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Apple Speeds Up Electric-Car Work
- 6d6b73 11y agoWill it have Retina Windshield?
- aqwwe 11y agoI don't know, but you probably won't be able to put groceries from some stores in that car... unless said stores shell out 30% or something crazy.
- pragone 11y agoWanna give a non-paywalled synopsis for those of us without a WSJ subscription? Edit: Mass-reply: Thanks all! Learn something new every day. For those looking for the same thing, go here, click first link. Should bypass the paywall: https://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fapple-speeds-up-electric-car-work-1442857105 https://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Fa...
- melling 11y agoYou can read it: https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/hacker-news-faq-1-how-do-i-read-an-article-behind-a-paywall/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/hacker-news-faq-1-ho...
- uptown 11y agohttps://www.google.com/search?q=Apple+Speeds+Up+Electric-Car+Work https://www.google.com/search?q=Apple+Speeds+Up+Electric-Car...
- doughj3 11y agoGoogle the URL and access it from search results and the paywall disappears: https://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fapple-speeds-up-electric-car-work-1442857105 https://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Fa...
- nimbuscoder 11y agoFor some reason the article itself fails to load (only WSJ page w/ comments). FYI for anyone running into issues: Apple News works for me.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- trca 11y agoPro-tip: You can generally take any paywall blocked article, copy the URL into the Google search bar and click the first-result to get a non-paywall blocked version. Works for NYTimes, WSJ and a few others I can't remember.
- marcosscriven 11y agoBookmarklet? javascript:window.location="https://www.google.com/search?q="+window.location https://www.google.com/search?q="+window.location
- zodiakzz 11y agoOr better yet:- javascript:window.location="https://www.google.com/url?q="+window.location https://www.google.com/url?q="+window.location
- randcraw 11y agoLovely idea, if only it worked for WSJ... Not in Firefox or Chrome on my Macs. Nor in private/incognito mode.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ShakataGaNai 11y agotldr: Shipping something by 2019, hopefully. Also per the other comments saying "dump the link into google". You can fake it with something like https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/referer-control/hnkcfpcejkafcihlgbojoidoihckciin?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/referer-control/hn...
- kaffeemitsahne 11y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989
- deegles 11y agoSide question... when we use the Google search workaround, is Google paying WSJ for the view?
- lftl 11y agoNot as far as I know. It's basically a compromise after sites began implementing paywalls, but then complaining when Google would stop listing the paywalled content. As long as a user coming from Google got to read the full text of the destination page for free, Google agreed to continue listing the site.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ShakataGaNai 11y agoColbert just had Tim Cook on his show (this past Tuesday) and put him on the spot about this very topic. Maybe related?
- aaronbrethorst 11y agoNo. Cook was on Colbert to talk about the new iPhones, iPads, and Apple TV.
- BinaryIdiot 11y agoI can't imagine so. It's in the news so he probably knew he would mention it. They're not going to kick into spending billions because a talk show host asked them a question about a secret project. Though if that was the case we'd have to try and get Tim Cook on more shows! :)
- jonknee 11y agoThat was mentioned in the article: > Asked last week by late-night talk-show host Stephen Colbert about Apple’s interest in a driverless car, Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook said: “We look at a number of things along the way, and we decide to really put our energies in a few of them.”
- greentree9612 11y agoInstant douchebag detector. Even more accurate than the BMW logo.
- inmyunix 11y agosurely there are people here who personally know someone on the project...
- hkmurakami 11y agoApple employees are contract bound to not discuss work on even the most mundane of product updates. As friends, we respect their obligations (though we do give them a hard time by sarcastically badgering them about upcoming updates)
- nemo44x 11y agoEven within the company they are. I was speaking with 2 different groups at the same time from Apple and they had to ask me certain questions about their particular projects secretly while the other group was in the room. I had an NDA so I could know both sides but I could not discuss one groups project with the other.
- burger_moon 11y agoIt's surprising how well Apple does considering the lack of transparency within their company (or perceived transparency from my pov as an outsider). I wonder if this can cause an issue when they begin to get into building products (like cars) that need a high safety factor?
- Splines 11y agoApple is historically very secretive, no reason why that shouldn't continue to be the case. Other than who's getting hired I doubt you will learn more.
