14 ms·

I'm Begging for Work

• upbeatlinux 11y ago
  Doesn't seem to be any updates on this recently. I had a number of Rails-based clients reach out this guy via email. I'm sure he had quite the volume to respond to but didn't follow up with any of their inquiries. That's rather unprofessional when you're begging a "hacker" community for work.
• atopuzov 11y ago
  Please someone hire this guy i a nice company.
• onerous2017 11y ago
  OP, I have been in a similar boat as you. Back in 2013, my daughter was born and within 2 days I was laid off from my position as IT Manager at a small MSP in Dallas. No college degree at the time, no savings, wife and I were not working. The one thing I did have though (fortunately) was experience in the industry - about 8 years of IT experience (dev, systems engineering, architecture, management). I freaked out initially - the stress of a new kid, no money kind of ate at me. For not only was I a dad (a young one at that), but also now my family has no income (wife was on maternity leave). The first thing I did was head to a local coffee shop and busted out my laptop. I hadn't edited my resume in a few years. I deleted everything and started over. I knew this crappy employer wasn't going to dictate my families future. I also knew what I was worth. I immediately got on LinkedIn and started connecting with everyone I knew/asked for references and then started connecting with hiring managers at prospective companies. I created a burner phone number (google voice number) and used this on my resume - then created a Monster, Dice and Careerbuilder accounts (to attract headhunters) and filled out those profiles entirely. Having not spent a lot of time in a few years looking at salaries in different segments of IT, I spent a few hours figuring out what in the hell I wanted to do - and what would make me some $$$. I found that in the Dallas/Fort Worth area (at the time), Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure and VMware were heavily searched terms by recruiters on LinkedIn and Indeed.com.. I started looking at what I could do to leverage my current knowledge/skills and find a lucrative position. After spending a few hours researching, I found that I could leverage my systems (Windows/*Nix) administration experience and help developers deploy their code. I was pretty good with Python and was interested in learning Ruby. Bingo - DevOps!! I found what interested me - the best of both worlds and I started targeting my job searches/applications towards that. By the end of the day, I had a call from a local recruiting agency looking for Cloud and DevOps engineers. By the next morning I was on the phone with the hiring manager - and by the end of the day (3 phone interviews later) I had an offer in my inbox ($90K more than my last job). In summary: What you went through completely sucks. Don't beg. Show people that you can get shit done. Do the work, be the prize.
  • nstart 11y ago
    Holy shit dude. My comment is OT but holy shit. That's a hell of a story. Good reminder to many of us that putting in active work on profiles (linkedin etc) will probably pay off even in normal scenarios. Thanks for posting this. I hope brokedev (OP) saw/sees it.
  • pappageorgio 11y ago
    Wow man - amazing story. I am a single dude with no family of my own, but I will say a few things: A) When you are looking for a job - make friends with headhunters. Do everything you can to get unsolicited phone calls/emails from them as much as you can. Post your resume on Monster and make a really good/clean profile. I also recommend doing this on StackOverflow and Indeed as well. The whole point is to get these headhunters to work for you. Yeah you will eventually start getting 20-30 emails a day from them and the same number of phone calls. A lot will be for jobs in completely random cities. Filter them out, anything that looks pretty good - follow up on it. (For the love of god, use a burner number, you will regret it later if you don't) B) Use LinkedIn and Indeed to your advantage. With Indeed for instance, you can setup a profile as a company and search key terms in specific geo areas looking for talent. As someone looking for a job - you can do the same thing. Make your employee profile, then make a profile for "your" company and see where you stand in the listings. On LinkedIn, I highly recommend upgrading to a Job Seeker paid plan (if you can do it - they sometimes have a free trial too). That will give you access to see who has viewed your profile (for longer periods of time), where you stack up against other candidates for LinkedIn job posts, plus you get a few InMail credits to use.. USE them! Find companies in your area - from startups to big corporations and just start connecting with anyone you can. When you get to a Director of IT, or VP of Engineering, start asking about potential opportunities within the company. Develop a connection with them and the folks in HR (actual internal recruiters). Polish your resume, your CV and LinkedIn profile. Don't be afraid to send messages (shit have a form message ready to go if you need to). Lastly, don't ever give up. As other posters have said - you can get a job, if you make it your fulltime job. A big part of finding a job is hustling. If you have less than 2 years of dev experience, I highly recommend brushing up your GitHub account, maybe working on a small coding project to showcase your skills. I don't know where you live, so it is not fair to comment on salary - as that is super variable according to where you live.
• redpillbluepill 11y ago
  I'm not a dev per se (I'm a sysadmin), but I perfectly know how it feels ... I didn't graduate from a uni either, and always get passed. But that was years ago. I'm lucky to have the recent two companies I work with are awesome. I hope these will help you out: https://www.reddit.com/r/railsjobs https://www.reddit.com/r/railsjobs http://www.cybercoders.com/jobs/ruby-on-rails-developer-remote-jobs/ http://www.cybercoders.com/jobs/ruby-on-rails-developer-remo... http://www.indeed.com/q-Ruby-On-Rails-Developer-Work-Remotely-jobs.html http://www.indeed.com/q-Ruby-On-Rails-Developer-Work-Remotel... https://weworkremotely.com/ https://weworkremotely.com/
  • brobinson 11y ago
    Being in the US helps a lot for those remote jobs. Many "remote" companies only want people in US timezones. As an expat, this has been very frustrating for me recently since it excludes seemingly 75%+ of remote positions. I went from generating tens of millions of dollars of revenue for startups to being unable to get a reply from startups when applying for their remote positions.
    • xentronium 11y ago
      The "being unable to get a reply from startups when applying for their remote positions" part is 100% true. I'm in such a position now and it's amazing how many companies complain about there being not enough good programmers and at the same time don't do a basic courtesy of responding to their candidates.
      • lagadu 11y ago
        > it's amazing how many companies complain about there being not enough good programmers I've heard this complaint before; it's absolutely ridiculous. You can get plenty of developers for nearly any technology as long as you stop offering pathetic wages. It's a seller's market, deal with it.
        • brobinson 11y ago
• d4rky 11y ago
  If you're really desperate for job, create a LinkedIn account. There are literally thousands of headhunters there, judging from my inbox looking for just about anybody.
  • bdcravens 11y ago
    This. As far as experience goes, if you list a skill once, several years ago, you'll get solicited, so current Rails experience should do wonders.
