downward gravity vector that keeps getting added to everything, unless you build your simulator in orbit.
aresant 11y ago
I purchased a commercial motion simulator as part of research for a vr tech we're working on and while you can immediately see the potential, it's not quite there yet. Some resources to share If you buy a simulator - offsetting to the chair with the rift is a work in progress https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=7933 https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=7933 - and not currently supported in the Oculus SDK. I can't find the thread but Oculus has said that's a "future tech" goal. Excellent thread on currently available options / configurations - https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=1673 https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=1673 A great resource with a community of enthusiasts that have tried nearly every sim on the market (racing specific, but still the best) is here - http://www.isrtv.com/forums/ http://www.isrtv.com/forums/
eps 11y ago
If you like this, lookup "6DOF platform" - there's an active scene of people who tinker with home-made motion platforms, primarily for simulator games. Some very impressive stuff there, e.g. http://motionsim.blogspot.ch http://motionsim.blogspot.ch
- lotharbot 11y ago
  I would love to see one of these platforms that's capable enough to feel right when playing Descent. [0] https://youtu.be/rrUF8Dz84rE?t=329 https://youtu.be/rrUF8Dz84rE?t=329
beambot 11y ago
Cable Robots are generally a very interesting technology. I wrote a bit about them (eg. for 3D printing, as a crane, etc) a while back: http://www.hizook.com/blog/2014/07/15/stadium-sized-3d-printers-using-winch-robots-aka-cable-robots-or-rope-robots http://www.hizook.com/blog/2014/07/15/stadium-sized-3d-print...
eatonphil 11y ago
Hopefully not a completely ridiculous question, is there any chance cable technology like this could be used as public transportation in the future similar to in Pixar's Robots?
- vpribish 11y ago
  Come visit beautiful San Francisco! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_cable_car_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_cable_car_system I think the wires would get in each other's way if you had pods in the same volume.
  - eatonphil 11y ago
    Ah of course, that was silly of me. I guess I meant suspended cable travel.
    - Retric 11y ago
      Sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_lift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_lift or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondola_lift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondola_lift
      - eatonphil 11y ago
        You are right! But it is now apparent that the question I had in mind is completely different from the one I actually asked. nbadg caught on to what I meant which was more along the lines of: could suspended cable transportation be a feasible mode of public transportation in cities?
        AdamTReineke 11y ago
        Yes. The biggest benefit is very low ground footprint and highly predictable traffic flow. A few articles discuss it as a reasonable form of mass transit. http://urbanland.uli.org/infrastructure-transit/public-transit-takes-sky-cable-car-gondola/ http://urbanland.uli.org/infrastructure-transit/public-trans... http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/commute-by-gondola-kirkland-may-be-up-for-the-idea/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/commute-by-gondola-...
robodale 11y ago
Very fascinating, but I also feel left out. I get sick just by riding a Ferris wheel.
amdolan 11y ago
Looks a lot like University of Iowa's National Advanced Driving Simulator NADS-1 [1]. NADS-1 has an entire dome on tracks, hydraulics and a bunch of other cool stuff going on. I guess it's used mostly for research. [1] https://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/sim_nads1.php https://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/sim_nads1.php
earlyadapter 11y ago
This would actually be dope for flight training. As a student pilot there are some things like unusual attitudes training, that rely on motion to fool the senses.
audleman 11y ago
I want one. I'll replace the walls/stairs in my house with this and just zoom exactly where I need to go. Think of the space savings; I could mount my computer 6" from the ceiling!
tetraodonpuffer 11y ago
it looks really cool, however with cables wouldn't this limit the amount of "instant Gs" you can generate? it seems motion simulators based on pistons would be able to simulate better things like driving on a bumpy road and sudden changes of direction as there isn't the slack of the cable to take into account or the inertia of a large suspended mass (cables are heavy too) Still given enough space and light enough cables that support enough tension (to minimize slack) it seems this could be scaled up very cost effectively compared to other technologies to enable longer sustained accelerations
- njharman 11y ago
  > slack why cables are loaded at 1.5tons. Electric motors have incredible torque and those looked like some honking big motors.
kk3399 11y ago
looks like we are getting close to VR with some (unreal) experience
sandworm101 11y ago
All well and good with the standard little girl model, but what does this look like with ten fat disney tourists? What would the machinery look like to swing 10 or 50 times the weight? (Same question if this is to be used for flight simulators.) Is there a point at which linear hydraulic actuators are easier?
- hn9780470248775 11y ago
  > All well and good with the standard little girl model "The software developer Maria Lächele from the 8-person developers team at the Max-Planck Institute is seen amongst others as a passenger of the robot."
  - Nadya 11y ago
