23 ms·

This is soon to be a non-issue thanks to automated cars. I hate parking companies like Impark, and I can't wait until 10 years passes to see them die a quick de

by x5n1 11y ago

This is soon to be a non-issue thanks to automated cars. I hate parking companies like Impark, and I can't wait until 10 years passes to see them die a quick death when their services are no longer needed. It will free up a lot of space that I guess will be turned into more commercial buildings.

dalke 11y ago
At 4am, when most people are sleeping and few need a car, what do all of the unused cars do? Won't they park somewhere, and if so, who do you think will run the parking facility?
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  They can go a long way to park (industrial districts). They can also park more efficiently (by lining up). The taxis in Beijing have their little hang outs where they park at 4am in the morning. Parking is notoriously hard in our city, but at 4am, the roads are deserted and they spill into a few second lanes without the police caring (and they are all gone by 6 as peak time is starting). Not a problem compared to the wild parking habits of private personal cars.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Certainly. That lowers the cost. It doesn't drive the cost to zero. Someone owns the land. Someone maintains the road surface. If there are 1 million self-driving cars on the road, then that's what, >6 million square meters of space? If the cars are parked in a few secondary lanes, then the city is subsidizing the parking. Otherwise there will be some sort of commercial parking facility.
    - x5n1 11y ago
      Next to zero then. You definitely don't need parking companies. Most likely the owners of those vehicles, the commercial companies, would have their own lots for parking in places where it was the cheapest. But third party parking companies with parking lots charging exuberant fees would definitely be a thing of the past. What does a 5x10 piece of land cost of rent for a month at the edge of the city. Next to nothing.
      - dalke 11y ago
        For this to work, I think you are predicting there will only be a handful of large commercial companies in this autonomous future. Otherwise I don't think the economics works out. In any case, if I go on the Great American Road Trip, I am going to have a single vehicle the whole time, yes? (Assume I rented it for a month, and that it's fully autonomous in a city.) I don't want to load and unload all of the luggage, including the tent and stove, when I visit a city. So where do I park it? If I rented it in Florida, and park it in L.A., does the car owning company in Florida own parking spots in L.A.? Or does it have a parking agreement with the parking facility in L.A.? Or do I contract directly with a third party parking company? My guess is there will still be third party parking services. With the option of renting a space that's cheap but 15 miles away (adding $5 in fuel and a 25 minute latency) or a local place that's more expensive, but where I can easily fetch the suitcase I forgot in the car.
        seanmcdirmid 11y ago
        Take the taxi model, eliminate the driver, and there it is. There are plenty of cities in the world where taxis are more ubiquitous and owning personal cars are very expensive (parking being a big expense, but also winning the license plate lottery). American centrism doesn't really explain it. So you normally don't take a taxi out of the city, and it is such a niche activity that I'd assume that it would be a different kind of speciality business with much higher costs that allow it to solve these problems. E.g. Private parking lots like those today.
      - cwilkes 11y ago
        <i>Most likely the owners of those vehicles, the commercial companies, would have their own lots for parking in places where it was the cheapest.</i> Most companies, including large national ones, don't own the buildings that their stores / offices are in. They don't want to get into the real estate business and would rather someone else handle it.
    - shalmanese 11y ago
      The amount of surface area needed for cars in motion is strictly greater than the amount of space needed for cars at rest which means traffic lanes can dynamically shift from transit to storage based on variance in demand.
- tzs 11y ago
  Let's assume we do automated cars right, so that the cars have a wireless connection to some central traffic planning system that coordinates traffic for an entire city. As traffic dies down in the evening and overnight, fewer lanes are needed. Some lanes could be deallocated from traffic use and allocated to parking use to hold cars overnight, and then put back to traffic use in the morning.
  - dalke 11y ago
    "some central traffic planning system that coordinates traffic for an entire city" That would be impressive uptime for both power and wireless connections. I was under the impression that autonomous vehicles would be more autonomous than that. Else what happens should something like http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/01/chicago-storm-flooding-power-outage/11884545/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/01/chicago... occur? In any case, we're starting from the position that there are commercial parking services. For your proposal to work, as a way to get rid of "companies like Impark" we have to assume that either that 1) street parking as you suggest will be free, ie, subsidized by the tax base as a whole, or 2) the city does not contract/sell operation of the central traffic planning system to companies like Impark. Chicago (to mention it again), leased out its meters to a foreign corporation for 75 years.
    - Retric 11y ago
      If the cars can read signs then all it takes is a sign that says parking lane 2am - 5am.
      - dalke 11y ago
        Which is my option (1), free parking subsidized by the city. If we wanted that now, we could nationalize all of the commercial parking systems. We instead often see the desire to find more revenue sources. BTW, it won't be as simple as having a sign. Some areas already are free parking between given times, except during a declared snow emergency, or during hurricane evacuation. I'm not saying it can't be solved, only that it's not simple.
  - 11y ago

by x5n1 11y ago

dalke 11y ago

At 4am, when most people are sleeping and few need a car, what do all of the unused cars do? Won't they park somewhere, and if so, who do you think will run the parking facility?

