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The future is here it's just not evenly distributed, as they say. Besides a bubble either bursting or continuing to inflate it seems likely that mature tech co
by nugget 11y ago
The future is here it's just not evenly distributed, as they say. Besides a bubble either bursting or continuing to inflate it seems likely that mature tech companies like Yelp, Twitter, Salesforce, and others will realize they can't afford to keep paying their average developer $250,000/year and relocate people to cheaper second tier cities. Yes, you need superstars wherever they are but instead of treating everyone like a superstar can you differentiate between mission-critical and non-mission-critical roles and locate them appropriately? I haven't seen this happen yet but it makes sense that at some point it would, due to the diminishing quality of life in the bay area. Or do they wait for the capital markets to turn on them before doing this?
- browseatwork 11y agoBy average developer do you mean in terms of general deveoper skill or in terms of average salary? I'd be surprised that even that the companies you list, the average salary for developers is 250k. And I'd be even more surprised if it's the median salary.
- Patrick_Devine 11y agoIt's close to that when you factor in benefits and perks. That said, proximity has a lot going for it, and software is a high margin business. I don't see companies moving away from the Bay Area any time soon, and I don't see developers salaries falling soon either.
- browseatwork 11y agoIt might be, but it's still hard to believe. Has anyone written a blog post with some reasonable napkin math? Some breakdown of a prominent company of engineers by salary range? Fully agree, a lot of software will be entrenched in the Bay for decades to come.
- pm24601 11y agoMaybe look at glassdoor: http://www.glassdoor.com/ http://www.glassdoor.com/ ?
- johnrob 11y agoI think about this quite often. Perhaps a more effective argument for this effort is social impact (rather than financial savings). The tech industry is reeking havoc upon lower income earners by rapidly increasing the cost of living. Ironically, many of these companies are social minded and have programs to assist those in need from a day-to-day perspective (i.e. free meal, cleanup projects, etc etc). However, the elephant in the room is that they've done far more damage than is possible to rectify via charity. Which comes back to the social argument: if tech companies proactively migrate these highly paid tech workers to other municipalities, it could significantly reduce the pressure on rent and home prices. The initiative could be sold as a massive goodwill effort to the local community. And, of course, the employees who willingly move away would get rewarded with a much lower cost of living.
- gorkemyurt 11y agoThis is an option right now, almost all big tech companies have offices in Seattle Austin or Boulder. People just want to stay in San Francisco.. Its a great city to live in both when you are a fresh collage hire and if you are trying to raise a child.
- johnrob 11y agoCompanies aren't proactively encouraging employees to migrate though. The employee has to ask for a approval, and if granted it's generally considered a favor.
- Reedx 11y agoI assume you meant not a great city if you're trying to raise a child? Between the insane rent and child care costs... it's just not worth it. ~$4k/mo for a 2 bedroom and then you're looking at $1k+/mo for one kid in daycare. I've been living in SF for the past five years and despite how much I like it, I'll probably move out with a baby on the way.
- sawthat 11y agoI have two kids and I live in SF. I'm just a regular old developer too. For day care you should probably be budgeting more like $2k, FYI. I live in the outer sunset and I own my home.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y agoAs long as big tech makes big bucks in the Bay Area, the money's gonna want their labor within arm's reach. Remote work has its place but for most companies you can't have your cake and eat it - remote is either all or nothing. That leaves local employment. Paying a quarter million to a developer seems like a lot, until you compare the efficiency gains of keeping everyone in one place. I think the real issue with Silicon Valley's future isn't financial, it's cultural. I believe it is rapidly becoming a second Wall Street: the place where young professionals tough it out for a few years until their bank accounts and resumes are good enough for a more fulfilling job in a cheaper and more preferable location without the cost and the crazy. The Bay Area is a great place to make money, but is it truly a great place to live? Strip away the nice weather and trendy restaurants, and it's hard not to notice how much of the communitarian counterculture that peaked in the 60s has been, like so much of the world today, eaten by software.
- rconti 11y agoI think it's a fantastic place to live, albeit expensive. I don't go to trendy restaurants, but there's a lot to do in the area. Lots of hiking/running/mountain biking opportunities. Don't undervalue the nice weather; it's a lot less enjoyable to do most outdoor activities when the weather is crappy or unpredictable. Easy access to the ocean. Relatively easy access to the mountains, assuming they get snow again. I'm a motorsport enthusiast; lots of great racetracks and mountain roads for cars+motorcycles.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y agoWhile I don't disagree with you, I do want to make clear for the sake of argument that those mountains were there before the microchip, and they'll remain for a very long time. My point is that a big money monoculture is a great way to homogenize and wash out a cosmopolitan culture. The homeless might remain, but the hippies are long gone...
- Decade 11y agoThe hippies are starting to die of old age, anyway. San Francisco is a city defined by successive invasions.
- methodover 11y agoI feel like Oakland is the place to be right now. It's super convenient to the city. BART isn't the worst thing in the world -- it gets you where you need to go. Housing prices aren't too bad (I'm paying $1k for a 1 bedroom). Traffic isn't too bad. Office prices aren't bad either -- the startup I work for got a great deal on real estate.
- cpncrunch 11y agoPerhaps the low property prices are due to the high crime rates?
- roflchoppa 11y agoI'm down for high crime if it keeps the yuppies at bay.
- cpncrunch 11y agoReally? You don't give a shit about personal safety or your possessions? I live in a (practically) zero crime area that has no yuppies and is very cheap. It's nowhere near SFO :)
- Kalium 11y agoThe parts of Oakland near BART are either not that cheap or Fruitvale levels of get-shot-for-not-being-poor.
- krakensden 11y agoYou are nuts. Crime in east oakland is almost entirely "poor people vs poor people".
- Kalium 11y agoI was exaggerating for effect. Parts of east Oakland are definitely the kind of place where you might get mugged for looking like a techie and carrying a laptop.
- ido 11y agopaying their average developer $250,000/year Are these really the kinds of salaries you get in SF/SV?
- browseatwork 11y agoSome people do but they are expectational and not average. It'd be interesting to know but I don't think there is good data. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,31.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-eng...
- joncooper 11y agoNo, but the prevailing myth is part of what a previous commenter referred to as the area becoming the new Wall Street. All the carpetbagging MBA types I'm acquainted with who would've gone to NYC/London in the go-go mortgage bubble days are here now. It's the logical place for a talented young person with hustle to go and try to get some.
- dclowd9901 11y agoTo anyone who doubts this direction, come to Portland, aka Bay Area 2. While you're here, ask local realtors how many homes sold to Californians in the last year.
- technoir 11y agoIt rains all year in Portland-- and it's cold. Artisanal is just another word for amateur. Wages are low. This is bad advice -- do not move here.
- dclowd9901 11y agoWasn't advising, just stating the facts: people are coming here from the Bay Area in droves.
- ilyanep 11y agoI know brilliant people who live 5 to a 2br in SF despite being all on Tech salaries. As long as people think that this is the living arrangement they want, companies will be able to get away with hiring people in a housing shortage here.