13 ms·

> [...] although it makes sense, for example, that improving at resistance training would lead to a sense of accomplishment. It's not just a sense of accomplis

by NhanH 11y ago

> [...] although it makes sense, for example, that improving at resistance training would lead to a sense of accomplishment. It's not just a sense of accomplishment, it's an actual accomplishment: to be a stronger human being than you once was. And unlike most other accomplishment in life, you're not under anyone's whim or circumstantial luck. There were a big thread on HN just a few months ago on that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782083

kazinator 11y ago
"sense of accomplishment" is a buzz phrase that covers actual accomplishment. As in, "both my career and volunteer work give me a sense of accomplishment". People rarely say they have sense of accomplishment from something where there is no actual, objective accomplishment (without going out of their way to clarify that such is the case).
unicornporn 11y ago
I don't get why cardiovascular training, like running, wouldn't lead to the same feeling of accomplishment. You might not get stronger (in the same obvious way), but you will most certainly be faster.
- Swizec 11y ago
  Because most people don't use tracking apps and because improvements are less obvious. It's very easy to measure progress when you're lifting. You're putting more on, the numbers are going up. Lifting more weight leads to being able to lift more weight. The path from "lift less" to "lift more" is obvious, easy to measure, and feels a bit like building an MMORPG character. For running the gains are a lot slower and less correlated to your training. Running 2 minutes faster today than three months ago also doesn't feel as significant as squatting 50kg more than three months ago does.
  - llimllib 11y ago
    1. I prefer weight lifting to running, but 2. I think you're pretty off base. The gains for running are just as correlated to your training, and (IMO, obviously, it's unquantifiable) a 10% speed improvement feels exactly as good as a 10% weight increase. (For reference, I've been a medium good runner and lifter: at my various peaks I've run consistent sub-18 5ks and squatted 5x315lbs)
  - arcanus 11y ago
    > For running the gains are a lot slower and less correlated to your training. This is absolutely untrue, and purely personal anecdotes. Otherwise agree with your first two paragraphs.
    - kaitai 11y ago
      I guess I'd agree that it's personal anecdote but not that it's untrue. I have run inconsistently for years and just haven't gotten faster. Maybe I've cracked the code now with low-heart-rate training and sprints, but I haven't done it long enough to see the evidence yet. "Just running" did not increase my speed, even if I was consistent, so to me it seemed like my results were not correlated with my training. I could run longer distances just as slowly, and my body composition did not change for the better. Moreover, "just running" did not make me feel good. So for some people (personal anecdata again) it is fair to say that running gains may be slow and seem uncorrelated with training. I did make very very quick gains by "just lifting" and so felt very differently about it. These gains were both in strength and body composition, and within only a few months I found that I could impress people. Not at all like running: it's years and I still can't run an 8-minute mile.
      - Bahamut 11y ago
        If you're running inconsistently, then it's no surprise why then. I've lifted and run at various times in my life, and I found running a lot more rewarding, especially with all of the bad advice out there that surrounds lifting. After the past 5 years of mostly running (with some time away at times due to injuries), I went from a 12 minute mile to a sub-7 minute mile in 3 years (with 1 year not doing much in the way of exercise). Consistency with the frequency of exercise matters a lot.
        Swizec 11y ago
        > I went from a 12 minute mile to a sub-7 minute mile in 3 years A 5 minute difference. Which is amazing. But only to other runners. Going from a 50kg (110lbs) squat to a 130kg squat (286lbs) in 3 years is almost trivially doable (I've once gone from 50kg to 100kg in 3 months) and is impressive to everyone. As much as we'd like our motivations to be pure, we really really really like impressing our friends.
  - ulisesrmzroche 11y ago
    It's the same thing, it all depends on intensity and training though. Running a mile in 6 minutes means you're in pretty good shape. Shave two minutes and you're world class at that point. One of the reasons why weight lifting makes the process more obvious is that lifting is inherently a high intensity workout.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    You need Strava in your life. If you get a buzz out of lifting more you will get a buzz out of beating your pb in whatever distance you choose.
