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I find the whole US experience quite odd. Among everyone I knew up until my mid-late 20s (before I went abroad), the only viable options for nighttime fun were

I find the whole US experience quite odd. Among everyone I knew up until my mid-late 20s (before I went abroad), the only viable options for nighttime fun were clubs and bars. Period. Luckily, I knew foreigners who would have house parties, bbqs and picnics. When I moved to Brazil, people met on the beach, or were otherwise mostly in public spaces (you can drink on the street there). In Portugal, it's a mix of bar/club and public space* (drinking on the street is allowed), plus house parties. Whether in Brazil or Portugal, I can go out and spend $15 (incl. two-way transportation) and have a great time. Try doing that in the States. * pretty typical scenes in Lisbon on the weekends http://imgur.com/a/5Fcvt http://imgur.com/a/5Fcvt

adventured 11y ago
On an observational basis, the public parks in LA are almost always filled with people having fun, having picnics, holding parties, et al. Drive by them on any weekend and they're full. BBQ is a massive industry in the US for a reason. It has gotten bigger, not smaller. More people today BBQ, not less. Potlucks are extremely common in the US as well. I think your criticism is unfounded. It's trivially easy to hold group get-togethers in public parks in the US and only be out $15.
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  > "only be out $15." It very likely won't involve alcohol. There's almost nothing in the states you can do in public involving alcohol that will put you out < $15 and satisfy the notion of 'event' that anyone wanting alcohol would agree with. The "going out with friends and getting drunk" for $15 might fly in other countries, but probably not here.
  - sp332 11y ago
    You'll have to be more specific than "in the states" because when I do that, it feels like an "event" to me.
    - mgkimsal 11y ago
      not sure I can be more specific, but it's a generalization based on 20+ years of "going out" in various states (US).
  - monksy 11y ago
    Going in on a keg share with friends can make that less than $15. Also, in some parts of the country there are BYOB places. (That would greatly bring down the price of alcohol)
  - dasil003 11y ago
    In Berlin you can buy a case (20 1-liter bottles) of beer for about that much. Yes, cheaper than bottled water, and certainly enough a very long night for anyone except Andre the Giant.
- personlurking 11y ago
  I'm from the Bay, but I lived in LA (for a little bit) and SD (for longer) in my college years, with post-college being back in the Bay. While LA seemed to be all about bars/clubs, SD was more chill with bondfires and house parties. There was an image, growing up, of BBQs and Potlucks as things "older people" (or at least families) do, but as I'm into my 30s, they are things I find myself doing with my friends. I'd be happy to know more people are doing them more often, and the group get-togethers I had (w/ my foreign friends) in public parks were, in fact, very low-cost and a lot of fun. As far as my criticism, in the Bay I was friends with all different kinds of people, across many divides, and the majority of them were unfortunately stuck in the bar/club paradigm. The foreigners being the only ones who were more open to other activities. With everyone having their own experiences, at different ages, with their own social groups, it'll be quite hard to discuss the whole topic w/o comparing individual observations.
  - mhurron 11y ago
    > BBQs and Potlucks as things "older people" (or at least families) do, but as I'm into my 30, they are things I find myself doing with my friends They are things older people do. You just haven't seemed to realize you're one of them now.
- superuser2 11y ago
