6 ms·

NH Library Votes to Reinstate Tor Relay

218 points by danyork 11y ago

hobs 11y ago
To be frank, reading that article was heartening. When I saw the original articles posted about the Tor Relay going down at a library, I just wrote it off as business as usual. I am really glad their community understands the importance of unencumbered speech!
- thejrk 11y ago
  ... and unencumbered access to CP and the dark web. Yup I bet they understand everything.
  - cujo 11y ago
    This is the debate. How much liberty are you willing to give up to catch a few bad apples?
    - zardo 11y ago
      We could end child abuse in this country (indoors anyway) if we just require 24/7 monitoring of every room in every building.
  - sp332 11y ago
    CP is still illegal. Anyway this is a "relay node" so they don't know the source, content, or destination of any of the traffic that goes through the node.
  - belorn 11y ago
    I bet they have the same understanding that roads can be used to kill people and transport illegal goods. It might be scary that people could at any whim kill pedestrians by unencumbered turning the wheel and pressing down the pedal, but is that knowledge worth forbidding cars and inhibiting free movement?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - scott_karana 11y ago
    From TFA: > “With any freedom there is risk,” library board Chairman Francis Oscadal said. “It came to me that I could vote in favor of the good ... or I could vote against the bad. “I’d rather vote for the good because there is value to this.”
  - throwaway1967 11y ago
    CP will only be remotely a good excuse to not do something once we have made spanking children illegal and punishable as assault. It's unbelievable the assault laws discriminate by age and don't protect the weakest. Spanking occurs MUCH more often than CP (there's no comparison) and the damages are enormous and long-lasting (including a lower IQ). So if you care about kids, help spread the word and hopefully more people will come to their senses and understand that assault should not be legal just because the victim is underage.
stephencanon 11y ago
Lebanon resident here. I was impressed by the crowd that turned out for the board meeting last night. Great numbers, unanimous support for the board to direct the library to continue running the relay, and lots of people stood up to speak earnestly about the value of doing so. Board members were happy to have so many residents come out in support of them. The fact that supporting tor indirectly supports some less savory parts of the dark web was discussed at the meeting, but the general feeling was that the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.
- zcdziura 11y ago
  I'm sad that I wasn't able to make it to the board meeting. While I don't live in Lebanon, I was still very interested in hearing the discussion. It's nice that out-of-townies were invited to speak and weigh in on this.
kauffj 11y ago
The Valley News also printed my letter in support of Tor: http://www.vnews.com/opinion/18607311-95/forum-help-lebanon-save-energy-lebanon-can-vote-for-freedom-america-and-the-refugees http://www.vnews.com/opinion/18607311-95/forum-help-lebanon-... (2nd letter) Hopefully it helped. I've only lived in NH for a bit and it is crazy how different the attitudes are here. I've never been any other place where people care as much about individual liberty. If you support this idea, you can donate to the Library Freedom Project here: https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate/ https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate/
- stephencanon 11y ago
  One might also donate to the Lebanon public libraries foundation: https://www.leblibrary.com/giving https://www.leblibrary.com/giving
  - DavidSJ 11y ago
    Thanks, I sent them $50.
- mjfl 11y ago
  Live free or die!
- thenipper 11y ago
  > I've only lived in NH for a bit and it is crazy how different the attitudes are here. I've never been any other place where people care as much about individual liberty. Speaking as a native(who now lives in Boston) who grew up just south of Lebanon I find this attitude interesting. Growing up there wasn't much talk about 'individual liberties'. It was much more along the lines of it ain't my business about what my neighbor does. It just seems to be an interesting shift. Though I'm proud that Lebanon has decided to go this way. It's important and I hope that other libraries follow their example.
  - radd9er 11y ago
    I also grew up in the area and am always suprised when I hear people describe th climate in NH as the parent commenter. People do kinda keep to themselves, especially the ones who go back many generations. But the libertarian types seem to me to come from other places, attracted to NH because of the motto and the reputation, which Im not sure it really deserves. Its a pretty typical rural northeast place culturally, very close to VT or upstate NY (places I have also lived).
zcdziura 11y ago
This is awesome news! I'm not surprised that the library's Trustees voted to keep the relay online. As others have said, New Hampshire's residents care quite a bit about individual liberties (Live Free or Die), so any time the government attempts to impose its will on what we can and cannot do, there's always a lot of feather ruffling. Makes for interesting small town politics, but in this case, I say that smarter minds prevailed.
bobsgame 11y ago
I teared up a little bit because this article made me remember believing when I was a child that we lived in a truly free country, and I remember being proud and grateful of that. That sense of freedom has been eroded so gradually I didn't realize how significant it is.
Strikingwolf 11y ago
Awesome that so many people could come out in support of privacy through the Tor network, thanks for sharing OP
faster 11y ago
> A former teacher, Waterfall likened the idea of taking Tor away to prevent the criminal activity of a few to a new teacher punishing the entire class for one student’s bad behavior. It's more like punishing the class because one student MIGHT do something wrong.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  I'm not sure it is a question of 'might'. If you give any way for people to conduct illegal data trade online which protects them from prosecution, they will use it. But to me it still makes as much sense as banning cars because sometimes people drink and drive.
GoRudy 11y ago
so pumped to see VNEWS on HN!!

