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U.S. Soldiers Told to Ignore Afghan Allies’ Abuse of Boys
- sidcool 11y agoIt's a sad world we live in. Looks like countries who ban stuff the most, have the most offenders...
- simonh 11y agoBuses in London used to have signs saying 'No Spitting'. They don't have them anymore, but not because it's now OK to spit on buses. You don't make rules against things that nobody does.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- afarrell 11y agoThis has been known since 2009. This US Army Human Terrain Team report is interesting reading, if you find strange & violent forms of misogyny and pederasty morbidly fascinating https://info.publicintelligence.net/HTT-PashtunSexuality.pdf https://info.publicintelligence.net/HTT-PashtunSexuality.pdf """ Another example of cultural misinterpretations of Islamic tenants, bent to support homosexuality over heterosexuality, comes from a U.S. Army medic completing a year-long tour in a rural area of Kandahar province.8 She and her male colleagues were approached by a local gentleman seeking advice on how his wife could become pregnant. When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked “How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.” """
- coldtea 11y ago>She and her male colleagues were approached by a local gentleman seeking advice on how his wife could become pregnant. When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked “How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong. The dialogue sounds fishy and constructed to me. Local "gentlemen" surely know the procedure to "get pregnant" and have managed to procreate just as good as anywhere else in the world in the last 30 centuries without asking western medics...
- eru 11y agoOh, hang out on reddit.com/r/sex or /r/relationship, and you'll see that people come up with the strangest questions. (Might still be fake, of course. But I wouldn't bet on it.)
- okasaki 11y agoThere's a lot of fake posts on r/sex and r/relationships too.
- bane 11y agoYou'd be surprised what people without access to education on procreation believe.
- jscheel 11y agoRemember not to place these men in the same socio-economic and cultural categories you grew up in. This comes from the same culture that believes it is not homosexual to penetrate another man (receiving is what makes you effeminate to them). IIRC, this was the same for pederasty in ancient Greece.
- afarrell 11y agoI believe Rome too. I've wondered for a while if this is a long holdover from the short-lived Alexandrian empire.
- stonetomb 11y agoYoung boys brought to police outposts were quite common - it was a disgusting practice, though in the parade of despicable acts by all sides you became numb. Most of my memories are hazy at best, but at times something I see, hear, or smell finds it's way through the fog and I become lost reliving moments. Thanks for posting, it's good to reflect from time to time.
- 4loop 11y agoGay child abuse happens outside of Catholicism?
- erikb 11y ago"Afghan soldiers told to ignore American Allies' eating pork" Well, reading this you might think "how can that compare to raping boys? Boys are human beings and human beings have rights, just like you and me? But at the same time a Muslim may consider refusing to eat pork a law by god which is way higher than anything considering humans. The point I try to make is this: In an intercultural environment you need to accept the other one doing things you consider immoral. Otherwise there will be no cooperation at all. You must not judge. We all know that and when we talk about it we think about clothes, how to say hello, and kinds of food. But if you really want to achieve important cooperation you also need to consider points like this. That's the tough part, accepting these things that are really undiscussable in your culture. In an intercultural environment they should be. Now please, don't just downvote. Write a comment. Thanks.
- adrianN 11y agoSo were does cultural acceptance stop? If it were common not to rape boys but to eat babies after torturing them to tenderize the meat, should we also be accepting of that? There has to be a point where we draw the line. Most people here I think would agree that rape is on the other side of that line.
- rgbrenner 11y agoJust to be completely impartial, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was agreed to by Afghanistan and the US in 1948. http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ Rape violates several of those rights.. while eating pork violates none of those rights. So there is a line that was already drawn years ago.. and rape is clearly on the other side of it.
- erikb 11y agoI love your first question. How many lives can be saved right now and in the next X years just because you achieve this cooperation? How many things the other side has to accept from you that they consider really bad? Do you help the boys by not agreeing to cooperate and going home or do you help them more by accepting what happens and providing medical/psychological help afterwards? How many of them are even like that? Maybe most of them also disagree with raping boys but somehow can't enforce it? Can you even choose to not cooperate or will the people above you not allow it? It is very complex and should not be answered in general. Sometimes even every decision is bad. How many of them are even like that? Maybe most of them also disagree with raping boys but somehow can't enforce it? I'm happy that you open up for that question, because that's really the point. When should we stop? Thanks!
- cup 11y agoThe sad irony here is that the Taliban gained a lot of public support for abolishing this practice, and with the international communities diminishing engagement, the Taliban is set to return and gain more grass rooots support for putting this practice down again.