- sailfast 11y agoHearing this, I have to wonder why Steve Jobs bothered designing a headquarters and talking about collaboration and having spaces to interact with others - moments of inspiration, unplanned discussions etc. I would be very cautious talking about any of the problems I was trying to solve with my colleagues if I knew I might breach an NDA and be fired. Culturally, is there some sort of understanding / internal guide rails on this, or do you just kinda hope you don't screw up?
- jbob2000 11y agoI am very interested in what this car will look and behave like. Until Tesla, automobile interface design was pretty stagnant; Knobs and switches for everything! Apple has been very focused on virtual interfaces lately, I wonder what their return to physical will look like.
- Splines 11y agoKnobs and switches are not a bad thing when you need to keep your eyes on the road.
- toomuchtodo 11y agoWhich of course, isn't necessary when the vehicle drives itself.
- msandford 11y agoI'm not sure I'd trade a very good, time tested interface for something that's both new and ostensibly worse in some ways, just because that new, worse way can now be accommodated. That's like throwing away your physical keyboard for an on-screen keyboard because your company has adjusted their expectations downwards on your productivity. Sure you might be able to make it work, but that doesn't mean an on-screen keyboard is superior to a physical one.
- burger_moon 11y agoFor me, I find myself sitting at a stoplight with my hand rested on the volume and seek buttons/knobs while I look around at stuff. It's nice to be able to do both without having to hover your arm and look at a screen. Even more so when the road isn't totally smooth (pressing the wrong button is sometimes more annoying than not being able to quickly locate it). Of course everyone has different preferences and that's why they sell cars in more colors than just black.
- Splines 11y agoTrue enough - at that point you'd get rid of nearly all UI. All that's left amounts to a charging station for your iTablet.
- melling 11y agoSome sites are reporting that 600 people are working on the project and they will be tripling that number to 1800 people: http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/09/21/apple-has-target-ship-date-of-2019-for-electric-car-project-but-it-wont-be-self-driving---report http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/09/21/apple-has-target-s... [Update] Actually, the WSJ also reported. Guess other sites are reprinting.
- weinzierl 11y agoEven 1800 people working on the project wouldn't indicate that Apple takes the project seriously. The number of BMW employees in R&D at the headquarter in Munich is about 20000. There are another 10000 contractors working onsite. This are the numbers for R&D only, not including production. The numbers also don't include the employees of the numerous suppliers. In addition to that: BMW is an established car manufacturer. They don't need to develop a car from scratch. BMW is one of the smaller car manufacturers, I don't have numbers for VW or Toyota.
- aetherson 11y agoI think it would indicate that Apple takes the project seriously. Apple has 115,0000 employees altogether, but I'm pretty sure that includes vast numbers of people in the Apple Stores. Certainly it's not going to put together a 30,000 person R&D group. Now, maybe it means that Apple is kidding itself about its ability to make a good electric car. But Tesla didn't have 30,000 people in R&D.
- melling 11y agoI'm really at a loss as to why you would compare them to BMW and not Tesla. At this stage it looks like they are in line with an early Tesla. http://www.statista.com/statistics/314768/number-of-tesla-employees/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/314768/number-of-tesla-em...
- weinzierl 11y agoFair enough, Tesla would have been a better benchmark. I wanted to point out the huge R&D effort a car company has to undertake even to stay relevant. We are not even talking about the amount of innovation Apple or Tesla are expected to bring to the table. Another difference between Tesla and Apple is that Tesla has strong partners in the traditional auto industry, namely Toyota and Daimler.
- ssharp 11y agoIt's interesting to see new entries into such an established and manufacturing-heavy industry. Tesla had a fairly slow and methodical strategy, that they're still executing on before they can really hit a mass audience (I'd say the Model 3 is the next evolution in that). Apple has not, at least since Jobs took over again, really been slow and methodical in entering big markets. However, with the iPod, iPhone, and iPad, they were the first to try and align those device types with a mass audience that hadn't really been addressed yet. With cars, that audience has been well addressed for over a century! I'm curious to find out what price range Apple is coming in at, what makes the Apple car better than alternatives, and how/where they're going to manufacture it at a cost similar to competitors.
- aik 11y agoI would guess they're specifically targeting the brand new market of autonomous cars specifically. Edit: Nevermind, it sounds like it will not be autonomous starting out, so they really are entering the mainstream car market. Maybe the same thing is happening that happened with phones: Apple software on other phones sucked, just like Apple software in existing cars sucks. It's ambitious, but they have the resources and the market is clearly ripe for disruption... why not.