218 points by danyork 11y ago

hobs 11y ago

To be frank, reading that article was heartening. When I saw the original articles posted about the Tor Relay going down at a library, I just wrote it off as business as usual. I am really glad their community understands the importance of unencumbered speech!

thejrk 11y ago
... and unencumbered access to CP and the dark web. Yup I bet they understand everything.
- cujo 11y ago
  This is the debate. How much liberty are you willing to give up to catch a few bad apples?
  - zardo 11y ago
    We could end child abuse in this country (indoors anyway) if we just require 24/7 monitoring of every room in every building.
- sp332 11y ago
  CP is still illegal. Anyway this is a "relay node" so they don't know the source, content, or destination of any of the traffic that goes through the node.
- belorn 11y ago
  I bet they have the same understanding that roads can be used to kill people and transport illegal goods. It might be scary that people could at any whim kill pedestrians by unencumbered turning the wheel and pressing down the pedal, but is that knowledge worth forbidding cars and inhibiting free movement?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- scott_karana 11y ago
  From TFA: > “With any freedom there is risk,” library board Chairman Francis Oscadal said. “It came to me that I could vote in favor of the good ... or I could vote against the bad. “I’d rather vote for the good because there is value to this.”
- throwaway1967 11y ago
  CP will only be remotely a good excuse to not do something once we have made spanking children illegal and punishable as assault. It's unbelievable the assault laws discriminate by age and don't protect the weakest. Spanking occurs MUCH more often than CP (there's no comparison) and the damages are enormous and long-lasting (including a lower IQ). So if you care about kids, help spread the word and hopefully more people will come to their senses and understand that assault should not be legal just because the victim is underage.

stephencanon 11y ago

Lebanon resident here. I was impressed by the crowd that turned out for the board meeting last night. Great numbers, unanimous support for the board to direct the library to continue running the relay, and lots of people stood up to speak earnestly about the value of doing so. Board members were happy to have so many residents come out in support of them. The fact that supporting tor indirectly supports some less savory parts of the dark web was discussed at the meeting, but the general feeling was that the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

zcdziura 11y ago
I'm sad that I wasn't able to make it to the board meeting. While I don't live in Lebanon, I was still very interested in hearing the discussion. It's nice that out-of-townies were invited to speak and weigh in on this.

kauffj 11y ago

The Valley News also printed my letter in support of Tor: http://www.vnews.com/opinion/18607311-95/forum-help-lebanon-save-energy-lebanon-can-vote-for-freedom-america-and-the-refugees http://www.vnews.com/opinion/18607311-95/forum-help-lebanon-... (2nd letter) Hopefully it helped. I've only lived in NH for a bit and it is crazy how different the attitudes are here. I've never been any other place where people care as much about individual liberty. If you support this idea, you can donate to the Library Freedom Project here: https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate/ https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate/

stephencanon 11y ago
One might also donate to the Lebanon public libraries foundation: https://www.leblibrary.com/giving https://www.leblibrary.com/giving
- DavidSJ 11y ago
  Thanks, I sent them $50.
mjfl 11y ago
Live free or die!
thenipper 11y ago
> I've only lived in NH for a bit and it is crazy how different the attitudes are here. I've never been any other place where people care as much about individual liberty. Speaking as a native(who now lives in Boston) who grew up just south of Lebanon I find this attitude interesting. Growing up there wasn't much talk about 'individual liberties'. It was much more along the lines of it ain't my business about what my neighbor does. It just seems to be an interesting shift. Though I'm proud that Lebanon has decided to go this way. It's important and I hope that other libraries follow their example.
- radd9er 11y ago
  I also grew up in the area and am always suprised when I hear people describe th climate in NH as the parent commenter. People do kinda keep to themselves, especially the ones who go back many generations. But the libertarian types seem to me to come from other places, attracted to NH because of the motto and the reputation, which Im not sure it really deserves. Its a pretty typical rural northeast place culturally, very close to VT or upstate NY (places I have also lived).

zcdziura 11y ago

This is awesome news! I'm not surprised that the library's Trustees voted to keep the relay online. As others have said, New Hampshire's residents care quite a bit about individual liberties (Live Free or Die), so any time the government attempts to impose its will on what we can and cannot do, there's always a lot of feather ruffling. Makes for interesting small town politics, but in this case, I say that smarter minds prevailed.

bobsgame 11y ago

I teared up a little bit because this article made me remember believing when I was a child that we lived in a truly free country, and I remember being proud and grateful of that. That sense of freedom has been eroded so gradually I didn't realize how significant it is.

Strikingwolf 11y ago

Awesome that so many people could come out in support of privacy through the Tor network, thanks for sharing OP

faster 11y ago

> A former teacher, Waterfall likened the idea of taking Tor away to prevent the criminal activity of a few to a new teacher punishing the entire class for one student’s bad behavior. It's more like punishing the class because one student MIGHT do something wrong.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
I'm not sure it is a question of 'might'. If you give any way for people to conduct illegal data trade online which protects them from prosecution, they will use it. But to me it still makes as much sense as banning cars because sometimes people drink and drive.

GoRudy 11y ago

so pumped to see VNEWS on HN!!