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Google Found Guilty of ‘Abusing Dominant Market Position’ in Russia
- ldubinets 11y agoPrevious discussion, from when the probe began: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9068334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9068334
- stcredzero 11y agoBut really, it's 'Abusing Dominant Market Position without Permission.'
- fapjacks 11y agoAbsolutely this. In Russia especially, it's all about getting permission for this kind of behavior.
- wnevets 11y agoit's all about paying the right people to get permission.
- AnimalMuppet 11y agoI think it's a bit more than that. I suspect it's about not having uncontrolled (by Russia) sources of information for the Russian people.
- piyush_soni 11y agoCan someone post a non-paywall link?
- melling 11y agohttps://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/hacker-news-faq-1-how-do-i-read-an-article-behind-a-paywall/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/hacker-news-faq-1-ho...
- bobuk 11y agohttps://archive.is/wGWho https://archive.is/wGWho
- bostonpete 11y agoI got around it just by Googling a good chunk of the URL -- google-found-guilty-of-abusing-dominant-market-position-in-russia -- and clicking on the top result. WSJ doesn't paywall traffic coming from Google apparently...
- kazinator 11y agoGNU Emacs also abuses its dominant position in the editor market by shipping all this bundled Lisp code. Over twenty years ago I was a making killing, hand over fist, selling a Usenet news reading add-on for Emacs. Then those anti-trust bastards included some Lisp code which does that, and I went down the tubes. I mean, what gave them the right, you know? It's as if not only did they disrespect my sense of entitlement, but it's like they didn't even see it, in spite of its monstrous size.
- click170 11y agoI'm assuming this is a sarcastic post. It's an interesting thought experiment to extrapolate antitrust ideas onto free software. If Linux grew big enough could it attract antitrust lawsuits despite not being the product of any single company? My first impression was to draw the line at organizations that make money, but that leaves the possibility for free software growing so big as to hinder progress, which isn't necessarily beneficial for the community either. Discuss(?)
- kazinator 11y ago> I'm assuming this is a sarcastic post. More like satirical. I just returned to this tab 56 minutes after the fact, and wanted to delete the comment, but when I clicked the delete link, "1 point" flipped to "13 points". :) My point is, why is something like GNU Emacs or GNU/Linux above anti-trust with regard to bundling? Suppose that GNU/Linux had only one distribution, and it was so popular that it was on 99% of the world's desktops. There wouldn't be any anti-trust hoopla regarding that distribution having a preferred web browser, no matter how deeply integrated. Morally, the users of this platform would be just as locked in as users of Windows and IE. (Or Google Android and some Google Service app or what have you). Anti-trust somehow only picks targets from which it can squeeze money. That's what it's about, not any morality of the situation or what is good for consumers. Those are just pretexts. (The very fact that Russia is eagerly aping this concept speaks volumes). Auntie Ayn on anti-trust laws: http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/antitrust_laws.html http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/antitrust_laws.html
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- x0x0 11y agoThe crux of the article: Google said in February that device makers “are free to install the apps they choose, and consumers always have complete control over the apps on their devices.” Several device manufacturers that pre-install Yandex apps notified the company in 2014 that they were “no longer able to pre-install Yandex services,” such as Yandex’s search and map apps on Google’s Android devices, prompting Yandex to make a complaint to the antitrust authorities. [1] From an earlier article: In order to install Google Play on their devices, device manufacturers are required to preinstall the entire suite of Google GMS services, and set Google as the default search. In addition to that, device manufacturers are increasingly prohibited from installing any services from Google’s competitors on their devices… The openness of Android is now in a thing of the past.” [Yandex' claim] [2] [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/google-found-guilty-of-abusing-dominant-market-position-in-russia-1442250025 http://www.wsj.com/articles/google-found-guilty-of-abusing-d... [2] http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/18/yandex-google-russia-antitrust/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/18/yandex-google-russia-antitr...
- gress 11y agoProtectionist as this move indoubtedly is, it seems as though the allegation is actually true.
- fapjacks 11y agoSounds like some monopolization to me. Google can't be trusted to tell the truth here anymore than the US govt can be trusted to tell the truth about spying. There is absolutely zero incentive to admit to wrongdoing. My only question is why can't we go after Microsoft for locking down hardware in the same way.
- Someone1234 11y ago> My only question is why can't we go after Microsoft for locking down hardware in the same way. Microsoft's hardware (e.g. Surface Pro) is less locked down than the competition's version of the same (e.g. iPad). Why must ever topic devolve into Microsoft bashing?
- Oletros 11y agoFilled in February 2015 and ruled in September 2015? Russian justice is very fast, and the results are really shocking and surprising
- trhway 11y agothe main theme in Russia today is "replacing of imported goods and services with domestic ones". The strategy consists of 3 stages: 1. prohibit, bash, etc... foreign goods and services 2. ... 3. enjoy quality replacement by domestic manufacturers and providers. right now the stage 1 is at full swing.
- aianus 11y ago2. should read ??? because 3. will never happen (see China).
- ethanbond 11y agoThis seems like a non sequitur. Care to elaborate more on China's current state and how it's analogous to Russia's future?
- aianus 11y agoChina has plenty of replacements but they are nowhere near western equivalents in quality.
- trhway 11y ago"..." vs. "???" :) well, it is kind of Freudian slip here - i'm a Russian and i understand what is happening there, and "???" would mean at least minimum of constructive approach, like at least recognition of real situation, recognition that there is something unclear yet, whereis in Russian mentality there is no question, there is no constructive thinking ahead, and what we take for "thinking ahead" is actually "dreaming". And that's what i accidentally placed "..." for :)
- klodolph 11y ago
- aianus 11y agoAnd how much has 'Yandex', whatever that is, contributed to Android? Android exists and is relatively free (as in beer and speech) because it drives traffic to Google. If you don't like it, write your own mobile operating system from scratch (good luck). Edit: actually, they'd only need their own app store if I understand the terms correctly.