  • riffraff 11y ago
    this is a good suggestion, increasing the chances to get an offer or anything is certainly good, but: It seems to me that a lot (most?) of the head hunters on linkedin use a "shotgun approach" to recruiting where they basically just send you a message if you have a random matching keyword in your profile, ignoring actual details of your skills, ability to relocate/location, seniority, wage expectations etc. So you might easily get a full inbox, but going from that to a real position might not be trivial.
• mburst 11y ago
  Do you have a github or any other publically available code/projects?
• krig 11y ago
  The whole notion of loyalty is insane. It's a contract. It's not a romantic relationship. Any employer that even mentions loyalty deserves to go out of business.
  • cryoshon 11y ago
    Agreed. I really wish employers would stop talking about "our culture" also. "Culture" and culture-worship are just another attempt at enforcing loyalty in a world where everyone knows loyalty is dead.
• Jake232 11y ago
  I'd recommend adding some kind previous work examples (Github maybe?). You also don't state which city/location you're in; that could be useful for potential employers. It may also be worth checking out if there's anything in last weeks HN Who's Hiring post to see if anything suits you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152809
• kristopolous 11y ago
  1. Advertise your phone number and your email everywhere you can. You'll get a lot of recruiters - really. 1a. Write a few small technical articles on some specific thing you know a lot about. (this is totally just a ripped patio11 recommendation) 2. There's this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152809 which I made a script for, and a number of people ran with (like http://hnwhoshiring.herokuapp.com/ http://hnwhoshiring.herokuapp.com/) 3. Lots of people recommend https://angel.co/jobs https://angel.co/jobs ... you can probably hit up a few dozen companies a day; it's ok, the worst they can do is ignore you. There's also http://crowdfunder.com/ http://crowdfunder.com/ --- look at the companies that were financed recently - they will definitely be in a hiring mood. 4. Try going to company-you-want-to-work-for.com/(jobs|careers) ... really. Send an introductory email and if you don't get a response, respond to your own email. Do it every 2 days or so until you get a response. If this doesn't exist, then look at /sitemap.xml or the whois record and email that person. Also, typing in the company name followed by "HR" and "linkedin" can usually get you a name that you can find a personal email address to. Just hit them up during business hours and explain how you got the email. It's fine. If they don't respond, change the subject line to "[follow up #2]" and then "[follow up #6]" etc ... stop when you get a "no". You may actually get a "let's set up a call". This does work, I've done it - and gotten the gig. Oftentimes the people who are hiring have a lot of things on their plate. Sometimes you need to nag them to make your candidacy more of a priority. 5. Go to meetup.com --- find the tech-centric meetups with the most attendants and go to those. Arrive early and talk to anyone you can. Don't be ashamed to say "I'm looking for work." or "I just want to build things and get paid." along with "A regular job would be great right now." ... straight-forward, non-bullshit honesty goes a long way. 6. Don't dismiss craigslist. There's lots of ok short-term gigs at below-industry, but not-to-terrible pay. I also got a 120k/yr job through craigslist. 7. Use all the above methods in tandem. They all work together. Find out who the decision makers are, where they go, get to know them ... If you make getting a job your full-time job it will come faster than you think.
• NKCSS 11y ago
  Seeing this on the front page, gives me hope he'll be helped with all the exposure. I'm not in a position to help, but good luck to you and I wish you all the best.
• krig 11y ago
  Also, I just realized: My employer is looking for Rails people, among other things. Remote workers are more than welcome. I am one myself. More information: https://attachmatehr.silkroad.com/epostings/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.allpositions&company_id=15495&version=6 https://attachmatehr.silkroad.com/epostings/index.cfm?fuseac...
  • arasmussen 11y ago
    .silkroad.com? wat...
    • rev_bird 11y ago
      Not that one. It's a recruiting platform... don't try to buy heroin from anyone on there.
    • krig 11y ago
      Yeah, I know. It's not that silk road. At least, I don't think so...
    • bru_ 11y ago
      man this post made me cringe
• siquick 11y ago
  I can't really add anything that hasn't been written in other answers except good luck. This is a really unfortunate story and I hope you get the job you deserve.
• arasmussen 11y ago
  Take a look at September's edition of whoishiring: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152809 You can search for keywords like "remote" and "rails".
  • dang 11y ago
    It's not too late to add a post to the "Who Wants to Be Hired" thread, either: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152811 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10152811. Worth a try. Good luck!
  • voltagex_ 11y ago
    The remote positions really need a "timezone" flag added to tbem. Most recruiters only seem to want UTC+7, plus or minus a few.
• rev_bird 11y ago
  I can't be the only person who wants to know what company could have abused an employee like this, if only to never apply to them or help support whatever godawful business they're trying to run.
  • brokedev 11y ago
    Honestly I don't think they're bad. I have a lot of respect for a lot of the dev team and the product itself, which is why I'm so vague on details. Like I said in the post, I'm fairly private and didn't bring much up with anyone until the end, so I don't think anyone understood the situation. Actually one of the things that was encouraging during the past few months was remarks from former employees that [CEO] is a dick, but [Company] pay is what makes it worth it.
    • thedz 11y ago
      Any startup with a CEO that you're describing (and how he treats people) is a startup that I don't want to support, regardless of product.
    • cwilkes 11y ago
      If I were a dev there I would start looking for another job -- a CEO that can string an individual along like that probably has no qualms about screwing other people. It is only a matter of time before (s)he does it again and fires someone for being "disloyal" So don't look at it as a fault with you as you just happened to be the person it happened to on that day. Also for a laugh / attitude change take a look at this flowchart [1] which is geared to graphic designers who always get asked to do work for free. In your case substitute "intern" in there and "reduced salary" for free. You've got a lot of valuable skills and people should pay accordingly. Don't be afraid to ask for a reasonable salary, even if it was 2x what you were making before. While this sounds easy to do, practice doing it with some friends in a mock interview. You want to be prepared when going in for an interview and not asking for the right salary is a big mistake a lot of programmers make as they want to avoid confrontation. Become comfortable with asking it and you'll get what you want. [1] http://shouldiworkforfree.com/ http://shouldiworkforfree.com/
    • 11y ago
• Moto7451 11y ago
  Try Hired.com. A friend of mine got a great response from a few good companies and he was very green at the time.
• upbeatlinux 11y ago
  As already stated add links to Github and LinkedIn. Also see https://remoteok.io https://remoteok.io https://www.upwork.com https://www.upwork.com https://careers.stackoverflow.com https://careers.stackoverflow.com
  • tluyben2 11y ago
    Do you have good experience with Upwork? Like every project having 100+ bids, most of them very low.
