10 ms·
PaperBack – How to store data on a single A4/Letter sheet
- marbu 11y agoThis reminds me of http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/ http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/
- pronoiac 11y agoNote, Paperback has over twice the density of Optar. Not that I'm complaining. I bookmarked both because I think they're nifty, despite "media abuse" being the best tag I could think of.
- fluidcruft 11y agoNote: it's extremely easy to increase the density of optar (by editing two constants in the source). optar is configured for 200dpi by default (based on real-world testing).
- pkaye 11y agoReminds me of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauzin_Softstrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauzin_Softstrip. Magazines would print out their source code and you could scan it in. Of course I had no money to buy such an expensive machine so was relegated to mind numbing typing and the inevitable typos that came with it.
- asciimo 11y agoI was just going to post this! http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QCW5ehtSL._SS500_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QCW5ehtSL._SS500_.jp...
- mholt 11y agoHas anyone actually used this? I'm intrigued by the idea and wonder if this is a viable backup option; and if so, are there more modern, maintained, and cross-platform open source solutions that do this?
- CuttlefishXXX 11y agotar and split combined with a QR encoder would solve the problem just fine.
- kalleboo 11y agoI'm pretty sure systemd has this feature in there somewhere
- curiousjorge 11y agothis has some pretty powerful applications for example for politics or mass dissemination of paper based digital files for the public to quickly consume. Imagine, if students could start posting free textbook pdf files just by handing out a piece of paper which you could scan, or maybe with a phone one day, and instantly receive the file. Why not QR code? QR code needs connectivity while this solution would just require you to get your hands on the paper.
- 0xcde4c3db 11y agoQR code doesn't actually need connectivity, but its standard capacity is limited, so it's usually only used for small data like URIs and serial numbers. In principle, though, there's nothing stopping anyone from encoding a PDF as a big array of QR codes.
- isomorphic 11y agoYou most certainly can use QR codes to store data, using Version 40 QR codes. I'm sure PaperBack and QR codes have much in common. Also, QR codes let you adjust the level of error-correction that you want. Even if a QR code has a maximum size, you could use more than one per page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Design I'm sure there are other 2D barcodes that could be used for this application. E.g., Data Matrix (also in the public domain). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Matrix
- robotkilla 11y agoMaybe I'm just slow tonight but I don't see the usefulness in the applications you're describing. >for politics or mass dissemination of paper based digital files for the public to quickly consume > Imagine, if students could start posting free textbook pdf files just by handing out a piece of paper which you could scan, or maybe with a phone one day, and instantly receive the file. With both of those, how is this more efficient or easier to pass around than a cheap micro sd card, or just emailing a pdf?
- aw3c2 11y ago
- ant6n 11y agoSo I'd like this on medium that's a bit more permanent than paper, but with similar information density per kg, and similar re-creatability without having any of the original tools available. I'd like to store data for say 100 thousand years.
- chronomex 11y agoTyvek, perhaps? I'm not sure how long-term it would stick around, but it wouldn't decay as fast as paper in an unprotected environment.
- eplanit 11y agoYou beat me to it. Tyvek would be an excellent candidate for its amazing durability and that it behaves much like paper (at least in terms of texture).
- kawera 11y agoAn IBM researcher did this with a Tyvek-like material in the 90s, a polyester made by DuPond if I remember correctly. Just tried to google a reference but no luck.
- userbinator 11y agoTyvek is basically HDPE plastic, and relative to paper it has much poorer temperature resistance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_polyethylene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-density_polyethylene
- Adaptive 11y agoNot 100,000 years, but if you're looking for something that will last longer than paper, I recommend... paper. Rag paper. 100% rag, acid free copier/laser paper should be available at most office supply stores. I'd be more worried about toner de-lamination than paper deterioration in that case.
- kabdib 11y agoPaper's pretty good. Not sure it's 100K years good, but you're definitely better with paper than almost anything else in the modern world. People underestimate paper. It's vulnerable to moisture, mold and insects, though. If you can solve problems with breakage, very little is going to compete with glass or ceramic. So, something it's hard to apply breaking force to: Maybe etch glass balls, add some impurities for visibility, then re-coat with more glass for protection. A handful of beads will survive nearly anything.
- Jerry2 11y agoWhat does the output look like? There's no example of it on that page...
- malanj 11y agoExample of PaperBack's output: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/574/7105/8d/www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/extremetech-page-paperback-gif.gif https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/574/7105/8d/www.extremetech.com/...
- piyush_soni 11y agoThanks. I was searching for it on the description page, but then rightly thought someone would surely post it on HN :).
- omribahumi 11y agoI wonder, why so many alignments (or, why such small blocks)? Is this the most efficient size?
- chiph 11y agoProbably to give the scanning software a way to re-sync and correct for skew, etc.
- sowbug 11y agoThe name of the project is unfortunate, as it makes it very difficult to search the web for related projects such as Linux or OS X ports.
- semi-extrinsic 11y agoMany projects fall in this trap. I use Awesome as my window manager, and the Awesome theming library is called Beautiful. Now try googling "awesome beautiful wallpaper"...