  Public parks close at night, sometimes shortly after sunset but never later than ~11pm. Individuals and small groups are routinely harassed and ticketed for violating park hours. A large group, particularly one that's drinking, almost guarantees police response. A large group of urban minority youth and they'll put it in the press as a riot and call out SWAT. I'm speaking from experience with my local Lake Michigan-facing public parks in a well-to-do Milwaukee suburb and the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago. Public parks are there for "wholesome" daytime leisure, not evening parties. Barbecues and potlucks are common social gatherings for married couples who own suburban homes and have (small) children. I don't have data but I'd estimate the age curve for consumers of the BBQ industry peaks at 40 and tapers off around 30.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
charrisku 11y ago
I agree wholeheartedly on the public drinking aspect. I lived in Virginia for 30 years and if you are walking around on the street with a beer, you're essentially asking to spend 4 hours in the "drunk tank" for public intoxication. This will be followed by offering some welfare ($) to the local legal profession to get the charge dismissed or pled down so you won't have a criminal conviction for your future employers to ask you about. There are similar laws in many other states and it definitely puts the kibosh on any potential block party you may wish to have. Since moving to Europe I find it pretty awesome to be able to enjoy a beer while I stroll and not worry about being run in so I can fund some lawyer's BMW lease.
- VLM 11y ago
  The article tip toed around the hatred "everyone who doesn't party" (which the article admits is the VAST majority of the population) has against the tiny minority who party. Mixing hyper militarized cops with high school drinking parties isn't much of a win, so the 5% or so of the party population get kicked out of the middle class pool either financially or via criminal charges before they get into their later 20s where journalists ponder why that social group mysteriously disappeared. Mix the poverty of permanent declines in economic standard of living with increasing fines to be "tough on crime" and mandatory minimums and the risk just isn't worth it both for the people who hold the party and the drunk drivers who attend, and people with risk taking disabilities are destroyed before the late 20s that the journalist is writing about. Another cultural curiosity is I'm old enough to have been born into sports nerd dominated culture, but the times they are a changin' and the journalist is apparently completely divorced from sports nerd culture, doesn't know anyone who brings over a couple beers to watch the game with a dozen or so guys, or tailgates. The rise of liability lawsuits and anti-drinking culture might be behind a drop in tailgating. I've heard some stadiums ban tailgating entirely! Anyway its interesting that sports nerd culture has declined so incredibly far that the author doesn't even consider mentioning it. For folks too young to have ever experienced it, a ball game on TV used to be a perfectly good excuse for multi-hour long house parties even for people who aren't interested in sports, it wasn't strictly a jock thing; I guess the canonical stereotypical example would be the superbowl party where most of the party goers don't care much about the game but its a convenient holiday between new years and spring break or memorial day (valentines day doesn't count, its for couples not house parties)
herge 11y ago
The drinking age in the U.S. is 21, and is very heavily enforced. It's a lot easier to drink underage in someone's house than in public.
- coldtea 11y ago
  And yet the "go to the army and kill and/or get killed" is 18 and the "caught by law and get the death penalty" is 15...
  - Cthulhu_ 11y ago
    And the "be a part of the #4 cause of death" (i.e. driving) becomes available at 15 or 16ish.
    - akgerber 11y ago
      #1 for young people!
  - paulydavis 11y ago
    The death penalty is 18 by a recent supreme court ruling.
  - jschwartzi 11y ago
    If you're 18 and in the army, you can buy alcohol on post.
rhino369 11y ago