    • upbeatlinux 11y ago
      As a freelancer I've had pretty good luck with Upwork. The art in getting hired is crafting an apt proposal, being personable and accommodating. This might require doing a bit of research on the client (not necessarily easy to figure out), learning about their vertical, understanding what they are actually asking for, etc. A lot of this is common sense but often overlooked. However, many of these details are gleaned from an initial interview. A few notes - Obviosuly, don't apply to jobs you lack skills for - Similarly, don't apply to jobs you wouldn't be a good fit for - Keep your Upwork profile up to date - Use the Github, LinkedIn, etc accounts integrations. This helps clients verify your experience skill-set - Don't be afraid to adapt your profile to the job you are applying for - Be sure your rate matches your experience. If you're billing $100/hour but can't prove your skill-set, experience or the value you provide you won't get hired. Since 2010 I've worked from a few hours a week, to part-time and in full-time capacity on Upwork. Its gotten me connected to a lot of great startups (mostly SF) and recurring gigs. However, it was very difficult getting started. All this being said if you're based in the US and can verify your skills you have a lot better chance of landing quality gigs than your international counterparts putting in very low bids.
• ak39 11y ago
  1. Tell your wife. Trust me you'll feel better afterwards. 2. Keep looking for new opps. Get your CV out to as many places. Keep your hopes up. Spend time with your kids in the mean time. Kids are great company when you are "present with them". 3. Note for yourself: get numbers in writing before making changes to your life about opportunities. 4. Never use the word Fuck or any other expletives or crass language in any communique where you have the moral high ground. That just makes you look like the guilty one. Don't give the fuckers that chance. Good luck bro.
  • roflchoppa 11y ago
    Dont spill all the beans to your wife, she's gonna bring it up in a fight later one. ask me how i know.
    • igravious 11y ago
      Don't listen to this advice. Be honest. Don't ask me how I know.
      • enneff 11y ago
        Be honest. I'm happy to answer questions as to why I believe this is good advice.
        • igravious 11y ago
          Oh I see. Sorry. I didn't mean it to come across like that. Just had a recent personal situation I'd rather not go into on a public forum that would have turned out a whole lot better if me and the truth were more in alignment, sad to say : / Anyway, one lie begets another. Just tell the truth, less cognitive overload, less trust issues. Easier said than done I know; we all want to save face, we all have our shame to hide.
          • mcv 11y ago
            I'd say if you can't trust each other in a long term relationship, you have no business being in that relationship. You're in it to support each other. This is a situation where you need support.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• tsurantino 11y ago
  Doesn't this person deserve some form of severance or the equivalent of? It's kind of ridiculous that he was "cut out" from a job like some kind of child who was no longer part of the "club". It's grossly unprofessional to disconnect an employee without any due process or policy. I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the events leading up to the situation.
  • AdieuToLogic 11y ago
    > It's grossly unprofessional to disconnect an employee without any due process or policy. In the US, it depends on what state the company is headquartered. Many are "right to work" states, which means any employee can be fired so long as it is not for reasons such as age, sex, weight, religious beliefs, or sexual orientation. In those states, an employee literally can be fired for a reason such as "you upset the owner" with no further obligations.
    • tdicola 11y ago
      Actually I don't think sexual orientation and definitely not weight are 'protected classes' against discrimination with hiring and firing. Sexual orientation might be protected now with some of the recent Supreme Court rulings, but weight is sadly something employers can discriminate against with no repercussions.
    • joe5150 11y ago
      States where sexual orientation or gender identity are protected are still in the minority in the US
    • KJasper 11y ago
      Just because you can doesn't make it more professional imo.
    • hwstar 11y ago
      Why do people confuse "Right to Work" with "Employment At Will"? Right to work means that you can work for an employer without having to join a union or pay union dues. Right to work is used in conservative states to keep unions from forming. Employment-at-will means your employer or you can terminate the employment relationship for (most) any reason whatsoever. If you are an employer, you can fire someone for wearing the wrong color shirt (This really happened). If you are the employee, you can say "I quit" and leave with no notice for not having coffee available in the workplace (also, really happened at one of my previous employers). The problem with employment-at-will is that the employer has more power because the employer-employee relationship is asymmetrical. We need to teach this stuff in high school civics so everyone can see how disgusting employment-at-will really is.
• ecliptik 11y ago
  I'd suggest the following, active twitter account completed Linkedin profile active github account active website (Github Pages allows free static hosting) For a remote job search, sign up for a free RSS site (I recommend https://newsblur.com/ https://newsblur.com/) and add some remote-only feeds, https://goremote.io/rss https://jobs.github.com/positions.atom https://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/feed?allowsremote=True Other good remote job sites are, http://jobs.remotive.io/ https://www.flexjobs.com/ http://skillcrush.com/2014/10/10/sites-finding-remote-work/ Finally, setup a profile on https://hired.com/ https://hired.com/ and https://www.smarthires.io/ https://www.smarthires.io/ which are dedicated to linking candidates and companies in a more selective manner. Hope this helps and good luck.
  • sah2ed 11y ago
    In addition, this is a fairly comprehensive list though maintained manually: https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job#job-boards https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job#job-board...
  • riddlemethat 11y ago
    These are all great tips. While you are looking you can also get paid to hear job offers at http://www.joinjune.com http://www.joinjune.com
  • skimpycompiler 11y ago
    Why Twitter?
    • ekianjo 11y ago
      Because that's all where the (rich) hipsters are. you never know who you need to meet.