- DanBC 11y agoOr the file manager in Fedora being called "Files".
- kancer 11y agoIts real name is nautilus
- DanBC 11y agoWhich is not present in the icon, the menu bar, the about dialog or the help file. http://imgur.com/v4jH7Yf http://imgur.com/v4jH7Yf At least they've managed to be consistent with the rename. Compare this to Packages, which is called "packages", or "software", or "software install" or "packagekit". http://imgur.com/dFidCWL http://imgur.com/dFidCWL
- joosters 11y ago'Files' is a much better name than 'Nautilus', IMO. If you've ever spent some time teaching Linux to a non computer literate person, you come to appreciate sensible does-what-it-says GUI program names and the non-obvious names start to stick out. And a special curse for all those people who decide to name their programs in part by the language or toolkit that it uses. What on earth are you thinking? Users don't care about your little details, you are just making things awkward for them.
- rahimnathwani 11y agoThis reminds me of the Danmere Backer: http://linbacker.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html http://linbacker.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
- blup 11y agoCouldn't you store more data in a color image? Just curious.
- ivanca 11y agoProbably, Microsoft did something like that (and failed to gain popularity) http://tag.microsoft.com/what-is-tag/home.aspx http://tag.microsoft.com/what-is-tag/home.aspx
- digi_owl 11y agoI seem to recall it was used to print some HDCP keys on t-shirts.
- colechristensen 11y agoThere are likely many ways to increase the data capacity of a piece of paper. The information capacity of the paper would depend highly on the printer, the environment the paper had to survive, and the camera.
- fsiefken 11y agoYes, around 3 times as much if the table on this Quora post is correct https://www.quora.com/Which-2D-barcode-format-has-the-highest-data-storage-capacity-per-square-inch https://www.quora.com/Which-2D-barcode-format-has-the-highes...
- Asbostos 11y agoExcept most people's color printers are inkjet instead of laser, so the DPI penalty more than compensates for the 3x gain with color.
- crististm 11y agoColour ink has the tendency to fade with time.
- chrispeel 11y agoTRivia: If the printer can also output white ink, and the the encoding algorithm knows any dirt on the paper, then the capacity of the paper is the same even if the paper is dirty. http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1056659&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F18%2F22732%2F01056659 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=105665...
- fsiefken 11y agoWith HCCB (High Capacity Color Barcode) of which an implementation is Microsoft Tag you can get 1.5 MB with 600dpi color on a A4. If you add the best compression techniques (cmix v7) depending on the source material you could get 8 times as much english text, easily fitting the pearls or religion: Tenach, New Testament, Quran, Mahabarata, The Dhamapada, the Atthakavagga and the Parayanavagga, Rhinoceros and Lotus Sutra, The Book of the Dead and the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and explanatory texts and commentary on one single A4. Or you could get 4 minutes of stereo music, Opus@40Kbps or half an hour of speech Opus@6Kbps - (Vinyl LP seems to be more efficient and simpler for that). Or the best 25 classical pieces in MIDI, for example Beethoven Symphony #5 in C minor is a 322 KB midi file (compressed 60 KB). With compressed ABC or Alda notation you could even fit 10 times as much. Or you can just read the ABC and automatically 'hear' the music in your head (is there a similar notation for human movement or dance i wonder...). Even so perhaps a better and more cost effective system is microfilm, here an example of the bible printed on a 2 inch film: http://www.amazon.com/Microform-Bible-Much-Like-First/dp/B00FXHBBOO http://www.amazon.com/Microform-Bible-Much-Like-First/dp/B00... - you don't need a computer, just a lensing system. It has one downside, the blind cannot use this unless you'd make an OCR to TTS or braille display converter on top of it. Or as described in the book Mindhacker you could use Dutton Speedwords/Briefscript word abbreviations preferrable tailored to Esperanto to double the text on the microfilm or on your handwritten A4. https://github.com/leonardoce/bumot https://github.com/leonardoce/bumot
- dmos62 11y agoI commend your enumeration of religious and mystic texts.
- logicallee 11y agoYes I was also impressed. But in making the point, the poster surely went overboard - Mahabarata (I just read about it on Wikipedia) is the "longest poem ever written", ten times as long as the combined Iliad and Odyssey, and at 1.8 million words that is going to be hard to fit into 1.5 megabytes even by itself - unless it is massively redundant I don't see how you can do it. The entropy per word has to be about ~1 byte which is cutting it very, very close. Add in all of the other mentioned texts and commentary and I don't buy it. The mentioned compression (cmix v7) surely won't fit it all http://www.byronknoll.com/cmix.html http://www.byronknoll.com/cmix.html
- ekianjo 11y agoThis is a revolution for transporting confidential information through customs :) If it's not electronic they won't even bother checking it!
- semi-extrinsic 11y agoNo, sorry, it's not. That's already trivial: Take a microSD card with your info. Put it together with a couple of tablespoons of oatmeal into a tightly and well wrapped plastic package. Swallow it. Travel. Arrive. Poop. Voila. Also, if you bring big stacks of paper it will often be inspected, since a common way of smuggling currency is putting hundred-dollar bills between the pages of books.