- crpatino 11y agoHas to make you wonder if the Taliban have not been the "good guys" from the very beginning?
- garrettgrimsley 11y agoOr do people not neatly fit into little boxes marked "Good" and "Bad?"
- newjersey 11y agoThe Taliban allegedly destroyed poppy fields. The Taliban also destroyed Buddhist monuments. You're right. People do not fit into boxes of good and evil.
- cmdkeen 11y agoWell except for their killing of homosexuals, repression of women and their purges of historical artefacts deemed un-Islamic.
- LoSboccacc 11y agoeh, memory is such a short and controversial thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqWjJdXKIXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqWjJdXKIXA mind you, there is no such thing as good guys, the groups which we don't pay to kill the others are generally pictured as the bad guys by the media. That's what makes the Syria situation so hairy, for example. which one are the good guys to help? There are terrifying claims on both sides by now, because at the beginning there wasn't an interest on helping one specific group so no one got special media treatment.
- lawnchair_larry 11y ago"The one American service member who was punished in the investigation that followed was Major Brezler, who had sent the email warning about Mr. Jan, his lawyers said. In one of Major Brezler’s hearings, Marine Corps lawyers warned that information about the police commander’s penchant for abusing boys might be classified." We seem to have a classification problem.
- 6d0debc071 11y agoThings might have gone better if they'd been told to ignore drugs instead.
- 6d0debc071 11y agoI honestly don't understand why this was down-voted. The planting of opium formed a major part of the Afghan economy - roughly 50%[1] of their GDP in fact - and outlawing parts of that economy is both expensive - the US spent $7.6 billion trying to stop it[2] - and likely to alienate the people who you rely on for intelligence. That doesn't mean that the intelligence will stop coming, it's worse than that. It means it won't be reliable. The trouble, when you get into this sort of application of force, is that you end up being nothing more than an enforcer for the local grievances. They'll tell you where something is when they want you to squash it - and in the mean time, because it is illegal, people profit off it who you don't want walking around with a lot of money. No-one trusts you, because your behaviour pattern appears unreliable unless you know who's talking to who, you don't manage to stamp the things out, and you inflict a lot of grievances. The smart move is not to try to exact control on an issue when it is not practically attainable. The U.S. hasn't been able to control drugs within its own borders, where they all speak the same language and there aren't the same degree of major tribal issues, let alone in Afghanistan. And it seems to me to have had the same sorts of disastrous outcomes there as it has in the U.S. ---- 1. http://www.cato.org/publications/foreign-policy-briefing/how-drug-war-afghanistan-undermines-americas-war-terror http://www.cato.org/publications/foreign-policy-briefing/how... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/16/world/asia/16drugs.html?pagewanted=2 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/16/world/asia/16drugs.html?pa... 2.http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/21/world/asia/afghanistan-drug-war/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/21/world/asia/afghanistan-dru...
- rjsw 11y agoWe also have a worldwide shortage of opiate painkillers for use in surgery, it could have been a lot better to just buy the opium from the growers.
- ZeroGravitas 11y agoSecond time in a few days I get to recommend Adam Curtis' documentary Bitter Lake (available on iPlayer in the UK). One of its themes is that simplistic tales of good versus evil are an issue with the recent US (with their UK side-kick) wars. It touches on this issue, though without specific talk of sexual abuse. It does suggest that the "police" were basically just a bunch of warlord militias and so when the west turned up and started helping them, they were immediately seen as part of the problem not the solution by many of the locals.
- eleitl 11y agoUnfortunately, I've come to see such articles with immediate suspicion.
- devopsproject 11y agohttps://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI?t=3124 https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI?t=3124 the whole video is worth a watch
- sigma2015 11y agoOn HN regularly posters demand the US not to impose their values upon other "cultures". Then again - I don't believe this is part of Afgan culture at all anyway. I think that happens when survival bias due to war and destruction over a long period of time leads to very fucked up people climbing to the top of a society. At the end of the day - or maybe rather at its start - the US is partly responsible for Afghanistan being trapped in a downward spiral. Have a look at this (randomly chosen gallery) about Afghanistan in its 60s - I don't think that culture would be very fond of rapists. http://www.upworthy.com/afghanistan-in-the-1960s-prepare-to-be-very-very-surprised http://www.upworthy.com/afghanistan-in-the-1960s-prepare-to-...