    • sdoering 11y ago
      [rant on] Because in this filter bubble here you are not worth a dime, if you can't brag about how friggin' awesome you are - thats what twitter is for. [rant off] Imho he should apply for jobs, apply more and even apply more. Having studied literature, I have jumped ships from publishing to tourism (marketing analyst) to being a full time data analyst via doing the work and having a resume to show it. Having an application, that differentiates one from the competition did maybe help a little bit. If @brokedev would like, he could shoot me a mail and I would show him, what I had for an application. Helped me get a lot of interviews - in the end I could choose between jobs. [edit on] Have just updated my profile - seems to be cached. In some minutes my email should show there. [edit off]
• mmaunder 11y ago
  Time to get your game face on. I'm a CEO, we're hiring but not in your skill area. Having interviewed a lot of candidates lately and looked at many more, I wanted to give you my 2c on getting into extremely hirable shape fast: Update your LinkedIn profile as someone has mentioned already. Sweeten it up, get a great looking but professional profile pic up there, get kudos from friends, etc. Do the online profile cleanse. Make sure everything is very professional looking. Remove any controversial political views or disparaging remarks about previous employers. Looks like this blog post is anonymous. Keep it that way and make sure that email address isn't associated with anything. Employers will google your email address. They'll even drag your profile pic into google image search, so the cleanse includes anywhere that appears. Get code into GitHub asap and make your profile there sound like you're a team player, super positive, super keen, all that good stuff. Stop blogging about how tough your life is and don't ever mention it in conversation. Whether you like it or not (personally I don't), that idiotic quote in American Beauty from the motivational tapes is true: "In order to be successful, one must project an image of success at all times.". Yup, that came from the real-estate King himself. Seriously douchey and seriously true. What employers care about is that you're going to be a great addition to the team, make the rest of the team happier and more productive and be super productive yourself. That's pretty much it besides not being a liability or a risk. Hence the profile cleanse, positivity, demonstration of ability by getting your code into GitHub and so on. Then go forth and market the hell out of yourself with tons of positive vibe. What I'm telling you here is pretty much to do very much the opposite of what you're doing. Absolutely don't beg. You may get charity but I don't think you're going to be happy with it considering your salary expectations and family situation. You're going to want to land a job earning $75K upwards with excellent benefits in a stable and growing business. That means they need to think that you're awesome, so make yourself awesome and go and kill it. Best of luck!! ~Mark.
  • thomasahle 11y ago
    Is it worth it to go to a photographer? Or does that signal narcissism?
    • rev_bird 11y ago
• undershirt 11y ago
  I'm not saying this makes sense, but the perception of an employee wanting to leave a company goes from "terminable flight risk" to "an asset worth fighting to keep" as soon as you get an offer from another company. This is why employees never share that they're looking for work until they've received an offer, which allows negotiation. It's a strange reality I think. My condolences that you're going through this. You did good demanding what you're worth. contact any tech headhunter in your area, and you'll find work in no time.
  • fsloth 11y ago
    "the perception of an employee wanting to leave a company goes from 'terminable flight risk' to 'an asset worth fighting to keep' as soon as you get an offer from another company." This is so true. An offer changes the dynamic of the negotiation totally. I think the psychology and economics goes like this: If there is no counter offer, then the company would pay just more for the monthly asset they will likely have any how. However, if there is a direct offer they are competing with, it means there is on the balance an acute need to find and train a replacement - one whom might actually cost more than the current employee is paid. Also, the value of the employee is validated by his demand in the job market. The emotions, which will be present but subdued in a professional setting, are also different. Without a counteroffer, the employee will just sound greedy. With a counter offer, the employee is actually generous by offering the current employer a chance to save in hiring and training costs (unless the new wage is ridiculously high). Silly and strange world we live in.
• tdsamardzhiev 11y ago
  Dude, get your stuff together and stop playing a victim. Just.. stop! It's embarassing.
  • dba7dba 11y ago
    Having a daughter that you can't provide for adequately can be crushing. I'd say 'stop playing a victim' may be ok. But saying it's embarrassing is bit too much.
    • tdsamardzhiev 11y ago
      I'm sorry, didn't mean to be a jerk.
• angelofm 11y ago
  I'd like to donate some money and I am sure other people would do that as well, how can I donate a few $$$? After having kids and be broke myself in the past I really feel for you.
  • webXL 11y ago
    Uh, how do you know this is legit? I feel for him too, but let's be wise.
• Timucin 11y ago
  What a bastard! Sorry for the language guys, but guess we all know someone like that boss! It's not that hard when you're single but the things are totally different when you had a family and kids. The situation can drag you to any point when it comes to a hungry brother, sister or children. I know, I've been there (thank god it's a history now). But the good news is, you are really valuable. I mean, you are a ruby developer. You'd be having £400/£450 per day if you were a contractor in London/UK. So don't give up yet! Check the links other users provided and open a linkedin account as suggested as well as job site accounts and upload your CV. Just hold on couple of weeks and I am sure things will be better. Hacker News is a great community. So keep us updated and let us see what we can do about it. Also it might be useful if you can tell us where are you based (I may have missed that if it's already in the article).
  • mikekchar 11y ago
    I hate to break it to you, but if you are making £400/£450 per day as a Ruby contractor in London with less than 1 year of development experience, you are either insanely good or insanely lucky (probably both). Although I'm working on contract in Japan at the moment, I spent the last 2 years working in London and interviewing people for positions almost every day. Entry level for a good Ruby dev is £30-40K for a full time position. Some companies pay higher (some significantly higher), but they will only hire one in 1000 applicants, probably. There are still people in London making £22K per year as a full time Ruby dev. And, no, you can not live on £22K per year in London :-P
    • lhnz 11y ago
      It's not an entry-level salary certainly, however you probably only need 4-5 years of experience to achieve it. Skill-level, signalling ability and confidence are all you need. Entry-level for a good junior engineer is what you say it is, however senior/lead probably reaches around £100k for particularly impressive candidates, and finishes at around £60-80K for other engineers. Contracting on the other hand seems to top out at about £650 pd. There £300-400 is entry-level, £400-450 is mid-level or low-end senior, and £500+ is high-end senior, architect or lead. Generally you get more if you work for financial institutions and have a skill that is extremely difficult to recruit for. Basically it's generally not about how good you are - that is the wrong frame. It's about how cleverly you have fit a pain point within the market. My numbers might be a little wrong but it should give a general feel. It's certainly unfortunate that there are engineers that are only making £22K but ultimately in many cases it's low confidence in testing the market. They can get more.
• bthomas 11y ago
  If the OP sends this thread to the CEO and asks for severance - or he'll update the post to identify the CEO+company - is that extortion? Certainly not endorsing, just curious.
  • Stratoscope 11y ago
    Whether it's extortion or not, it's the low road. Take the high road instead.
• devilshaircut 11y ago
  Please see my profile and email me your resume and GitHub. I run a small Rails firm and all of our devs work from home; happy to share details with you if you contact me via email.
• rebyn 11y ago
  Hey brokedev, I can help with your CV. That's something you can improve right now (besides active Twitter account/Github/Blog) to start shooting for jobs. I haven't been in your situation before but have dealt with such management, so I understand the feeling. Let me know if I can help. My contact is in my profile, or you can reach out to me via Twitter @rebyn. Cheers, T.
• godzillabrennus 11y ago
  Jump on http://www.joinjune.com http://www.joinjune.com TODAY! The gist is you get paid to hear job offers, and with your development background you should be in demand.