>I find the whole US experience quite odd. Among everyone I knew up until my mid-late 20s (before I went abroad), the only viable options for nighttime fun were clubs and bars. Period. Did you grow up in a big city? I grew up in the surburbs, went to school in a college town, and then lived in Chicago until I was 28. In all of those places, it was common to have house parties, backyard parties, and apartment parties. When I moved to Washington, DC, I've noticed that those sorts of parties are less common because very few people have more than 500-600 sq ft apartments. I expect it's the same in NY and SF. The public drinking thing is a cultural issue. English influenced cultures have a bizarre drinking culture. It's viewed somewhat shamefully, but it's also ubiquitous. The drinking culture is centered around binge drinking. Drinking in public isn't allowed because we don't handle it well.
- personlurking 11y ago
  No, not in a big city. I was also in the suburbs, all around the SF Bay, just not in SF proper (though I have friends there and I'd go there on weekends). When I was in San Diego, the only place I felt a real college atmophere, house/apt parties were pretty normal though on par with bar+club activities.
- mixmastamyk 11y ago
  > Drinking in public isn't allowed because we don't handle it well. Maybe it's not handled well, because it isn't allowed... which increases the excitement of course. Perhaps if you were sipping the stuff from late childhood like in Germany or Italy for example, it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal.
joesmo 11y ago
"Try doing that in the States." You can't. There are essentially no public spaces in the US for this type of activity. As you noted, drinking is not legal in "public" spaces. That's minor when being in "public" spaces is not legal itself (it's called loitering). You can get away with it some places, but it's much harder in a group. If you're a group of teenagers or young adults, police harassment is almost guaranteed (remove the "almost" if you're not white). The only potentially safe place is in private homes. The only public places left are bars and clubs, as those are the only types of places socializing is still allowed, that I know of, under high scrutiny after you get patted down and searched of course. Also, bowling alleys, sometimes after the same type of pat-down.
- anon4 11y ago
  You mean you can't just sit on a bench in the park and do nothing? Or walk up and down main street window-shopping with a bunch of friends?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- superuser2 11y ago
  Once place you'll find excellent public places in the US is behind the proximity-card gates of a good university. Glorious, Gothic architecture reading rooms with hundreds of comfortable seats, power at each one of them, 100Mbit WiFi, and a cafe on site. Coffee shops with large seating areas, similar power and WiFi amenities, and no obligation to buy anything. Dorms have common rooms and lounges where students hang out long into the night, with several conversations going and Super Smash Brothers on the TV in the background. My school's housing system is designed around "houses" of 50-100 students occupying vertical slices of the dorms, and in most you can wander into your house lounge at any hour and be around your friends. Many universities are laid out around quadrangles, and on a nice day on the vast green space you'll see classes sitting in circles, students leaning on trees reading, a few frisbees in the air, etc. Depending on the social climate, drinking may be allowed in dorm common spaces (a more subdued, conversational kind of party than a bumpin' rager you'll find at a frat). I wish I could have access to that kind of thing again after graduation. I'll miss it. Public libraries and most commercial coffee shops don't come close.
aqwwe 11y ago
both in Canada and USA, there is plenty of house parties but you can get in trouble for drinking in the streets... but there is private beaches and such, at hotels for example. Also, the pictures that you posted appear to be a private area...
- andruby 11y ago
  I know the first two places in Lisbon: 1) Miradouro de Santa Catarina https://goo.gl/jwAE8A https://goo.gl/jwAE8A 2) Any street in Bairro Alto https://goo.gl/aN4isX https://goo.gl/aN4isX They are as public as places get. I spent plenty of nights there during my studies abroad :D