    Reading a bit too literally and presuming the worst intent behind the statement. It leads to better discussions when people assume the best possible intent unless the person later clarifies their intent. I don't think they meant "model" as in "attractive fashion model". "Standard model" is a thing among products. For example, they give out 3D glasses at the movie theater I visit. One-size-fits-all is the "standard model" but they have two sizes of booster seats. They have the "children model" and the "adult model". So let's throw the complete statement that you removed back in: >but what does this look like with ten fat disney tourists? So the standard model ("little girl" [sic] sized) works great. How does the "jumbo model" work for an obese population? I'll agree with the implicit sexism and infantilization behind the use of "little girl". Though I also refuse to ascribe sexist intent behind the word choice and I'm someone who cares about intent and not interpretation. One can always interpret the worst possible intent and find evil in everyone and every statement. Also yes, I'm aware that bad deeds can sometimes have good intentions. They were highlighting a physical trait (smallness). "Small woman" and "little woman" are awkward to say and imply dwarfism. "Woman" as a standalone fails to highlight the smallness. I'd personally use "petite woman" but that becomes awkward in conversation because I'm seemingly the only person who uses the word "petite" in adult context without referring to porn actresses or nude models. TL;DR: It works fine for the 105 lb~ model. How about the 350~ lb model?
  - 11y ago
TrevorJ 11y ago
The concern I have is that failures in the control software or mechanical failure would have grave consequences. Maybe that's a solved problem and the cable capstans have mechanical arrestors that kick in, etc but the setup looks inherently unstable unless under active computer control (due largely to the crossed cable attach points). This is quite a bit different than a more typical hydraulic setup where an unpowered/uncommanded state simply leads to the platform settling in a stable configuration. Having said that: I still want one. :D
- jonknee 11y ago
  You could make the floor foam blocks or a trampoline, but in concept it's very similar to the Skycam used for NFL games and they are very reliable. I've never heard of one coming down (and they have a lot more travel). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skycam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skycam
  - laxatives 11y ago
    There's certainly been instances of cameras coming down and having near misses with players and referees. Those cams weigh a lot and are moving at high speed as well. edit: quick search returns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPJ6rg_TTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPJ6rg_TTA
- irl_zebra 11y ago
  Around 25 seconds into the video you can see how thick the cable is. I would guess probably an inch thick. With regular wire rope, the breaking strength of that diameter would be in the neighborhood of 80,000lbs[1] with the safe load strength closer to 16,000lbs. I'm guessing with regular maintenance and checking, it would be exceedingly rare to have a mechanical failure. Additionally, the occupant is harnessed into the chair, bolted into what is essentially a spherical roll cage. Even with failure, I'm guessing there would be a crash but no serious injuries. [1] - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-rope-strength-d_1518.html http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-rope-strength-d_1518....
  - 11y ago
oskenso 11y ago
This could make for an interesting Disney ride!
- ljk 11y ago
  Anyone knows scalable it would be? To start, everyone would need a VR headset, not that amusement parks are short on cash
  - iridium127 11y ago
    with those same cables, they would probably be able to carry hundreds of people at the same time... just make the platform a bit bigger and maybe upgrade the winches.
- joliv 11y ago
  It _is_ a Disney ride! I've ridden on it—tons of fun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tours The technical description: > Star Tours utilizes hydraulic motion base cabins featuring six degrees of freedom, including the ability to move 35 degrees in the X-Y-Z plane. The simulator was patented as Advanced Technology Leisure Application Simulator (ATLAS), originally designed by Rediffusion Simulation[8] in Sussex, England, now owned by Thomson-CSF. The Rediffusion 'Leisure' simulator was originally developed for a much simpler show in Canada called "Tour of the Universe", where it featured a single entrance/exit door in the rear of the cabin and a video projector. The film is front-projected onto the screen from a 70 mm film projector located beneath the cockpit barrier. The Disneyland original has four simulators, while the shows in Tokyo Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, and WDW Disney's Hollywood Studio each have six motion bases.
jakobegger 11y ago
It's a holodeck!
Animats 11y ago
Multiple computer-controlled winch systems have been used for movie special effects for years. Here's a 2010 system test for a flying taxi, which shows the controller as well as the taxi.[1] Disney's Aladdin at Tuacahn Amphitheater has a magic carpet which flies out over the audience with two performers on it. That's done with four computer-controlled winches. The robot simulator looks like it's using the same winches Kirby's AFX uses for theatrical work. That's not surprising; few companies make high speed precision-controllable winches rated for human safety. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjM9leyQPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjM9leyQPc
jonah 11y ago
I didn't see any Yaw motion in this video. (Rotation about the Y axis.) Does it support it? Is it not necessary for the motions they're trying to induce? Would you have to make the seat rotate on the platform?
- networkjester 11y ago
  I believe with that cable configuration, Yaw motion isn't really possible. I'm sure it would help with motion programming with the VR, but perhaps true Yaw wouldn't be entirely necessary. Good questions though. For your last question, I do think that's the way they would need to add Yaw if desired. Otherwise more cables and/or a different configuration would be needed. As an example, check out the robocrane design from NIST: http://www.nist.gov/el/isd/gantry-2.cfm http://www.nist.gov/el/isd/gantry-2.cfm
- darkmighty 11y ago
  It says "freely programmable trajectory in six dimensions", and there are indeed six cables, so yes it's supported. But any rotation of that object is going to be limited of course.
- sounds 11y ago
  A motor under the platform that swivels the user, chair, and floor inside the cage would do it. But I agree with the other commenters that the video does not seem to demonstrate a yaw capability.
JDDunn9 11y ago
I'd like to know more about the winches, since they aren't made for constant use. They have planetary gears with very high gear ratios, which can overheat if used too long. I believe many linear actuators (with high gear ratios, used to lift beds/tvs) have ~20% duty cycle (use for 2 minutes requires 8 minutes of cool down).