• mikekchar 11y ago
  I'm sorry I can't offer you a job. I can only offer a couple of pieces of advice (some of which I wish I could wait a while to give... but since I probably will never get the chance to speak to you again...) 1. Tell your wife ASAP about the job situation. No matter what stress she is under, learning about it later may cause serious problems. She can help you (emotionally and in trying to find answers to your problems). The better off you are emotionally, the better chance you have of finding a job quickly. 2. I've seen stories like yours a lot in my career. Some people are selfish. A disproportionate number of these seem to end up in management/entrepreneur roles (luckily, not all!!!). To your boss you were merely a source of cheap labour. Take the "cheap" out of the equation and he was not interested any more. I'm afraid that this is probably not the last time you will run into this, so be prepared. 3. This is locking-the-door-after-the-horses-have-bolted kind of advice, but if you find yourself in a similar situation (it happens a lot in this industry): get the new job first and negotiate for salary second. It's horrible, but that's the way you have to do it. 4. If you get the new job first, think hard about whether or not you really want to negotiate salary in the first job. If in doubt, don't negotiate -- just leave. I tell my employers up front that I don't negotiate salary, so they have to be prepared to offer me enough that I will accept. They won't get a second chance. 5. Remote working with no academic background and 8 months of experience means that the next job is going to be tough to find. Keep at it, even if you have to take another job doing something else in the mean time. Eventually you will make it, though you may be in for some difficulty for a couple of years. Trust me on this one. 6. I hate to say it (I really do), but depending on where you live, your salary expectations may not be reasonable. For example, $45K USD is very nearly $30K GBP. In London, I can get university graduates with intern experience lining up outside my door for that salary. In hourly wage it represents $22.50 per hour worked (8 hour day -- excluding holidays). That's 2-4x minimum wage in the US. If you are offered that salary again, I advise you to take it. Just do whatever it takes to keep working (easy for me to say, I know). Keep looking for the bigger payout and don't worry about "loyalty" for now. Once someone respects you enough to offer you a good wage, then work on building a good relationship with them so that you can grow together. - It may take you some time to find another job. In the mean time, spend every free second you have writing code. Build an amazing portfolio. Some people don't care about it, but I have gotten good jobs from my side projects. Again, the biggest thing I have to say is not to get too upset or disappointed. Just keep moving forward -- even an inch is enough. Whatever you can do right now is enough. Never give up. Good luck!
• tdicola 11y ago
  You mention healthcare as a concern for your family--make sure you look at your state & federal healthcare exchange (healthcare.gov, etc.). Losing your job, for any reason like quitting or being fired, is deemed a 'qualifying event' that can let you get healthcare at a very low rate. In some states it's even subsidized completely if you have no income. Unfortunately there are some states that have refused to setup the exchanges and take federal funding. The best advice there is to move out as soon as it's financially feasible. It's an awful situation and I wish you luck. edit: Also contact everyone you worked directly with (find them on LinkedIn, Facebook, etc.) and ask if they know anyone hiring, have contacts, etc. Anything to get some leads or get your foot in the door somewhere.
• nurettin 11y ago
  I can't even imagine having a 40+K$ salary in my country (Turkey) that's like 3x what I make.
  • Jake232 11y ago
    Your monthly expenses are likely 3x lower than the location he lives in though.
    • gorkemyurt 11y ago
      Not if he is not living in New York, LA, SF or maybe couple other cities.. Rest of america has really cheap housing and pretty good social services
  • dkarapetyan 11y ago
    SF devs make 150k+. It doesn't mean anything because at the end of the day after taxes and rent they probably take home less than you.
    • selestify 11y ago
      Come on now, it's not that ridiculous to save $40k+ a year on a $150k salary, even in the Bay Area. That's saving more than the other poster makes in his entire pretax salary.
      • dkarapetyan 11y ago
        My point is that absolute numbers don't really mean anything. I'm not saying SF devs are poor or struggling but if you factor in taxes and living costs then the absolute numbers no longer look so impressive.
    • onedev 11y ago
      but they get to live in a better city than you.
    • vacri 11y ago
• atroyn 11y ago
  Holy shit. I'm going to send you some mail and see if I can help you out directly in about a minute, but I'd like to comment on your situation here too. This is the third time this month I've heard of a startup "CEO" screwing their employees out of pay and/or benefits, specifically exploiting 'interns' or severely low-balling entry level hires who don't know better. Startups are hard. They're supposed to be hard - you're trying to build something big without the resources of a big company. That means you can't pay what a big company would pay. That doesn't mean you get to screw people over. As a founder you have three options: - Do tons more work as a founder. Fill in the gaps you can't hire for on your own, until you can pay to get that help. That's why you get the equity, and that's how you build your founding team. - Be up front with people about what they can expect in terms of pay, especially early on. Let them know about the risk. Hope your idea and the state of the company so far excites them enough to join anyway. Work your ass off to improve their situation and get them to stay. - Lie to people, obscure expectations, and basically screw up people's lives because you want to be the next Steve Jobs. The first two are not only ethical, but pragmatic. Being able to do things on your own is a prerequisite to being a founder, and it means you need to take on less investment, you get to keep more of the company. Being able to put your ass on the line by letting people know the real risks is the way to build a strong, loyal team of tough people. If you're going to be a founder, mull that stuff over. Accept that this is hard. You don't get to pretend it's not, because that will bite you in the ass a hundred different ways.
• cplease 11y ago
  Dude, you got shit on, but your entire post screams unprofessional. If you want to be a professional, and be treated like a professional, you need to act professional. Harsh perhaps but that's the truth. If this is a serious job solicitation and not just catharsis you are doing it all wrong. Starting with how desperate you are, how proud you made your mom, and how shitty you've been doing and been treated does not make the hirers of desirable jobs want to hire you. If nothing else, go google "just-world hypothesis." I'm not in a hiring position right now (although I know plenty of hiring managers itching for referrals) but if I were I wouldn't touch you with a 10-foot pole even if on some level you make your plight sympathetic. Why? Because your post radiates "danger, high risk, unprofessional, possibly unstable individual who does not know how to behave in a business setting." Scrub this and start over.
  • pauleastlund 11y ago
    I hear where you're coming from, but if he had scrubbed all of that from this post and gone with "professional" -- "I am a self-taught web dev looking for work, I am familiar with Ruby and have recently been doing API work, I want to work remotely and can start immediately" -- would it have gotten anywhere near the front page of HN?
    • cplease 11y ago
      In my corner of the industry, all attention is not good attention.