adventured 11y ago

On an observational basis, the public parks in LA are almost always filled with people having fun, having picnics, holding parties, et al. Drive by them on any weekend and they're full. BBQ is a massive industry in the US for a reason. It has gotten bigger, not smaller. More people today BBQ, not less. Potlucks are extremely common in the US as well. I think your criticism is unfounded. It's trivially easy to hold group get-togethers in public parks in the US and only be out $15.

mgkimsal 11y ago
> "only be out $15." It very likely won't involve alcohol. There's almost nothing in the states you can do in public involving alcohol that will put you out < $15 and satisfy the notion of 'event' that anyone wanting alcohol would agree with. The "going out with friends and getting drunk" for $15 might fly in other countries, but probably not here.
- sp332 11y ago
  You'll have to be more specific than "in the states" because when I do that, it feels like an "event" to me.
  - mgkimsal 11y ago
    not sure I can be more specific, but it's a generalization based on 20+ years of "going out" in various states (US).
- monksy 11y ago
  Going in on a keg share with friends can make that less than $15. Also, in some parts of the country there are BYOB places. (That would greatly bring down the price of alcohol)
- dasil003 11y ago
  In Berlin you can buy a case (20 1-liter bottles) of beer for about that much. Yes, cheaper than bottled water, and certainly enough a very long night for anyone except Andre the Giant.
personlurking 11y ago
I'm from the Bay, but I lived in LA (for a little bit) and SD (for longer) in my college years, with post-college being back in the Bay. While LA seemed to be all about bars/clubs, SD was more chill with bondfires and house parties. There was an image, growing up, of BBQs and Potlucks as things "older people" (or at least families) do, but as I'm into my 30s, they are things I find myself doing with my friends. I'd be happy to know more people are doing them more often, and the group get-togethers I had (w/ my foreign friends) in public parks were, in fact, very low-cost and a lot of fun. As far as my criticism, in the Bay I was friends with all different kinds of people, across many divides, and the majority of them were unfortunately stuck in the bar/club paradigm. The foreigners being the only ones who were more open to other activities. With everyone having their own experiences, at different ages, with their own social groups, it'll be quite hard to discuss the whole topic w/o comparing individual observations.
- mhurron 11y ago
  > BBQs and Potlucks as things "older people" (or at least families) do, but as I'm into my 30, they are things I find myself doing with my friends They are things older people do. You just haven't seemed to realize you're one of them now.
superuser2 11y ago
Public parks close at night, sometimes shortly after sunset but never later than ~11pm. Individuals and small groups are routinely harassed and ticketed for violating park hours. A large group, particularly one that's drinking, almost guarantees police response. A large group of urban minority youth and they'll put it in the press as a riot and call out SWAT. I'm speaking from experience with my local Lake Michigan-facing public parks in a well-to-do Milwaukee suburb and the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago. Public parks are there for "wholesome" daytime leisure, not evening parties. Barbecues and potlucks are common social gatherings for married couples who own suburban homes and have (small) children. I don't have data but I'd estimate the age curve for consumers of the BBQ industry peaks at 40 and tapers off around 30.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

charrisku 11y ago

I agree wholeheartedly on the public drinking aspect. I lived in Virginia for 30 years and if you are walking around on the street with a beer, you're essentially asking to spend 4 hours in the "drunk tank" for public intoxication. This will be followed by offering some welfare ($) to the local legal profession to get the charge dismissed or pled down so you won't have a criminal conviction for your future employers to ask you about. There are similar laws in many other states and it definitely puts the kibosh on any potential block party you may wish to have. Since moving to Europe I find it pretty awesome to be able to enjoy a beer while I stroll and not worry about being run in so I can fund some lawyer's BMW lease.

VLM 11y ago
The article tip toed around the hatred "everyone who doesn't party" (which the article admits is the VAST majority of the population) has against the tiny minority who party. Mixing hyper militarized cops with high school drinking parties isn't much of a win, so the 5% or so of the party population get kicked out of the middle class pool either financially or via criminal charges before they get into their later 20s where journalists ponder why that social group mysteriously disappeared. Mix the poverty of permanent declines in economic standard of living with increasing fines to be "tough on crime" and mandatory minimums and the risk just isn't worth it both for the people who hold the party and the drunk drivers who attend, and people with risk taking disabilities are destroyed before the late 20s that the journalist is writing about. Another cultural curiosity is I'm old enough to have been born into sports nerd dominated culture, but the times they are a changin' and the journalist is apparently completely divorced from sports nerd culture, doesn't know anyone who brings over a couple beers to watch the game with a dozen or so guys, or tailgates. The rise of liability lawsuits and anti-drinking culture might be behind a drop in tailgating. I've heard some stadiums ban tailgating entirely! Anyway its interesting that sports nerd culture has declined so incredibly far that the author doesn't even consider mentioning it. For folks too young to have ever experienced it, a ball game on TV used to be a perfectly good excuse for multi-hour long house parties even for people who aren't interested in sports, it wasn't strictly a jock thing; I guess the canonical stereotypical example would be the superbowl party where most of the party goers don't care much about the game but its a convenient holiday between new years and spring break or memorial day (valentines day doesn't count, its for couples not house parties)

herge 11y ago

The drinking age in the U.S. is 21, and is very heavily enforced. It's a lot easier to drink underage in someone's house than in public.