- arcanus 11y ago
  Remember this is statistical in nature. Your mileage may vary. I'm a runner and have found absolutely fantastic feelings of accomplishment and pride, as well as an undeniably healthier and happier lifestyle. I suspect, as Swizec implied below, it mostly perception. Many runners tend to be less quantitative about performance gains, and therefore have less obvious metrics for advancement. Does lead to an interesting corollary: does 'gamification' and quantification of athletic advancement improve retention of the habit?
  - notNow 11y ago
    and therefore [runners] have less obvious metrics for advancement. I'm afraid I don't share your perspective, runners can easily get performance feedback without going overboard with fancy and shiny gadgets. I'm a regular runner and I live in a coastal city and I frequently take my runs by the seaside. I start at a fixed point and set my finish point within the confines of a certain district/neighborhood and when I can complete the race as I had predicted, I consider this to be success and progress. Sometimes, I set instead a time limit to cover a certain distance and see if I could make it within that limit. So, no runners can certainly measure their progress and performance improvements/shortcomings in very simple metrics if they so desire.
  - runamok 11y ago
    I don't think "runners tend to be less quantitative about performance gains" is true. There are an enormous number of folks that compete in races and are timed. I would assume most of them care about said time. Also look at the rise of runkeeper, strava, fitbit, garmin and quantified self in general. Half-marathon fun facts snapshot: Since 2000, the number of half-marathon finishers in this country has quadrupled (482,000 to 1,960,000) or an impressive increase of 307%. For the first time in history, 61% of U.S. half-marathon finishers were females (approximately 1,196,000, a record), the highest proportion of any race distance. Although their percent fell to 39%, there was also a record 764,000 male finishers last year. Also, in 2013, there were 34 U.S. half-marathons with 10,000 or more finishers (second highest total ever). This data point has doubled since 2009 when there were 17 with 10,000-plus finishers, and in 2000, there was only one. For the year, there were a total of 42 half-marathons that make up the Top 100 U.S. timed road race list with 15 of them from the Rock 'n' Roll Marathon Series. The Nike Women's event in Washington, DC last April was the largest inaugural annual half-marathon ever with 14,478 finishers. Since 2010, 13.1 miles has been the second most popular distance by finishers behind the 5K. According to Running USA's 2013 National Runner Survey, the half-marathon distance is the favorite race distance by core runners nationwide (preferred 38% by men and 43% by women). Last year, there were more than 2,100 active U.S. half-marathons (final road race numbers to be released in an upcoming State of the Sport Report). Per our count, October hosted the most U.S. half-marathons (288), while January had the least (83) in 2013. October 2013 also produced the most 13.1 mile finishers with more than 312,000 and July the least finishers with just under 53,000. http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&ArticleId=333&returnTo=annual-reports http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&... http://www.runningusa.org/statistics http://www.runningusa.org/statistics http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&ArticleId=332 http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&...
- jmilloy 11y ago
  I don't get it either. But anecdotally, I feel accomplished after lifting but beat down after cardio, regardless of how tiring either the workout is.
- totalrobe 11y ago
  If you don't lift much, it is kind of hard to describe, but there is this feeling after lifting heavy shit that is just a total peace with the world. Could have something to do with the hormones and neurotransmitters that the body gets flooded with after lifting, could just be light-headed, could be something to do with all the tiny muscle tears...not entirely sure. On the flip side, I'm a bigger guy(6'5"), and I just feel beat down and ache for days if I do any substantial distance running. Sprinting though, seems to have similar physiological symptoms as lifting, and I believe several studies have shown that intensity rather than duration of exercise produces these effects.