5 ms·

It bothers me when people suggest unrealistic possibilities to people being layed off like starting their own businesses. There's 10% unemployment. Is that re

It bothers me when people suggest unrealistic possibilities to people being layed off like starting their own businesses. There's 10% unemployment. Is that really a legit solution? Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' and theres lots of people like his dad who really want work, and are loyal and hardworking. But there's not enough jobs to go around and the amount keeps decreasing due to automation. So what happens next?

adventured 11y ago
Not enough jobs to go around? I disagree. There are ~5.8 million job openings as of the end of July. The highest level maybe in 15 years [1]. The unemployed worker per job opening ratio is also at the lowest in 15 years [2]. The U6 unemployment rate for people that have some college is 5.x%; the unemployment rate for people with a four year degree is 2.x%. There have been eight million full-time jobs added in just four years. The challenge, as always, is finding the job you want, at the salary you'll accept, matching skills you possess. I'd argue there are plenty of job openings in technology and sales. [1] http://i.imgur.com/imAwheB.png http://i.imgur.com/imAwheB.png [2] http://i.imgur.com/2jQ4uaR.png http://i.imgur.com/2jQ4uaR.png
- sixbrx 11y ago
  I remember reading somewhere that it's a bit different for the over 50 crowd, even for PhD's.
  - steego 11y ago
    There is definitely a higher expectation for someone over 50 and with someone with an advanced degree. It's both unfair and understandable because the subconscious implication is experience and advanced degrees cost more, so they will be subject to intense scrutiny to make sure paying someone a premium is worth it. Basically, a guy over 50 with a PhD better be a convincing Donald Knuth or good management material. Also, I think team leads tell themselves they can mold young developers in their image. Not only are you getting a developer at a discount, you're getting a potential clone. What's not to love?
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  Maybe if you are under 30, look like Mark Zuckerberg, and have a CS degree from Carnegie Mellon or Stanford.
- muraiki 11y ago
  Can you give sources for your stats? For instance, when I looked at the BLS for the unemployment rate for people with four year degrees this morning, it did not appear to be U6 (which was listed as a separate metric) and furthermore only accounted for people who were at least 25 years old. I think that it's reasonable to assume that the average college grad is < 25, so that statistic doesn't necessarily reflect the experience of the recently graduated. If you take people with high school or higher education who are > 25, there are 5.5 million unemployed. I'd be curious to know what that number changes to if you lower the age to 22 or so. See http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm
Nilef 11y ago
It's obviously not a legit solution for all 10% of people out there but this is kind of an exceptional case - The guy is literally the best person in the world to fill the gap in the market which is about to be created by the lay-offs, so why is starting his own business unrealistic? Especially given that he's really just trying to do the exact same work without HP as a middle-man
coldtea 11y ago
>Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' I think it was just built on the idea of selling stuff to people and making as many things as you can sellable commodities. Whether those working are many or few doesn't matter, as long as you get to sell to enough people to make your profit. In the days of advanced British etc capitalism, the homeless/jobless/disenfranchised living in London etc, were very many. That you need to pay more people to be able to build a wide market is more of a 20th century addition (Ford and his workers, the New Deal, etc).
- nickthemagicman 11y ago
  So whats the solution to the multitudes of people in need of work?
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' Capitalism is structured so that everyone without substantial capital holdings needs a job. OTOH, its not built on everyone working and having a job, in fact, the desperation that comes with people not having jobs and people currently working being at risk of not having jobs -- and the effect that has on the wages and conditions those employed are willing to accept -- is important to capitalism (though its one of the effects modern mixed economies have attempted to mitigate in moving away from pure capitalism.)
sbov 11y ago
> Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' Capitalism wouldn't work if everyone who wants a job has one, so I really doubt that. Employees could just demand ever increasing salaries until all profit is gobbled up, and there's nothing the business can do about it because they can't replace them since everyone who wants a job has one.
- mdpopescu 11y ago
  But everyone who wants a job already has one, by definition. (Think about it.)

adventured 11y ago

Not enough jobs to go around? I disagree. There are ~5.8 million job openings as of the end of July. The highest level maybe in 15 years [1]. The unemployed worker per job opening ratio is also at the lowest in 15 years [2]. The U6 unemployment rate for people that have some college is 5.x%; the unemployment rate for people with a four year degree is 2.x%. There have been eight million full-time jobs added in just four years. The challenge, as always, is finding the job you want, at the salary you'll accept, matching skills you possess. I'd argue there are plenty of job openings in technology and sales. [1] http://i.imgur.com/imAwheB.png http://i.imgur.com/imAwheB.png [2] http://i.imgur.com/2jQ4uaR.png http://i.imgur.com/2jQ4uaR.png

sixbrx 11y ago
I remember reading somewhere that it's a bit different for the over 50 crowd, even for PhD's.
- steego 11y ago
  There is definitely a higher expectation for someone over 50 and with someone with an advanced degree. It's both unfair and understandable because the subconscious implication is experience and advanced degrees cost more, so they will be subject to intense scrutiny to make sure paying someone a premium is worth it. Basically, a guy over 50 with a PhD better be a convincing Donald Knuth or good management material. Also, I think team leads tell themselves they can mold young developers in their image. Not only are you getting a developer at a discount, you're getting a potential clone. What's not to love?
ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
Maybe if you are under 30, look like Mark Zuckerberg, and have a CS degree from Carnegie Mellon or Stanford.
muraiki 11y ago
Can you give sources for your stats? For instance, when I looked at the BLS for the unemployment rate for people with four year degrees this morning, it did not appear to be U6 (which was listed as a separate metric) and furthermore only accounted for people who were at least 25 years old. I think that it's reasonable to assume that the average college grad is < 25, so that statistic doesn't necessarily reflect the experience of the recently graduated. If you take people with high school or higher education who are > 25, there are 5.5 million unemployed. I'd be curious to know what that number changes to if you lower the age to 22 or so. See http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

Nilef 11y ago

It's obviously not a legit solution for all 10% of people out there but this is kind of an exceptional case - The guy is literally the best person in the world to fill the gap in the market which is about to be created by the lay-offs, so why is starting his own business unrealistic? Especially given that he's really just trying to do the exact same work without HP as a middle-man

coldtea 11y ago

>Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' I think it was just built on the idea of selling stuff to people and making as many things as you can sellable commodities. Whether those working are many or few doesn't matter, as long as you get to sell to enough people to make your profit. In the days of advanced British etc capitalism, the homeless/jobless/disenfranchised living in London etc, were very many. That you need to pay more people to be able to build a wide market is more of a 20th century addition (Ford and his workers, the New Deal, etc).

nickthemagicman 11y ago
So whats the solution to the multitudes of people in need of work?

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' Capitalism is structured so that everyone without substantial capital holdings needs a job. OTOH, its not built on everyone working and having a job, in fact, the desperation that comes with people not having jobs and people currently working being at risk of not having jobs -- and the effect that has on the wages and conditions those employed are willing to accept -- is important to capitalism (though its one of the effects modern mixed economies have attempted to mitigate in moving away from pure capitalism.)

sbov 11y ago

> Capitalism is built on the idea of everyone 'working' and 'having a job' Capitalism wouldn't work if everyone who wants a job has one, so I really doubt that. Employees could just demand ever increasing salaries until all profit is gobbled up, and there's nothing the business can do about it because they can't replace them since everyone who wants a job has one.

mdpopescu 11y ago
But everyone who wants a job already has one, by definition. (Think about it.)