coldtea 11y ago
And yet the "go to the army and kill and/or get killed" is 18 and the "caught by law and get the death penalty" is 15...
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  And the "be a part of the #4 cause of death" (i.e. driving) becomes available at 15 or 16ish.
  - akgerber 11y ago
    #1 for young people!
- paulydavis 11y ago
  The death penalty is 18 by a recent supreme court ruling.
- jschwartzi 11y ago
  If you're 18 and in the army, you can buy alcohol on post.

rhino369 11y ago

>I find the whole US experience quite odd. Among everyone I knew up until my mid-late 20s (before I went abroad), the only viable options for nighttime fun were clubs and bars. Period. Did you grow up in a big city? I grew up in the surburbs, went to school in a college town, and then lived in Chicago until I was 28. In all of those places, it was common to have house parties, backyard parties, and apartment parties. When I moved to Washington, DC, I've noticed that those sorts of parties are less common because very few people have more than 500-600 sq ft apartments. I expect it's the same in NY and SF. The public drinking thing is a cultural issue. English influenced cultures have a bizarre drinking culture. It's viewed somewhat shamefully, but it's also ubiquitous. The drinking culture is centered around binge drinking. Drinking in public isn't allowed because we don't handle it well.

personlurking 11y ago
No, not in a big city. I was also in the suburbs, all around the SF Bay, just not in SF proper (though I have friends there and I'd go there on weekends). When I was in San Diego, the only place I felt a real college atmophere, house/apt parties were pretty normal though on par with bar+club activities.
mixmastamyk 11y ago
> Drinking in public isn't allowed because we don't handle it well. Maybe it's not handled well, because it isn't allowed... which increases the excitement of course. Perhaps if you were sipping the stuff from late childhood like in Germany or Italy for example, it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal.

joesmo 11y ago

"Try doing that in the States." You can't. There are essentially no public spaces in the US for this type of activity. As you noted, drinking is not legal in "public" spaces. That's minor when being in "public" spaces is not legal itself (it's called loitering). You can get away with it some places, but it's much harder in a group. If you're a group of teenagers or young adults, police harassment is almost guaranteed (remove the "almost" if you're not white). The only potentially safe place is in private homes. The only public places left are bars and clubs, as those are the only types of places socializing is still allowed, that I know of, under high scrutiny after you get patted down and searched of course. Also, bowling alleys, sometimes after the same type of pat-down.

anon4 11y ago
You mean you can't just sit on a bench in the park and do nothing? Or walk up and down main street window-shopping with a bunch of friends?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
superuser2 11y ago
Once place you'll find excellent public places in the US is behind the proximity-card gates of a good university. Glorious, Gothic architecture reading rooms with hundreds of comfortable seats, power at each one of them, 100Mbit WiFi, and a cafe on site. Coffee shops with large seating areas, similar power and WiFi amenities, and no obligation to buy anything. Dorms have common rooms and lounges where students hang out long into the night, with several conversations going and Super Smash Brothers on the TV in the background. My school's housing system is designed around "houses" of 50-100 students occupying vertical slices of the dorms, and in most you can wander into your house lounge at any hour and be around your friends. Many universities are laid out around quadrangles, and on a nice day on the vast green space you'll see classes sitting in circles, students leaning on trees reading, a few frisbees in the air, etc. Depending on the social climate, drinking may be allowed in dorm common spaces (a more subdued, conversational kind of party than a bumpin' rager you'll find at a frat). I wish I could have access to that kind of thing again after graduation. I'll miss it. Public libraries and most commercial coffee shops don't come close.

aqwwe 11y ago

both in Canada and USA, there is plenty of house parties but you can get in trouble for drinking in the streets... but there is private beaches and such, at hotels for example. Also, the pictures that you posted appear to be a private area...

andruby 11y ago
I know the first two places in Lisbon: 1) Miradouro de Santa Catarina https://goo.gl/jwAE8A https://goo.gl/jwAE8A 2) Any street in Bairro Alto https://goo.gl/aN4isX https://goo.gl/aN4isX They are as public as places get. I spent plenty of nights there during my studies abroad :D