261 points by alex_marchant 11y ago

Cool, it's the same concept as the NFL skycam! I wonder if there are any practical uses for it, say military or civilian training?

lucb1e 11y ago
Do you get sick from driving a car or riding a bus though? Because I guess you could make the experience to be exactly like that. It's supposed to feel like a normal, natural motion.

usaphp 11y ago

Somehow it reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-N3XDc-3QQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-N3XDc-3QQ

condiment 11y ago

Here's the press release from the Max Planck Institute: http://www.ipa.fraunhofer.de/en/cable-driven_parallel_robots.html http://www.ipa.fraunhofer.de/en/cable-driven_parallel_robots...

jameshart 11y ago

This seems like a poor fit for VR motion simulation - actual movement through space is generally unnecessary, you just need to gimbal the platform to simulate accelerations. Actual linear acceleration is of limited value in simulation because you can't maintain that acceleration indefinitely - you run out of room and have to apply an opposite acceleration, which can conflict with the simulation needs. On the other hand this looks more useful for something like movie making, to throw actors around in front of a greenscreen.

udev 11y ago
I agree that rotation should be enough for VR purposes, and linear translation of the subject is not strictly necessary. Any acceleration up to g = 9.81 m / s^2 can be easily simulated, and it can be maintained indefinitely. All you need to do is to rotate the subject so that the perceived acceleration is aligned with g, or keep it at an angle, to get a fraction of g. Interestingly, for VR you don't need to simulate velocity, as it cannot be perceived by the body. Flight simulators have been using this approach for decades now, and it works really well: http://arabiansupplychain.com//pictures/300x200/CAE-simulator.jpg http://arabiansupplychain.com//pictures/300x200/CAE-simulato... But this system looks to have the advantage of being able to simulate accelerations above g. PS: Is gimbal a verb now?
- darkmighty 11y ago
  Not up to 1g acceleration, exactly 1g aceleration only (if the platform only rotates), with varying direction.
- jessriedel 11y ago
  You can't do brief periods of weightlessness with rotations on a gimbal, or periods of larger than 1 g.
darkmighty 11y ago
Gimbals are limited to ||acceleration||=1g. I guess there are some elements you miss from that, like when a roller coaster starts to fall (you experience <1g), or when a car takes off (you experience >1g). Here you can provide a bit of both and also gimbal action. There's also rotation effects (which I don't know if are felt) that can be mitigated too and better jerk simulation (not only acceleration, but variation of acceleration). Actually if your whole simulation has ||aceleration||>1g you should be able to do it perfectly (save for jerk/rotation effects) with some large centrifuge: the rate of rotation of the large centrifuge dictates the "perceived gravity" and gimbals dictate the "perceived direction". In this sense it would be perfect if you could get a centrifuge with a gimbaled end in a 0g environment. Hey NASA, I have this one little idea for the ISS... :)
ghgr 11y ago
I've been working with full motion simulators for the past two years (I even rode that simulator last week at MPI) and I must say that this is plain wrong. This is actually a great fit for VR simulation (see below): > Actual linear acceleration is of limited value in simulation because... Linear acceleration is immensely useful for sudden accelerations. Image a sudden linear acceleration (e.g. a racing car accelerating). You cannot recreate this acceleration by suddenly rotating. The angular accelerations would ruin the experience. Rather, you make a linear movement, and THEN you rotate the simulator (if you need to sustain the acceleration). > you run out of room and have to apply an opposite acceleration, which can conflict with the simulation needs. wrong again. If you move the simulator at slow speed, you can actually come back to the optimal position and the subject does not notice it (washout filter [1]) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_simulator#Implementation_using_washout_filters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_simulator#Implementatio...