      • jfoutz 11y ago
        All attention is monetizable. Maybe you become the finance guy who may have laundered money for the narcolumbians, or maybe you become the lawyer that kept the mob boss out of jail. But that's perception, not necessarily reality. In any case, you're the guy that gets to charge more because you have more clients. I'm kind of curious, if you're willing to give a general corner of industry. I can't think of anything that doesn't have "bad boy" characters. Seems like any federal agent kind of person would attract attention from the CIA. A doctor maybe? Still seems like someone willing to write off-topic prescriptions would command more salary. It's actually kind of tough to think of a profession that needs to be perfectly ethical, and also appear to be perfectly ethical. Aerospace designers kill test pilots. SEC agents that appear to be on the take probably get bribed more often than the squeaky clean. Maybe there's some corner of insurance that having a reputation would endanger your employer somehow. Everything i can think of right now implies higher salary.
• panorama 11y ago
  I hope you land something soon, the HN community is strong. In case it takes you a while and you are ready to begin interviewing, I actively help junior-level devs get jobs in the industry. I wrote a book on the subject (https://kokev.in/hired-fast https://kokev.in/hired-fast) and would be happy to send you a copy for free. My email is my profile and I'd also be happy to go over things with you (applying, interviewing, Rails).
• giaour 11y ago
  Best of luck, brokedev. The only piece of advice I have is that you should see remote work as a long-term goal, not an immediate solution to your problem. Remote jobs are generally harder to find, usually pay less, and are almost always more competitive. The easiest way to get a remote job without years of experience is to perform well enough at a non-remote role that they trust you to work from home full time. (About your former boss: I know that in most states, employers can fire you at any time for any reason, but generally you'd expect them to actually fire you, not just delete your slack account. Makes me wonder if he was planning on telling you at all or if he instead intended to just stop payment on your paycheck and hope you'd figure it out for yourself. What an asshole.)
  • dba7dba 11y ago
    I second this. Pretty much a lot of tech workers prefer remote jobs over onsite job, for good reasons. The only ones that get remote jobs are either very senior, have proven track record or they are free-lancers. So I'd say keep looking for it every once in awhile but focus on getting a local job. And always be learning. Always try to work on side project. It will help learn and also may turn out to be an income source.
• mariopt 11y ago
  You can't simply fuck around with your boss without having, at least, a second source of monthly. Next time try to get some freelancing gig before making such a dangerous move. I don't approve your ex boss behaviour but sometimes companies struggle to get your pay check at the end of the month, it really depends on companies. One advice: Being "good with computers" does not means that you're worth a 75K wage. When someone in India does Rails apps cheaper, you need the skills to prove 75K and even more. Having a college degree proves that you've learnt the basic toolset to be able to solve problems, however you can learn it on your own. Your challenge is to prove you posses those skills without a diploma. It's possible, I'm a drop out myself, but it's takes time, effort and networking to get there.
• Bonogongo 11y ago
  As a manager if someone tries to blackmail me with leaving, I usually say "Then leave". Never let people blackmail you. Would I hire someone who swears and uses f* in a conversation with his boss? No. Would I hire someone who creates a blog to make his boss look bad? No. All of this with 4 kids I surely would not trust on you any responsibibility acting so irresponsible. So everyone here who wants to hire this guy, a have nice time. My advice: Try to understand why your boss only wanted you give $45k and work on yourself.
  • ryan-c 11y ago
    Are you this guy's former boss? Saying "pay me $X or I walk" is not "blackmail", it's an ultimatum. Not the same thing.
  • ohwaitnvm 11y ago
    Please slow your roll, you don't need to comment on every single post in here. Also, your definition of blackmail is wrong. From Google: noun: blackmail 1. the action, treated as a criminal offense, of demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person.
  • JungleGymSam 11y ago
    It's not blackmail you nitwit.
  • Joeboy 11y ago
    > Would I hire someone who swears and uses f* in a conversation with his boss? No. Where are you based, out of interest? I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where saying fuck in front of your boss would be any kind of problem whatsoever (in the UK).
    • ryan-c 11y ago
      I'm in the US and in the (admittedly few) jobs I've had in tech swearing hasn't been a problem so long as it's in conversation. Losing one's temper and swearing at someone is a different story, however I'd argue that in that case the problem is the outburst and not the swearing. In general, I would expect tolerance for swearing at work in the US to vary significantly by region, industry, and role.
• Kiro 11y ago
  Something tells me OP is overestimating his coding skills by magnitudes.
• doridori 11y ago
  Your in a good place being a Ruby dev - I went with a family member to a Ruby conf where he was trying to find devs for his startup and there was hardley any devs for hire and about 100 people looking for devs TO hire! Also in the UK ruby contracting has a higer day rate than mobile! Picked a good tech imho :)
• bechampion 11y ago
  In my country we say "Dios aprieta pero no ahorca" which translates to something like "God will hurt you but won't kill you". I wish you all the best , and I'm sure you have a great future coming your way.
• brokedev 11y ago
  My email is blowing up. Sorry I haven't answered anyone, I really didn't expect much of a response and this on top of everything else is overwhelming. I really can't post my personal account names publicly, that would give away the company and, as I've said previously, I do really like the dev team. My team leader has a kid as well and works his ass off, and I want to see that pay off for him when they get through some of the deals they're working on. There are other devs there who are really good people, including one whom I consider a friend. They all depend on it as well. Who am I to fuck with their livelihood to screw with a guy who's going to be rich regardless? Hell, I'm not mad at the CEO either. I don't really understand if he's just forgetful, but he claims in the emails that he never said any of that about my salary. He's been running around to meetings, so I get why I'd be the last thing on his mind. To those wondering about the financials, I know that one of their rivals (with what I consider an inferior product) is in the billion dollar club, and they're set to be profitable very soon.
  • anonfounder1980 11y ago
    You should have tried to get a new job before you asked for the salary increase. Then if he didn't give it to you, you could take the new job. OR if you couldn't find a job that paid what you thought you were worth, then you could just keep gaining valuable work experience.
  • chrisbennet 11y ago
    Don't make excuses for the CEO. He didn't forget because he's a busy guy. He straight up exploited you. "I don't blame my boyfriend, he only beats me when I deserve it." You learn many valuable lessons on that first job. One of them is that if they pay you cheaply initially they will almost never see you as "valuable" after that. It's just human nature. Another lesson is that the best way to get a raise is to switch jobs. HN's patio11 has perhaps the most awesome blog post on salary negotiations. http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ Good luck and stay strong bro.
    • mcv 11y ago
      > You learn many valuable lessons on that first job. One of them is that if they pay you cheaply initially they will almost never see you as "valuable" after that. I remember at my second job, I discovered that a co-worker who worked there longer, made less money than I did, and I considered myself underpaid. And that was actually a pretty nice company with decent founders. The co-worker started there as a student I think, and maybe he was never assertive enough in asking for raises, or maybe a bunch of 5% raises still don't amount to much if you start low enough. Whatever the case, I learned through personal experience that the best way to get a raise is to switch jobs. For some reason, it seems you have more leverage with a prospective employer than with a current one.