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    Try riding a bike if you're too heavy to run. I am naturally built for sprinting but I get huge satisfaction out of middle distance running. Over 5k and I start to feel as you described. I also enjoy lifting but it requires a partner, costs money to do and is inside, usually in a brightly lit artificial environment, so I only do it in the winter if at all. The bike on the other hand I can do for 6-8 hours no problem as long as I have enough food on board. I usually only do about 1-2 hours but I could really go for ever and always feel great afterwards. It just takes a little while to get used to sitting in the saddle. The first few rides might result in saddle soreness but after you get used it and buy a good set of shorts you'll never look back.
    - totalrobe 11y ago
      I was a competitive swimmer growing up so I usually hit the pool when I feel like cardio. Have also done a good amount of biking but haven't lived in an area that's safe for it in a while.
      - riledhel 11y ago
        Putting your head beneath water also has a calming effect. And just listening to air bubbles while you're focusing in swimming technique is a great stress reliever (for me).
    - 11y ago
- compostor42 11y ago
  More feeling of accomplishment because lifting increases testosterone much more than cardio.
  - xacaxulu 11y ago
    Lifting has the added benefit of increasing bone strength which is very important for men and women who develop osteoporosis more frequently.
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Lifting makes you feel like you have beat something. You have overpowered it with sheer brute strength. Running makes you (well, me at least) feel like you have outlasted something. You have endured and overcome. Both are accomplishments, but feel different. I feel much more like shouting & strutting in triumph in the first case than the second :)
- vidarh 11y ago
  I don't know if you've ever done any weight training, but if you lift heavy enough and/or enough volume, and get "the pump", that's the reason. Basically your muscles swell up and harden as blood flow increases into the fatigued muscles and you feel bigger, stronger, more powerful than ever. Couple that with the rush of whatever drugs your brain gets flooded with, and you pretty much feel like superman for a while. Schwarzenegger at one point famously (in "Pumping Iron") described it as better than having an orgasm, and it's hard not to agree. I haven't done much running, but when I have, I've never felt anything similar - breaking personal records when running would leave me wanting to collapse in a heap on the ground. Breaking personal records when lifting tends to make me walk around like I'd just broken a world record and everyone was watching.
  - tP5n 11y ago
    yet the description was quite obviously a joke by schwarzenegger and was thought to get the attention of the public/media, no one seriously into weight lifting would ever say that. if you don't believe me watch the making of pumping iron - the 25 anniversary version.
    - vidarh 11y ago
      As someone seriously into weight lifting, though it's a bit of an exaggeration, I found the description quite apt, and I know plenty of people seriously into weight lifting who agree with that. It's a different feeling, and not the rapid, massive rush, but it also last far longer. I had to choose, I'm not so sure I'd choose the orgasm.
  - something123 11y ago
    I've read that the rush you get from "the pump" is a function of steroid use I haven't done a ton of weight training, but I've never felt this euphoria. I've definitely felt the runner's high - but only once after a very very intense run
    - barry-cotter 11y ago
      I'm going to put this one down to interpersonal variation because I'm at best an intermediate lifter (BW 90kg, BP62.5 3x5, SQ85, DL 110 3x5) and I feel awesome after lifting weights. Same thing after doing Ashtanga Yoga. I just feel euphoric after really using my body, like, yeah, I just did that. The variety of human experience is massive, some people are tetrachromats, some can't visualise at all, some can't experience romantic love.
- TheGrimDerp1 11y ago
  insert popular image of a marathon runner vs a sprinter - cardio eats your muscles
duopixel 11y ago
"what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable" —Socrates.
- morninj 11y ago
  Original: “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit. But you cannot see that, if you are careless; for it will not come of its own accord.” (http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=GreekFeb2011&getid=1&query=Xen.%20Mem.%203.12 http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname...)
- andygates 11y ago
  "strong people are harder to kill" -- Mark Rippetoe