- goshx 11y ago
  Would adding rotation to the seat allow for sustaining the acceleration?
  - lucb1e 11y ago
    The way I understand what he said (see quote below), yes it would. > you make a linear movement, and THEN you rotate the simulator (if you need to sustain the acceleration). I have zero experience with this though, I'm merely interpreting and copying what ghgr said.
    - darkmighty 11y ago
      That's right, and this system seems perfectly capable of that.
- ljk 11y ago
  > Rather, you make a linear movement, and THEN you rotate the simulator (if you need to sustain the acceleration). Am I understanding this wrong or are you saying long accelerations can be achieved by accelerating, turn, accelerating, .... etc? Wouldn't the person wearing VR headset feel the turn?
sllabres 11y ago
NASA seems to think different. http://www.aviationsystemsdivision.arc.nasa.gov/facilities/vms/index.shtml http://www.aviationsystemsdivision.arc.nasa.gov/facilities/v... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhu_UldlP_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhu_UldlP_E (in motion...)
- Animats 11y ago
  Yes, NASA Ames has had their huge Vertical Motion Simulator for many years. That has about 20 meters of travel in each axis. It used to have a Space Shuttle cockpit mounted; now it's mostly used with a helicopter cockpit. NASA's is a much heavier system, because it has to lug the whole cockpit around.
- jameshart 11y ago
  For flight, the problem is that the only acceleration that really matters is variation in vertical acceleration. Linear acceleration can briefly simulate that, but it can't be sustained. That's a fundamental problem that can only be dealt with by creating that kind of massive vertical acceleration environment - even that will be limited in terms of how long it can simulate sustained > or < 1g. You can create sustained accelerations by spinning something round on the end of an arm, but there's always that pesky downward gravity vector that keeps getting added to everything, unless you build your simulator in orbit.

aresant 11y ago

I purchased a commercial motion simulator as part of research for a vr tech we're working on and while you can immediately see the potential, it's not quite there yet. Some resources to share If you buy a simulator - offsetting to the chair with the rift is a work in progress https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=7933 https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=7933 - and not currently supported in the Oculus SDK. I can't find the thread but Oculus has said that's a "future tech" goal. Excellent thread on currently available options / configurations - https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=1673 https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?t=1673 A great resource with a community of enthusiasts that have tried nearly every sim on the market (racing specific, but still the best) is here - http://www.isrtv.com/forums/ http://www.isrtv.com/forums/

eps 11y ago

If you like this, lookup "6DOF platform" - there's an active scene of people who tinker with home-made motion platforms, primarily for simulator games. Some very impressive stuff there, e.g. http://motionsim.blogspot.ch http://motionsim.blogspot.ch

lotharbot 11y ago
I would love to see one of these platforms that's capable enough to feel right when playing Descent. [0] https://youtu.be/rrUF8Dz84rE?t=329 https://youtu.be/rrUF8Dz84rE?t=329

beambot 11y ago

Cable Robots are generally a very interesting technology. I wrote a bit about them (eg. for 3D printing, as a crane, etc) a while back: http://www.hizook.com/blog/2014/07/15/stadium-sized-3d-printers-using-winch-robots-aka-cable-robots-or-rope-robots http://www.hizook.com/blog/2014/07/15/stadium-sized-3d-print...

eatonphil 11y ago

Hopefully not a completely ridiculous question, is there any chance cable technology like this could be used as public transportation in the future similar to in Pixar's Robots?