- wiremine 11y ago> Apple has not, at least since Jobs took over again, really been slow and methodical in entering big markets. Depends on how you look at it: - They've been fairly slow to enter the TV market. - Homekit is out there but hasn't received a lot of attention in recent keynotes. - Healthkit and related medical technology isn't something they have been extremely quick on.
- davidw 11y agoThere's an old thing, from Bob Young, founder of Redhat, about proprietary software being like a car with the hood welded shut. Perhaps the latter will actually become reality.
- agumonkey 11y agoLet's hope that for once, Apple won't divert the market into its distortion field. Or ... maybe it will just be a different shade of proprietary.
- arnarbi 11y agoThis might already be the case. See for example http://www.wired.com/2015/02/new-high-tech-farm-equipment-nightmare-farmers/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/new-high-tech-farm-equipment-ni...
- ccozan 11y agoThis is a story in itself, should be submitted. But in the end, farming will go fully robotic. In contrast with consumer cars, which will always require a human driver.
- blazespin 11y ago> In contrast with consumer cars, which will always require a human driver. Always is a long time, brother.
- PirateDave 11y agoThis was submitted previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9414211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9414211
- tantalor 11y agoI would gleefully welcome that! I cringe every time I have to pry open a breaker box, car hood, or wireless router config.
- gniv 11y agoThis is fantastic news. I wish more companies would get into this. Google, Facebook, Microsoft. Every company that has a ton of cash should consider doing it. Tesla proved that it's viable, so the hard work has been done. And building an electric car from scratch is not nearly as daunting as an ICE car. The car companies are heavily incentivized to not do it, so to me it's a great opportunity to get in early in a high-growth industry.
- blazespin 11y agoMicrosoft would be crazy to get into this. They have enough to do right now with fixing their business.
- msie 11y agoI wish that some companies would get into making cheaper, smaller, better medical diagnostic devices. That would be revolutionary in treating people because the body is still a black box right now. Or treating age-related diseases because it affects so many people, not just the patient.
- Tiktaalik 11y agoThis seems like a weird market for Apple to be pursuing because they’re such a consumer oriented company, but it seems likely that the future of transportation will be less oriented around individual car ownership. Additionally there’s a good argument to be made that we hit “peak car” several years ago, so consumer oriented automobiles may not be a real growth industry. I’d seriously question any business plan that assumes that the transportation mode share of cars, especially individually owned cars, will be greater than it is now. Maybe I’m thinking too long term here.
- blazespin 11y agoNot at all. By the time Apple gets any traction, this indeed may be the reality. That being said, people will always want to travel in style, whether they own the car or not. Think black car versus beaten up taxi. Apple wants to be the luxury brand intersected with technology. Who else does that as well as they do? Also, as per below, Apple's model of making things which can't be serviced by the owner fits the idea of no ownership. Finally, this new business model is going to obliterate all the old car makers that can't evolve fast enough. When significant disruption vectors clearly exist that can only be leveraged by the extremely well capitalized... well, this is really a no brainer for Apple. The only really question is, can Tim Cook create the tech? Google is struggling with it and they are by far the most skillful at AI. In the end though, we'll all be better off with Apple in the race than out of it.
- Tiktaalik 11y agoApple is getting more into services with Apple Music, so maybe Apple Car as an automated car service isn't so unreasonable.
- untog 11y agoApple wants to be the luxury brand intersected with technology. Who else does that as well as they do? Honestly, in terms of car manufacturers, I think there are a lot who do luxury better than Apple. Agreed their technology intersection isn't so great, but I'd rather own a BMW outfitted with Apple software than an Apple car.
- mortenjorck 11y agoThe more real this becomes, the more it starts to feel like the R&D sprawl of the Michael Spindler years. Yet it's not: This categorically isn't sprawl because it's focused on one hugely ambitious thing, and unlike the Apple of the early 90s, even if Apple literally puts ten billion dollars into this project and it fails, they come out with 190 billion left to continue running a successful consumer electronics business. And if it succeeds, of course, Apple becomes a major player in a socio-technological revolution for the third time.
- jreed91 11y agoI'd recommend listening to this podcast from Horace Dediu about how apple can differentiate themselves. http://www.asymco.com/2015/03/11/the-critical-path-143-moving-parts/#disqus_thread http://www.asymco.com/2015/03/11/the-critical-path-143-movin...