by NhanH 11y ago

kazinator 11y ago

"sense of accomplishment" is a buzz phrase that covers actual accomplishment. As in, "both my career and volunteer work give me a sense of accomplishment". People rarely say they have sense of accomplishment from something where there is no actual, objective accomplishment (without going out of their way to clarify that such is the case).

unicornporn 11y ago

I don't get why cardiovascular training, like running, wouldn't lead to the same feeling of accomplishment. You might not get stronger (in the same obvious way), but you will most certainly be faster.

Swizec 11y ago
Because most people don't use tracking apps and because improvements are less obvious. It's very easy to measure progress when you're lifting. You're putting more on, the numbers are going up. Lifting more weight leads to being able to lift more weight. The path from "lift less" to "lift more" is obvious, easy to measure, and feels a bit like building an MMORPG character. For running the gains are a lot slower and less correlated to your training. Running 2 minutes faster today than three months ago also doesn't feel as significant as squatting 50kg more than three months ago does.
- llimllib 11y ago
  1. I prefer weight lifting to running, but 2. I think you're pretty off base. The gains for running are just as correlated to your training, and (IMO, obviously, it's unquantifiable) a 10% speed improvement feels exactly as good as a 10% weight increase. (For reference, I've been a medium good runner and lifter: at my various peaks I've run consistent sub-18 5ks and squatted 5x315lbs)
- arcanus 11y ago
  > For running the gains are a lot slower and less correlated to your training. This is absolutely untrue, and purely personal anecdotes. Otherwise agree with your first two paragraphs.
  - kaitai 11y ago
    I guess I'd agree that it's personal anecdote but not that it's untrue. I have run inconsistently for years and just haven't gotten faster. Maybe I've cracked the code now with low-heart-rate training and sprints, but I haven't done it long enough to see the evidence yet. "Just running" did not increase my speed, even if I was consistent, so to me it seemed like my results were not correlated with my training. I could run longer distances just as slowly, and my body composition did not change for the better. Moreover, "just running" did not make me feel good. So for some people (personal anecdata again) it is fair to say that running gains may be slow and seem uncorrelated with training. I did make very very quick gains by "just lifting" and so felt very differently about it. These gains were both in strength and body composition, and within only a few months I found that I could impress people. Not at all like running: it's years and I still can't run an 8-minute mile.
    - Bahamut 11y ago
      If you're running inconsistently, then it's no surprise why then. I've lifted and run at various times in my life, and I found running a lot more rewarding, especially with all of the bad advice out there that surrounds lifting. After the past 5 years of mostly running (with some time away at times due to injuries), I went from a 12 minute mile to a sub-7 minute mile in 3 years (with 1 year not doing much in the way of exercise). Consistency with the frequency of exercise matters a lot.
      - Swizec 11y ago
        > I went from a 12 minute mile to a sub-7 minute mile in 3 years A 5 minute difference. Which is amazing. But only to other runners. Going from a 50kg (110lbs) squat to a 130kg squat (286lbs) in 3 years is almost trivially doable (I've once gone from 50kg to 100kg in 3 months) and is impressive to everyone. As much as we'd like our motivations to be pure, we really really really like impressing our friends.
- ulisesrmzroche 11y ago
  It's the same thing, it all depends on intensity and training though. Running a mile in 6 minutes means you're in pretty good shape. Shave two minutes and you're world class at that point. One of the reasons why weight lifting makes the process more obvious is that lifting is inherently a high intensity workout.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  You need Strava in your life. If you get a buzz out of lifting more you will get a buzz out of beating your pb in whatever distance you choose.
arcanus 11y ago
Remember this is statistical in nature. Your mileage may vary. I'm a runner and have found absolutely fantastic feelings of accomplishment and pride, as well as an undeniably healthier and happier lifestyle. I suspect, as Swizec implied below, it mostly perception. Many runners tend to be less quantitative about performance gains, and therefore have less obvious metrics for advancement. Does lead to an interesting corollary: does 'gamification' and quantification of athletic advancement improve retention of the habit?
- notNow 11y ago
  and therefore [runners] have less obvious metrics for advancement. I'm afraid I don't share your perspective, runners can easily get performance feedback without going overboard with fancy and shiny gadgets. I'm a regular runner and I live in a coastal city and I frequently take my runs by the seaside. I start at a fixed point and set my finish point within the confines of a certain district/neighborhood and when I can complete the race as I had predicted, I consider this to be success and progress. Sometimes, I set instead a time limit to cover a certain distance and see if I could make it within that limit. So, no runners can certainly measure their progress and performance improvements/shortcomings in very simple metrics if they so desire.
- runamok 11y ago
  I don't think "runners tend to be less quantitative about performance gains" is true. There are an enormous number of folks that compete in races and are timed. I would assume most of them care about said time. Also look at the rise of runkeeper, strava, fitbit, garmin and quantified self in general. Half-marathon fun facts snapshot: Since 2000, the number of half-marathon finishers in this country has quadrupled (482,000 to 1,960,000) or an impressive increase of 307%. For the first time in history, 61% of U.S. half-marathon finishers were females (approximately 1,196,000, a record), the highest proportion of any race distance. Although their percent fell to 39%, there was also a record 764,000 male finishers last year. Also, in 2013, there were 34 U.S. half-marathons with 10,000 or more finishers (second highest total ever). This data point has doubled since 2009 when there were 17 with 10,000-plus finishers, and in 2000, there was only one. For the year, there were a total of 42 half-marathons that make up the Top 100 U.S. timed road race list with 15 of them from the Rock 'n' Roll Marathon Series. The Nike