vpribish 11y ago
Come visit beautiful San Francisco! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_cable_car_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_cable_car_system I think the wires would get in each other's way if you had pods in the same volume.
- eatonphil 11y ago
  Ah of course, that was silly of me. I guess I meant suspended cable travel.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_lift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_lift or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondola_lift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondola_lift
    - eatonphil 11y ago
      You are right! But it is now apparent that the question I had in mind is completely different from the one I actually asked. nbadg caught on to what I meant which was more along the lines of: could suspended cable transportation be a feasible mode of public transportation in cities?
      - AdamTReineke 11y ago
        Yes. The biggest benefit is very low ground footprint and highly predictable traffic flow. A few articles discuss it as a reasonable form of mass transit. http://urbanland.uli.org/infrastructure-transit/public-transit-takes-sky-cable-car-gondola/ http://urbanland.uli.org/infrastructure-transit/public-trans... http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/commute-by-gondola-kirkland-may-be-up-for-the-idea/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/commute-by-gondola-...

robodale 11y ago

Very fascinating, but I also feel left out. I get sick just by riding a Ferris wheel.

amdolan 11y ago

Looks a lot like University of Iowa's National Advanced Driving Simulator NADS-1 [1]. NADS-1 has an entire dome on tracks, hydraulics and a bunch of other cool stuff going on. I guess it's used mostly for research. [1] https://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/sim_nads1.php https://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/sim_nads1.php

earlyadapter 11y ago

This would actually be dope for flight training. As a student pilot there are some things like unusual attitudes training, that rely on motion to fool the senses.

audleman 11y ago

I want one. I'll replace the walls/stairs in my house with this and just zoom exactly where I need to go. Think of the space savings; I could mount my computer 6" from the ceiling!

tetraodonpuffer 11y ago

it looks really cool, however with cables wouldn't this limit the amount of "instant Gs" you can generate? it seems motion simulators based on pistons would be able to simulate better things like driving on a bumpy road and sudden changes of direction as there isn't the slack of the cable to take into account or the inertia of a large suspended mass (cables are heavy too) Still given enough space and light enough cables that support enough tension (to minimize slack) it seems this could be scaled up very cost effectively compared to other technologies to enable longer sustained accelerations

njharman 11y ago
> slack why cables are loaded at 1.5tons. Electric motors have incredible torque and those looked like some honking big motors.

kk3399 11y ago

looks like we are getting close to VR with some (unreal) experience

sandworm101 11y ago

All well and good with the standard little girl model, but what does this look like with ten fat disney tourists? What would the machinery look like to swing 10 or 50 times the weight? (Same question if this is to be used for flight simulators.) Is there a point at which linear hydraulic actuators are easier?

hn9780470248775 11y ago
> All well and good with the standard little girl model "The software developer Maria Lächele from the 8-person developers team at the Max-Planck Institute is seen amongst others as a passenger of the robot."
- Nadya 11y ago
  Reading a bit too literally and presuming the worst intent behind the statement. It leads to better discussions when people assume the best possible intent unless the person later clarifies their intent. I don't think they meant "model" as in "attractive fashion model". "Standard model" is a thing among products. For example, they give out 3D glasses at the movie theater I visit. One-size-fits-all is the "standard model" but they have two sizes of booster seats. They have the "children model" and the "adult model". So let's throw the complete statement that you removed back in: >but what does this look like with ten fat disney tourists? So the standard model ("little girl" [sic] sized) works great. How does the "jumbo model" work for an obese population? I'll agree with the implicit sexism and infantilization behind the use of "little girl". Though I also refuse to ascribe sexist intent behind the word choice and I'm someone who cares about intent and not interpretation. One can always interpret the worst possible intent and find evil in everyone and every statement. Also yes, I'm aware that bad deeds can sometimes have good intentions. They were highlighting a physical trait (smallness). "Small woman" and "little woman" are awkward to say and imply dwarfism. "Woman" as a standalone fails to highlight the smallness. I'd personally use "petite woman" but that becomes awkward in conversation because I'm seemingly the only person who uses the word "petite" in adult context without referring to porn actresses or nude models. TL;DR: It works fine for the 105 lb~ model. How about the 350~ lb model?
- 11y ago