- mkup 11y agoI guess it's better to upload TrueCrypt container somewhere in the cloud and transfer just password/URL. Password/URL may be derived from the first letters of each sentence in the U.S. Constitution or other similar public source of static random data.
- eru 11y agoWhy not public key cryptography?
- marcosdumay 11y agoBecause you can't carry a key.
- eru 11y agoAll the keys that are exchanged can be exchanged in plain text.
- vbezhenar 11y agoOr just remember password and URL. It's not that hard if you really need to.
- fsiefken 11y agoIt would be nice to see a detailed comparison regarding alphanumeric efficiency, licenses and mobile readers, error correction, no error correction between the options below as Voiceye claims uncompressed 3M per A4, which is twice the efficiency of Paperback or QR codes. The mobile app is usable and supports midi encoding as well, but to make Voiceye codes you have to buy 500$ software. Are they using a form of compression? * QR version 40 (177x177) tiled * Voiceye * Paperback without compression * Grade 1 braille * Grade 2 braille * Morse code * Optar Braille would be suitable for people who are deaf and blind as well.
- deutronium 11y agoIn a slightly similar vein, there was a device that stored data on VHS cassettes as black and white blobs - https://web.archive.org/web/19970110151745/http://www.danmere.com/backer.html#info https://web.archive.org/web/19970110151745/http://www.danmer...
- pronoiac 11y agoIt could up to 3 gigabytes per VHS tape! Wow! Someone else in the thread posted a link to screenshots of a Linux port: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10246531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10246531
- apricot 11y agoThis brings back memories. In the late eighties, I wrote a program similar to this one for archiving one Apple II floppy disk on a sheet of paper. One floppy disk is 140 kilobytes (35 tracks of 16 sectors containing 256 bytes each), so a sheet of paper with a 7-inch by 10-inch printed area needs a data density of just 2 kilobytes per square inch to fit a floppy disk, which comes out to a linear resolution of 128 dots per inch. This was (barely) within the specs of my dot matrix printer. I was a teenager at the time so I had no clue about error correcting codes and the like, it was a straight bit-to-pixel mapping. At the time, this was a write-only medium, as I did not have access to a scanner. No matter, I used it to archive my most important data disks, figuring that after a few years, technology would have improved enough to allow easy scanning. I eventually lost the sheets of paper, but the floppy disks themselves were robust enough to last until 1994, at which time I wrote a program to send them to my PC through a null-modem connection.
- Wayin 11y agoTo back up my drive took 2216 meters of paper, writing front and back.
- novaleaf 11y agoJust don't use an inkjet (at least, with the normal cheap ink), any excess humidity will make the ink run, ruining your archive.
- GnarfGnarf 11y agoI converted the code to compile with Visual Studio and ran it. PaperBack was able to input a text file, create a "BMP", and read it back in. The destination file was the same as the source. However the BMP files that PaperBack generates are not recognized and cannot be read by other programs. PaperBack can't read BMP files created by other applications. I didn't try scanning the printed page directly with PaperBack. I used a separate computer to scan the page and create a BMP.
- epistasis 11y ago>a) The key used for (en|de)cryption in version 1.00 provides at most an effective key strength of less than 50 bits (and likely far less, perhaps on the order of 15-25 bits, depending on password quality) instead of the expected 256 bits. Version 1.10 derives the encryption key from the password via key stretching, significantly improving key strength. This change causes a small delay in the encryption step. >b) PaperBack version 1.0 implements ECB mode symmetric encryption. This mode is subject to a watermark attack and leaks information about the encrypted data. Version 1.00 changes the encryption mode to CBC, which mitigates this attack. These are classic newb mistakes, and great reasons to not trust any encryption on any product unless it has been vetted by others.
- jaxb 11y agothere's also http://www.jabberwocky.com/software/paperkey/ http://www.jabberwocky.com/software/paperkey/, for backing up private gpg keys on paper (text only).
- ajot77 11y agoHas anybody encoded midi with voiceye or know how to do it?
- fake44637 11y agoThis inspired me prototype out a system which would use QR codes and use a smartphone camera for recovery, rather than a flatbed scanner. Here's a demo PNG file which contains 48 QR codes (6x8) at V23 level with L correction (~7% recovery). That's 1091 bytes per code, or just over 51KB per page when printed at 300 dpi. This level of density seems to be very reliable using ambient lighting and an iPhone 5c. I was also able to read a QR code which was 66% of that size, but it required turning on the iPhone's flash in order to be reliably read. That level of density would allow fitting 9x12 codes on a single page at 300 dpi, which would yield 115KB of data per page. (At first I tried using 600 dpi, but at 1 dot per pixel the codes were totally unreadable by a cell phone. The above 115KB/page density is the equivalent of 4 dots per pixel at 600 dpi. The good news is this means the system doesn't require a 600 dpi printer. In fact, at 1 dot per pixel, the 51KB/page density is equivalent to 100dpi, and the 115KB/page density is equivalent to 150dpi).
- fake44637 11y agoOops, forgot to link to the 51KB/page PNG file: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cellularmitosis/QR_playground/master/51KB_300dpi.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cellularmitosis/QR_playgro...