• Throwaway10323 11y ago
  4 kids... idiot
  • CmonDev 11y ago
    Might be a religion thing.
    • wyclif 11y ago
      Wait, if someone has 4 children, it's because of religion? That's possibly the stupidest comment I've ever seen on HN, and I've seen a lot.
      • DanBC 11y ago
        Wow this thread is grumpy.
        • wyclif 11y ago
          Not grumpy—the grandparent was being a total ass.
          • DanBC 11y ago
            And you know that you either flag, or downvote, or ignore the asses. (Or some combination.) You don't write a post to call them idiots, even if they are.
            • wyclif 11y ago
              I've been around here a lot longer than you have. I do know, and I have, but sometimes nastiness needs to be called out.
              • DanBC 11y ago
                Sure, but you know that you shouldn't call put nastiness by being nasty.
• vectorEQ 11y ago
  looked for 7 years for a job in IT, got one now in it security.... earn less that i did in factory work stackin boxes and preparing orders... :D welcome to life! theres tons of sites where u can get freelance work easily (truelancer? not sure if it good ,but sites like that can be helpful), if you then get a reputation on there it's ok for some extra money. lots of requests for web/api work to, sounds right up ur alley! on the other hand, u can always look for a job outside of IT. it's perhaps not your dream job ,but money is money. if u need it there's lots of different ways to get it! (legally... not suggesting anyhting bad!) what helped me a lot when i wasn't in IT yet was to get stuff like forklift licence etc. ,that kind of work there always is and it's enough to pay for food and rent for a modest living place. if u then get something 'steady' outside of IT you can start looking of that dream job again ,but this time with less stress which will yield better results. (stress is reflected in meetings job interviews etc. ,so going for that awsome job, you might want to get into a bit more relaxed space before you apply.)
• mikekchar 11y ago
  Sorry to double post in this thread, but I just realized something. You should consult an employment lawyer. Your former boss may actually be liable for improper dismissal. It really depends a lot on the situation and the laws in your area. Any good lawyer in this area will give you a free consultation. This is not legal advice and I am not a lawyer. A qualified lawyer will be able to determine the possible merits of the case. It is not unusual to sue your past employer in these kinds of cases. In some areas it is very common.
• anonfounder1980 11y ago
  I'm sorry, but brokedev did EVERYTHING WRONG here, NOT the CEO. You don't get paid based on what you think you are worth or what other employees think you should be paid. Your salary is set by market forces. And from what I read, this CEO took a chance on brokedev in the first place. He gave him a job doing something that brokedev had no background in and has been compensating him not just with salary but also with work experience that would be hard to get otherwise. I mean really, coming back less than a year later and demanding nearly TWICE the salary? Come on. If brokedev really thought he was being underpaid, he should have tried to silently get another job while he was still employed. Then he could see the market realities for what a programmer with 8 months of work experience is really worth. If he could find a job that offered him $75k, then he could go back to the CEO and say: "I am worth $75k because someone else is willing to pay it, but you were the one who took a chance on me so if you can match the salary I would rather stay with you." Then he wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. It's sad how self-righteous some people are these days. No sense of honor or dignity for themselves or the people who try to help them out.
  • arasmussen 11y ago
    But a raise to 44k? Seems unheard of...
  • krig 11y ago
    To me, the takeaway lesson is this: Never work under unclear conditions. Make sure you have a contract that spells out the conditions you work under and the salary you will be paid. The second you start giving your labor away for free, you've lost the only leverage you have.
  • potatosareok 11y ago
    I am really bothered by your comment esp. since you call yourself "anonfounder", which I assume means you are also a startup founder. I agree brokdev did many things wrong, namely not communicating concretely what he expected his salary to be. I've been in that position before where, because of in my case were insecurities, I did not communicate clearly what pay I was expecting. Secondly, I agree he should have looked for another job before things came to a head like that. Thirdly, he may have been lucky to get that job opportunity initially, although I'm not too familiar with tech hiring markets. However, you clearly say "EVERYTHING", and I think that the company too did things wrong. Just as he did not communicate, the CEO did not communicate what he was projecting. The CEO should have, in my opinion, given a ballpark range at least. I think that it is reasonable otherwise for brokedev to have expected comparable salary to his coworkers, unless something is missing from this story. Secondly, for the CEO, I am bothered that he did not buy the equipment for the guy. How much is 1.5k for company to spend, consider they spend it on every other employee really? That in my opinion is very disrespectful of them. Thirdly, and again I'm giving brokdev the benefit of doubt in how he portrayed the story, the way the CEO handled the firing was in my opinion very unprofessional. Just because a person is in a situation where maybe they do not have a lot of options, doesn't mean that you should take advantage of them. I think brokdev was taken advantage of. Maybe you think same which is why you make throwaway account for your post? to brokdev, my 2 cents: - You should have communicated your salary requirements clearly, even though it might be scary to hear no. Better to get the no sooner rather than later. - Doesn't do much for you but good luck! I unfortunately don't know any positions atm.
• tikumo 11y ago
  I am sensing that you've asked for the 75k a very wrong way. Also first search a new job before you threaten to leave current one, burned bridges and stuff. Did you have a contract and talks preceding the contract?
• timwaagh 11y ago
  pretty silly to think devs get a lot of money. only if you are really good. and with so little experience, you are not going to be much better than me. and i know what i'm getting.
  • wyclif 11y ago
    But his goal is to be a good developer. And good developers do make a lot of money. You don't get experience by whining "oh, I have so little experience!" He just has to keep working, and he'll get there. Baby steps. Everybody has to start from zero in this business.