TrevorJ 11y ago

The concern I have is that failures in the control software or mechanical failure would have grave consequences. Maybe that's a solved problem and the cable capstans have mechanical arrestors that kick in, etc but the setup looks inherently unstable unless under active computer control (due largely to the crossed cable attach points). This is quite a bit different than a more typical hydraulic setup where an unpowered/uncommanded state simply leads to the platform settling in a stable configuration. Having said that: I still want one. :D

jonknee 11y ago
You could make the floor foam blocks or a trampoline, but in concept it's very similar to the Skycam used for NFL games and they are very reliable. I've never heard of one coming down (and they have a lot more travel). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skycam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skycam
- laxatives 11y ago
  There's certainly been instances of cameras coming down and having near misses with players and referees. Those cams weigh a lot and are moving at high speed as well. edit: quick search returns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPJ6rg_TTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPJ6rg_TTA
irl_zebra 11y ago
Around 25 seconds into the video you can see how thick the cable is. I would guess probably an inch thick. With regular wire rope, the breaking strength of that diameter would be in the neighborhood of 80,000lbs[1] with the safe load strength closer to 16,000lbs. I'm guessing with regular maintenance and checking, it would be exceedingly rare to have a mechanical failure. Additionally, the occupant is harnessed into the chair, bolted into what is essentially a spherical roll cage. Even with failure, I'm guessing there would be a crash but no serious injuries. [1] - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-rope-strength-d_1518.html http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-rope-strength-d_1518....
- 11y ago

oskenso 11y ago

This could make for an interesting Disney ride!

ljk 11y ago
Anyone knows scalable it would be? To start, everyone would need a VR headset, not that amusement parks are short on cash
- iridium127 11y ago
  with those same cables, they would probably be able to carry hundreds of people at the same time... just make the platform a bit bigger and maybe upgrade the winches.
joliv 11y ago
It _is_ a Disney ride! I've ridden on it—tons of fun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tours The technical description: > Star Tours utilizes hydraulic motion base cabins featuring six degrees of freedom, including the ability to move 35 degrees in the X-Y-Z plane. The simulator was patented as Advanced Technology Leisure Application Simulator (ATLAS), originally designed by Rediffusion Simulation[8] in Sussex, England, now owned by Thomson-CSF. The Rediffusion 'Leisure' simulator was originally developed for a much simpler show in Canada called "Tour of the Universe", where it featured a single entrance/exit door in the rear of the cabin and a video projector. The film is front-projected onto the screen from a 70 mm film projector located beneath the cockpit barrier. The Disneyland original has four simulators, while the shows in Tokyo Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, and WDW Disney's Hollywood Studio each have six motion bases.

jakobegger 11y ago

It's a holodeck!

Animats 11y ago

Multiple computer-controlled winch systems have been used for movie special effects for years. Here's a 2010 system test for a flying taxi, which shows the controller as well as the taxi.[1] Disney's Aladdin at Tuacahn Amphitheater has a magic carpet which flies out over the audience with two performers on it. That's done with four computer-controlled winches. The robot simulator looks like it's using the same winches Kirby's AFX uses for theatrical work. That's not surprising; few companies make high speed precision-controllable winches rated for human safety. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjM9leyQPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjM9leyQPc

jonah 11y ago

I didn't see any Yaw motion in this video. (Rotation about the Y axis.) Does it support it? Is it not necessary for the motions they're trying to induce? Would you have to make the seat rotate on the platform?

networkjester 11y ago
I believe with that cable configuration, Yaw motion isn't really possible. I'm sure it would help with motion programming with the VR, but perhaps true Yaw wouldn't be entirely necessary. Good questions though. For your last question, I do think that's the way they would need to add Yaw if desired. Otherwise more cables and/or a different configuration would be needed. As an example, check out the robocrane design from NIST: http://www.nist.gov/el/isd/gantry-2.cfm http://www.nist.gov/el/isd/gantry-2.cfm
darkmighty 11y ago
It says "freely programmable trajectory in six dimensions", and there are indeed six cables, so yes it's supported. But any rotation of that object is going to be limited of course.
sounds 11y ago
A motor under the platform that swivels the user, chair, and floor inside the cage would do it. But I agree with the other commenters that the video does not seem to demonstrate a yaw capability.

JDDunn9 11y ago

I'd like to know more about the winches, since they aren't made for constant use. They have planetary gears with very high gear ratios, which can overheat if used too long. I believe many linear actuators (with high gear ratios, used to lift beds/tvs) have ~20% duty cycle (use for 2 minutes requires 8 minutes of cool down).