Women's event in Washington, DC last April was the largest inaugural annual half-marathon ever with 14,478 finishers. Since 2010, 13.1 miles has been the second most popular distance by finishers behind the 5K. According to Running USA's 2013 National Runner Survey, the half-marathon distance is the favorite race distance by core runners nationwide (preferred 38% by men and 43% by women). Last year, there were more than 2,100 active U.S. half-marathons (final road race numbers to be released in an upcoming State of the Sport Report). Per our count, October hosted the most U.S. half-marathons (288), while January had the least (83) in 2013. October 2013 also produced the most 13.1 mile finishers with more than 312,000 and July the least finishers with just under 53,000. http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&ArticleId=333&returnTo=annual-reports http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&... http://www.runningusa.org/statistics http://www.runningusa.org/statistics http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&ArticleId=332 http://www.runningusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.details&...
jmilloy 11y ago
I don't get it either. But anecdotally, I feel accomplished after lifting but beat down after cardio, regardless of how tiring either the workout is.
totalrobe 11y ago
If you don't lift much, it is kind of hard to describe, but there is this feeling after lifting heavy shit that is just a total peace with the world. Could have something to do with the hormones and neurotransmitters that the body gets flooded with after lifting, could just be light-headed, could be something to do with all the tiny muscle tears...not entirely sure. On the flip side, I'm a bigger guy(6'5"), and I just feel beat down and ache for days if I do any substantial distance running. Sprinting though, seems to have similar physiological symptoms as lifting, and I believe several studies have shown that intensity rather than duration of exercise produces these effects.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  Try riding a bike if you're too heavy to run. I am naturally built for sprinting but I get huge satisfaction out of middle distance running. Over 5k and I start to feel as you described. I also enjoy lifting but it requires a partner, costs money to do and is inside, usually in a brightly lit artificial environment, so I only do it in the winter if at all. The bike on the other hand I can do for 6-8 hours no problem as long as I have enough food on board. I usually only do about 1-2 hours but I could really go for ever and always feel great afterwards. It just takes a little while to get used to sitting in the saddle. The first few rides might result in saddle soreness but after you get used it and buy a good set of shorts you'll never look back.
  - totalrobe 11y ago
    I was a competitive swimmer growing up so I usually hit the pool when I feel like cardio. Have also done a good amount of biking but haven't lived in an area that's safe for it in a while.
    - riledhel 11y ago
      Putting your head beneath water also has a calming effect. And just listening to air bubbles while you're focusing in swimming technique is a great stress reliever (for me).
  - 11y ago
compostor42 11y ago
More feeling of accomplishment because lifting increases testosterone much more than cardio.
- xacaxulu 11y ago
  Lifting has the added benefit of increasing bone strength which is very important for men and women who develop osteoporosis more frequently.
sliverstorm 11y ago
Lifting makes you feel like you have beat something. You have overpowered it with sheer brute strength. Running makes you (well, me at least) feel like you have outlasted something. You have endured and overcome. Both are accomplishments, but feel different. I feel much more like shouting & strutting in triumph in the first case than the second :)
vidarh 11y ago
I don't know if you've ever done any weight training, but if you lift heavy enough and/or enough volume, and get "the pump", that's the reason. Basically your muscles swell up and harden as blood flow increases into the fatigued muscles and you feel bigger, stronger, more powerful than ever. Couple that with the rush of whatever drugs your brain gets flooded with, and you pretty much feel like superman for a while. Schwarzenegger at one point famously (in "Pumping Iron") described it as better than having an orgasm, and it's hard not to agree. I haven't done much running, but when I have, I've never felt anything similar - breaking personal records when running would leave me wanting to collapse in a heap on the ground. Breaking personal records when lifting tends to make me walk around like I'd just broken a world record and everyone was watching.
- tP5n 11y ago
  yet the description was quite obviously a joke by schwarzenegger and was thought to get the attention of the public/media, no one seriously into weight lifting would ever say that. if you don't believe me watch the making of pumping iron - the 25 anniversary version.
  - vidarh 11y ago
    As someone seriously into weight lifting, though it's a bit of an exaggeration, I found the description quite apt, and I know plenty of people seriously into weight lifting who agree with that. It's a different feeling, and not the rapid, massive rush, but it also last far longer. I had to choose, I'm not so sure I'd choose the orgasm.
- something123 11y ago
  I've read that the rush you get from "the pump" is a function of steroid use I haven't done a ton of weight training, but I've never felt this euphoria. I've definitely felt the runner's high - but only once after a very very intense run
  - barry-cotter 11y ago
    I'm going to put this one down to interpersonal variation because I'm at best an intermediate lifter (BW 90kg, BP62.5 3x5, SQ85, DL 110 3x5) and I feel awesome after lifting weights. Same thing after doing Ashtanga Yoga. I just feel euphoric after really using my body, like, yeah, I just did that. The variety of human experience is massive, some people are tetrachromats, some can't visualise at all, some can't experience romantic love.
TheGrimDerp1 11y ago
insert popular image of a marathon runner vs a sprinter - cardio eats your muscles

duopixel 11y ago

"what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable" —Socrates.

morninj 11y ago
Original: “Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit. But you cannot see that, if you are careless; for it will not come of its own accord.” (http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=GreekFeb2011&getid=1&query=Xen.%20Mem.%203.12 http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname...)
andygates 11y ago
"strong people are harder to kill" -- Mark Rippetoe