- etrevino 11y agoDisgustingly, it is a longstanding cultural thing in Afghanistan. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/ Don't let the modernity of 1960s Kabul fool you. I have a teenage student sold into sex slavery in the US. The weak (or in her case, homeless and orphaned) are targeted no matter what the culture. For more moral turpitude, check out Rotherham. * I work with folks from the US's Office on Trafficking in Persons. It's one of the few programs run by the Department of Health and Human Services that has broad bipartisan support. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/endtrafficking http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/endtrafficking
- sigma2015 11y agoAre you aware of the political and societal implications and surroundings of f.x. the cases around Jimmy Savile or Marc Dutroux? Maybe you should watch some documentaries about that to realize that this is by the same token part of any "culture".
- etrevino 11y agoWhy the hostility? You said that you didn't think this was a longstanding part of Afghani culture and I brought up a documentary that was linked in the article you posted saying that, in fact, pederasty was a longstanding part of Afghani culture. There are plenty of people in Afghanistan who oppose it, but that doesn't mean it's not an accepted part of the culture. As for "culture", we may be better describing this as a societal failure in the case of Rotherham. Note, I mentioned Rotherham, not Jimmy Savile. The sexual exploitation in Rotherham was disgusting and was allowed to happen for years. It was a failure on the part of the predators (obviously) and a failure on the part of the local governmental structure who largely knew about it. In the Americas we have cases like my student's. Human trafficking is a big big thing and that it goes on isn't because of isolated individuals but because of large organizations of procurers, pimps, money launderers, etc., who are able to work because so many folks choose to turn a blind eye to it. Let's be clear, here, I'm not saying that human trafficking or pederasty has widespread acceptance in the West. I am saying that there are cultural (or subcultural, whatever) groups for whom it is acceptable. Modernity ≠ moral
- gadders 11y agoThis is the sort of evil that Moral Relativism gets you.
- Shivetya 11y agoFrom the good old days of you are going overseas... when not in the field the first rules are , don't stare and shut up. As in, be careful where your about where your eyes are and do not comment without permission. Simple rules that work for travelers too. There are many cultural issues that don't coincide with Western values and its best to get over any idea our views are superior because you cannot survive with that attitude while in another country.
- drivingmenuts 11y agoWhich sort of begs the question: why the hell are we over there, now? Originally, I guess we went to hunt OBL and punish the Taliban, but then there was the whole oil question (they have it, we want it, etc.). But we failed to stop the Taliban (Mission Definitely Not Completed), which just shows we failed to learn anything from the Russians and/or the British. So, why are we there now? Anyone? Bueller? Sure, we can burn billions of dollars per year doing whatever the hell it is we're doing over there now, but, as history shows, it won't really change anything. Freedom and democracy is a great thing, but if they're not interested in it at all, then maybe we should just stop trying to cram it down their throats.
- tsotha 11y ago>But we failed to stop the Taliban (Mission Definitely Not Completed), which just shows we failed to learn anything from the Russians and/or the British. That's why the Taliban are comfortably ensconced in Kabul, right? >So, why are we there now? Anyone? Bueller? We've withdrawn all but a token force. There are less than ten thousand US troops in Afghanistan.
- tim333 11y ago>failed to learn anything from the Russians I chatted to some exiles from Afganistan and they thought the Russian period was the best in terms of economic growth, human rights and the like. It only really ended with the US arming people like Bin Laden to overthrow them and didn't that work out well.
- theworstshill 11y agoAnybody else here remembers the picture of Reagan with the Taliban and a heading along the lines of "These gentlemen are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers". I am not surprised in the slightest.
- ZeroGravitas 11y agoI'm not sure when the Taliban officially started, but it's probably a bit after Reagan was involved in funding the Mujahadeen. Plus, the individuals mentioned in the linked story are actually warlords that are fighting against the Taliban, in conjunction with the US forces. This is complicated further by the fact that I think many of the warlords switch sides between Taliban, US & freelance depending on whatever seems to be the most lucrative at any point in time.
- harry8 11y agoThe key to this is what you think about the morality of one's own countries soldiers ignoring and so tacitly approving the rape of children. Structurally what do you think of the idea that soldiers were ordered to do so. Rape of children is outside the limits of what I will tolerate from any culture. First things first, the idea that those of my own culture and country condone the rape of children for political ends in a foreign country is something for which they should be facing charges and entitled to proper legal defence in my culture and my country.
- adultSwim 11y agoThis is a good headline. I wish we could get back to informative page titles. Sorry itself is sickening.