- 127001brewer 11y agoI have a hard time believing that Apple would manufacture an electric car, especially one, according to the article, that had an initial design resembling a minivan. It's well known that Jonathan Ive and Marc Newson are "car guys"[1], so perhaps it will be a vehicle similar to the Cube[2] - meaning it will have a very low production run - while the underlying technologies, such the batteries, are sold to other manufacturers. 1: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-co... 2: http://www.macworld.com/article/1153341/cube_10thanniversary.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1153341/cube_10thanniversary...
- seiji 11y agoNot just some casual "car guys" — Eddy Cue is on the board of directors for Ferrari.
- leeleelee 11y agoThe old Apple would set out to create a paradigm shift in how humans travel and view transportation (instead of just jumping on the EV bandwagon).
- jakobegger 11y agoThe more I hear about Apple making a car, the more it seems inevitable. Apple's revenue is 180 billion dollars. If they enter a new market, it has to be big. How many high margin billion dollar industries are there? The entire watch market is just around $50 billion dollars a year. If Apple wants to continue growing like it did in the past, the watch is a distraction. They need to aim for something much bigger. Besides the financial reasons, I think it's the perfect time to break into the market. The switch to electric motors levels the playing field, giving newcomers an edge if they can move fast. But the most important part is the integration of all the systems in the car, most importantly the digital user interface. Todays cars have horrible interfaces. Manufacturers are too busy covering every possible niche with dozens of models, which makes it impossible for them to make a single great car. And even if they tried, they are too dependent on component suppliers to create a single, integrated experience of the kind Apple does. There are two questions I wonder about: 1. How will Apple be able to make use of their experience in electronics when they move to a completely new industry? 2. What are the technical tricks Apple has up their sleeve? The iPod had hard drives and the click wheel, the iPhone had multitouch and a SoC that enabled a real browser, the watch had force sensitivity, haptic feedback, and a pulse meter. What will the car have?
- heimatau 11y agoSpeaking of a high margin billion dollar market, I'm surprised Apple doesn't get into high speed fiber. Maybe Apple feels they are mostly product development, idk.
- toomuchtodo 11y agoLast mile fiber is extremely capital intensive and not that profitable.
- afarrell 11y agoAnd attempting to make it profitable would hurt their brand. Think about how much people hate Comcast and TWC.
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- kaolinite 11y agoEven though it's hard to imagine Apple making a car, there is an awful lot of smoke around this. There has to be a fire somewhere. Lots of people are wondering how Apple can differentiate in the car market - I think (surprisingly) it comes down to price. Few people may remember this, but when Apple announced the iPad, people were shocked at how cheap it was. People knew the iPad was coming and were predicting it would start at $1000, easily. It cost $500. Leaving out driverless car tech, which I'm not sure whether Apple will have ready for launch, I think the Apple Car will look and function like a $100,000 car - but will cost significantly less. Say, half the price. Ive, in a recent interview, spoke about how he hated so many cars on the road. Not because they were cheap, but because they were poorly designed and put together with such little care. I think, unless he's gone off the deep end into the luxury market (which he very well may have!) he would want to produce a car that is really great - but still affordable enough that lots of people will be able to afford it[1]. All of that being said, and no matter how much Apple cares about the mass market, Apple will want to keep their high margins. They'll need to bring down manufacturing costs considerably. However, if anyone can do it, it's Tim Cook. He's well known for being a wizard at managing supply chains. Perhaps it'll be their first product assembled entirely by robots, who knows. We'll see what happens but if Apple are able to produce a very high quality car at a reasonable price, I suspect that it will be extremely disruptive. In the UK at least, pretty much every car under £30,000 is utter garbage. I'd love it if Apple could change that. [1] I suspect, as with Apple Watch, there will also be a high-end version of an Apple Car. It will probably have the same functionality (i.e. it won't just be a super-car) but will have extras, like a Hermès leather interior. I, for one, look forward to customising a car like a new Macbook - current car customisation screens are a pain (besides Tesla, actually, theirs isn't too bad).
- sixQuarks 11y agoI think Apple has jumped the shark. They're venturing into areas where they are going to get swamped down, lose tons of money, lose focus. Without the vision of Steve Jobs, I'm afraid they don't have what it takes to pull this off.
- worik 11y agoPaywalled
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]