seanmcdirmid 11y ago
They can go a long way to park (industrial districts). They can also park more efficiently (by lining up). The taxis in Beijing have their little hang outs where they park at 4am in the morning. Parking is notoriously hard in our city, but at 4am, the roads are deserted and they spill into a few second lanes without the police caring (and they are all gone by 6 as peak time is starting). Not a problem compared to the wild parking habits of private personal cars.
- dalke 11y ago
  Certainly. That lowers the cost. It doesn't drive the cost to zero. Someone owns the land. Someone maintains the road surface. If there are 1 million self-driving cars on the road, then that's what, >6 million square meters of space? If the cars are parked in a few secondary lanes, then the city is subsidizing the parking. Otherwise there will be some sort of commercial parking facility.
  - x5n1 11y ago
    Next to zero then. You definitely don't need parking companies. Most likely the owners of those vehicles, the commercial companies, would have their own lots for parking in places where it was the cheapest. But third party parking companies with parking lots charging exuberant fees would definitely be a thing of the past. What does a 5x10 piece of land cost of rent for a month at the edge of the city. Next to nothing.
    - dalke 11y ago
      For this to work, I think you are predicting there will only be a handful of large commercial companies in this autonomous future. Otherwise I don't think the economics works out. In any case, if I go on the Great American Road Trip, I am going to have a single vehicle the whole time, yes? (Assume I rented it for a month, and that it's fully autonomous in a city.) I don't want to load and unload all of the luggage, including the tent and stove, when I visit a city. So where do I park it? If I rented it in Florida, and park it in L.A., does the car owning company in Florida own parking spots in L.A.? Or does it have a parking agreement with the parking facility in L.A.? Or do I contract directly with a third party parking company? My guess is there will still be third party parking services. With the option of renting a space that's cheap but 15 miles away (adding $5 in fuel and a 25 minute latency) or a local place that's more expensive, but where I can easily fetch the suitcase I forgot in the car.
      - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
        Take the taxi model, eliminate the driver, and there it is. There are plenty of cities in the world where taxis are more ubiquitous and owning personal cars are very expensive (parking being a big expense, but also winning the license plate lottery). American centrism doesn't really explain it. So you normally don't take a taxi out of the city, and it is such a niche activity that I'd assume that it would be a different kind of speciality business with much higher costs that allow it to solve these problems. E.g. Private parking lots like those today.
    - cwilkes 11y ago
      <i>Most likely the owners of those vehicles, the commercial companies, would have their own lots for parking in places where it was the cheapest.</i> Most companies, including large national ones, don't own the buildings that their stores / offices are in. They don't want to get into the real estate business and would rather someone else handle it.
  - shalmanese 11y ago
    The amount of surface area needed for cars in motion is strictly greater than the amount of space needed for cars at rest which means traffic lanes can dynamically shift from transit to storage based on variance in demand.
tzs 11y ago
Let's assume we do automated cars right, so that the cars have a wireless connection to some central traffic planning system that coordinates traffic for an entire city. As traffic dies down in the evening and overnight, fewer lanes are needed. Some lanes could be deallocated from traffic use and allocated to parking use to hold cars overnight, and then put back to traffic use in the morning.
- dalke 11y ago
  "some central traffic planning system that coordinates traffic for an entire city" That would be impressive uptime for both power and wireless connections. I was under the impression that autonomous vehicles would be more autonomous than that. Else what happens should something like http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/01/chicago-storm-flooding-power-outage/11884545/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/01/chicago... occur? In any case, we're starting from the position that there are commercial parking services. For your proposal to work, as a way to get rid of "companies like Impark" we have to assume that either that 1) street parking as you suggest will be free, ie, subsidized by the tax base as a whole, or 2) the city does not contract/sell operation of the central traffic planning system to companies like Impark. Chicago (to mention it again), leased out its meters to a foreign corporation for 75 years.
  - Retric 11y ago
    If the cars can read signs then all it takes is a sign that says parking lane 2am - 5am.
    - dalke 11y ago
      Which is my option (1), free parking subsidized by the city. If we wanted that now, we could nationalize all of the commercial parking systems. We instead often see the desire to find more revenue sources. BTW, it won't be as simple as having a sign. Some areas already are free parking between given times, except during a declared snow emergency, or during hurricane evacuation. I'm not saying it can't be solved, only that it's not simple.
- 11y ago