- dublinben 11y agoDespite being open source, Google does not really accept submissions of code from third parties. Yandex does in fact have their own app store, but many apps are only published on the Google Play Store.
- bitmapbrother 11y agoThis is untrue. Android has has many contributions from third parties. Samsung, Sony, LG, etc have all contributed to the AOSP project.
- Oletros 11y ago> Despite being open source, Google does not really accept submissions of code from third parties. Source for this?
- chlestakoff 11y ago"'Yandex', whatever that is" - Yandex is a $10B public company, a legitimate innovator and the top internet player in Russia. Ever heard of that country, or is it yet another "whatever that is" for you?
- aianus 11y agoIf they were so great they wouldn't have to force themselves onto consumers by bundling their crapware into carrier sponsored phones. Not to mention $10B is probably less than the amount Google alone has spent developing and promoting Android. Please explain how their direct competitor should be entitled to piggy back on that work for free. Edit: apparently they even have their own 'Yandex Browser' based on Chromium. Shameless.
- scarmig 11y agoWhatever suspicions I have about the process by which this decision was made, it seems in principle like a sane ruling that'll improve the openness of the Android platform.
- fredgrott 11y agoLet's see Yandex can indeed fork Android and deliver a device in Russia without Google apps..what anitrust issue here? Maybe Yandex anticompetitive desires?
- guard-of-terra 11y agoGoogle makes it impossible for a single manufacturer to ship both google services android and yandex flavor adroid. Or any other custom android; just ask Samsung, Google pressurized them to drop their own ecosystem. This is anticompetitive if you ask me.
- bitmapbrother 11y agoReally? Last time I checked my Samsung tablet I could still go to the Samsung app store to install apps. Where is this pressure you speak of that made the Samsung store app go away?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- guard-of-terra 11y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9068334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9068334 "It's not just pressure. They outright cut you off. You cannot ship Google Androids and non-Google Androids. It's part of the MARA." I think just having your own store is okay as long as you don't bundle their competitors and don't exclude google play and you are big enough to put some weight.
- rodionos 11y agoThe jurisdiction bias aside, Google has been indeed busy deploying an array of devices to disguise the AdWords monopoly behind an alphabetical soup of projects and products. The more your hear about self-driving cars, the less attention you're paying to Paid Clicks market share.
- frozenport 11y agoShould we take what the Russian goverment says at face value, or is this part of a trend in Russian policy to turn away from the West? These are the same guys trying to ban Reddit and Wikipedia.
- chlestakoff 11y agoYes, and the White House are the same guys running planting spyware in the American *ware products used around the world at unprecedented scale. Savvy?
- frozenport 11y agoUSA government spying, therefore USA software bad is not an informed argument. Choose between Russian or US hegemony and society.
- jontcalho 11y agoGoogle seems to be singled out and especially targeted by these antitrust allegation and investigations, I mean in the larger sense not just here where it's mostly a protectionist outcome as the fact that they technically don't have a "dominant market position" at ~50% market share is the least of it. I'm curious How a ruling like that gels with the fact that on an iPhone (the other half of the market) all services and apps are dictated by Apple and can not be altered, while on Android not only they can be but the whole OS is free, Yandex could have commissioned their own hardware like many others do and they curiously haven't complained about Apple. Same goes for the search allegation,the argument there is that Google should feature results from other search engines on their own site! Which is mind Boggling, no one is convinced Facebook or twitter or anyone should include content from other website but somehow Google is different. Google isn't the network layer that one must go through it to interact with the web, they are no "gatekeeper" not technically or metaphorically yet somehow politicians are convinced they are. This seems like field distortion to me that somehow regulator were sold on to (even excluding this Russian example).
- ocdtrekkie 11y agoIt's about dominant position. Having the sort of stifling monopoly that Google has opens it up to additional regulation, just like Microsoft was before it. Apple is a niche market still, to this day, and isn't under as much scrutiny.
- jontcalho 11y agoFirst the term "stifling monopoly" is loaded, and they definitely don't have it in Russia. 2nd they can't have a "stifling monopoly" since they are just another node on the graph, you don't need them to "internet", there is always another site, another app.
- ocdtrekkie 11y agoSee my response to other commenter on parent comment.
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- Grue3 11y agoGoogle is not even the most popular search engine in Russia. This is why Russian courts are commonly considered a running joke.
- dump100 11y agoor your reading comprehension is very poor, it is about Android monopoly(86%) being abused to promote search.
- Grue3 11y agoWell, I wasn't able to read the entire article since it's behind the paywall, but I'd be surprised if Android market share is this high in Russia. iPhones are quite popular here as well.
- cryoshon 11y agoTen to one that this is a backdoor geopolitical jab at the US. The Russians are always trying to create and solidify a US-free sphere of influence. That goes for US companies, US NGOs, you name it.
- ocdtrekkie 11y agoPeople acting like this is a "Russia against the West" thing are ignoring the fact that the EU, India, Brazil, and others are all conducting similar investigations, which are likely to have the same result. And the US even found merit to investigate Google, before quietly burying the case.
- bitmapbrother 11y agoIt's time for Google to close Android and quit dealing with this bullshit. If you want Android, buy a Google phone with Google Apps and Services and get all your updates directly from Google in a timely manner.
- dump100 11y agomonopoly abuse law will still apply, unless this move substantially remove the marketshare of Android.