• dba7dba 11y ago
  brokedev, First, I don't have some of the hardships you have but you have been paid working as a developer, which I've been trying to get to but failed so far. So you are ahead of me. Hope that cheers you up. I recommend following 1. Get examples of your work online somewhere. Quick. It should be neat, professional. Easy to view. It means a real URL like yourname.org or something like it. Check out personal blogs/tutorial sites of other developers to get ideas. I had a hardest time finding a linux support position, because I had been out of work awhile. I think what really helped me get current job was having a blog with examples of my work (scripts/howto) online. You should make it easy for the recruiter/manager/future-coworkers to accurately judge your skill, and resume is worthless. Github is good. But for me, it was a hand coded html/css website. Didn't use wordpress either. Put it up asap but don't spend all your time on it. Put something up quick, go apply for jobs, and keep coming back every few days or once a week to check for typos/improvements to fix/add. The process is much like writing a paper or a book. Remember this URL/website is like your brand. More important than your resume. 2. You mentioned working in a plastic factory before. Now this may sound weird/frivolous, but look at yourself in the mirror. Do you see someone who looks like a tech worker? Or a factory worker? Do you wear t-shirts like the other coders in the office wear? Rails T-shirt? Linux T-shirt? Near haircut? Shaved? A lot of job matching is about image. Do you project the image of a Rails guy? Or a plastic factory guy? 3. You shared your story about your family and your living situation. I'd keep that story away from recruiters/managers/coworkers. Keep it vague. Nothing about shame or being poor. You just want to look like someone who can fit in. Weird but remember the whole culture-fit stuff at tech shops. 4. You said f* to the jackaxx ceo. Please don't do it. Sure, you were upset and he was taking advantage of you when you desperately needed the money for your family (not even for yourself). I know you were not trying to make big bucks to drive a BMW, but rather for your family. Still, no need to say f word to higherups. You don't have to go down to the gutter he's in. Best revenge is living well. And being a Rails coder, it should be relatively easy. Cheers
• bru_ 11y ago
  Look this comes off as totally weak. If you're a strong developer as you claim you have no god damn problem. Tell your wife, "Look these assholes are busting my balls, I'll figure something out within a month" and hustle your ass off and you'll get a job. The market is hot as fuck right now and it is easier than ever to get a high paying job. If you have no university degree and next to no industry experience, 40k is not that far off the mark. But if you're doing the work of a 75ker, you should be able to convince someone you're worth at least say 60k. I find it strange that you had kids before you were making the kind of money you need to support them.
  • wyclif 11y ago
    I find it strange that you had kids before you were making the kind of money you need to support them I hate comments like this one. You're assuming far too much here: that he had children when he was in the same financial position he's in now. I very much doubt that's true.
• vellum 11y ago
  1.) The best time to find a job is when you already have one. Next time, find another job before you quit or make an ultimatum. 2.) Don't spend so much time thinking about why your company is screwing you. People job hop every 2 years, because it's the only way they'll get a 20k raise. Your salary will eventually hit a plateau as you move up, but early in your career, you shouldn't stay too long at one place. 3.) Don't reek of desperation. It's a turn-off to dates and it's a turn-off to interviewers. Ranting with a throwaway account is fine, but don't mention your situation in an interview. 4.) Use your rails skills and scrape indeed's listings for rails jobs in your area. Make a private rails app and filter out all the recruiters and IT staffing firms. Why? A lot of them are just doing arbitrage with the existing listings, and they don't have exclusive access. Do direct applications first, and if you're still not getting hits, then go to recruiters. 5.) Do research on data.jobsintech.io, glassdoor.com, crunchbase.com, and angel.co for company information. Message past devs on linkedin. Oh, and half of all glassdoor reviews are fake and from the HR departments. If they don't talk about negatives or give weak ones, it's usually fake. 6.) If you haven't already, look into your county's social services for any benefits you might qualify for. Your daughter might be eligible for disability benefits, and in the meantime, your family needs to eat.
  • Mikushi 11y ago
    Right, blame the guy for being exploited like so many others. 1/ He did not quit or made any ultimatum. He acted on what was promised, nothing wrong with that. But right you should always lower your head and submit to the startups and their heads. 2/ Typical protection of abusive companies by telling employees who are being openly screwed : "Deal with it". Such a healthy advice, lets not question the ethics and working of most of the tech sector who all have been dipping their toes in shady hiring practices. 3/ Easy to say when you're not living paycheck to paycheck and you see your dream slowly crumble before your eyes because of a company's unacceptable behaviour (acceptable to certain on HN though who probably think the CEO was right). WHile 4 & 5 are valid, your first advices put the entirety of the blame on OP, when in fact that blame lies entirely on the CEO and startup in question. If I were in his position I would have made sure that their name are public and known to prevent others from being exploited.
• etchalon 11y ago
  I really wish posts like these could mention the startup, so I could make note to never do business with them. No matter what transpired between the OP and his boss, that is not how you fire someone with a family. Period. You can hate the guy. You can think he's terrible. You can wish him all the ill in the world, but if there's a family involved, you give them notice and you help them move on. Anything less than that, you're just a selfish asshole.
• gambiting 11y ago
  "And no one started at $40k. The general consensus was that maybe I hadn’t gone to college, but I had proven myself in the past 8 months. I deserved the same starting salary as everyone else, which was about $75,000 " Holy fuck. I work as a full time C++ developer with a couple years of experience now and I make $30k/year. And I have a first class Masters Degree in compute science. Games industry man.
  • rev_bird 11y ago
    > Games industry man. It's a small market with a zillion people who want to work in it. They benefit from "paying" people with "working in the industry they love." That said, $30,000 for 40-hour weeks is now literally less than minimum wage in some states. Seems suspiciously low.
• booruguru 11y ago
  > Sorry for the awful writing. I can’t think straight at all anymore. If the author is reading this, you should know that your post was very lucid and engaging. Much better than most of stuff posted on Tumblr. You seems very capable and determined, you should consider freelancing. Please keep us posted on your progress.
• terryCloth 11y ago
  You don't have what it takes to be a software developer. Please, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop trying to be one. Why? Pick one. It's like the other poster here said: you're doing it all wrong. If you ARE a programming fool (like me for example) go out and find a new gig. Move it! Move it! That's what I tell myself. Then I get my act together and make it happen.
  • AdeptusAquinas 11y ago
    Lot of weird trolls on this comment thread. New accounts to post anonymously. What does that even mean, 'you don't have what it takes to be a software developer'? We work in a professional, respected industry where if anything the OP's boss should be pushed out, not the OP.
    • MisterBastahrd 11y ago
      No, because OP is clearly delusional. He took what other people told him about what he should be making as gospel and then told his boss that he'd have to look for work elsewhere when an offer was made to him, because it was less than his "pie in the sky" number. Pay no attention to the fact that the guy has zero education and less than a year of work experience, or that his company clearly didn't value his production to the level of the other devs due to the fact that he didn't even have a company laptop. Yeah, none of that matters. The only thing that matters is that he was fired. Because clearly, his boss is an evil mastermind who delights in the pain and suffering of uneducated people with overpopulated families and no prior work history. Bottom line: he thinks he's worth 75K. Let's see him get it.
  • aplummer 11y ago
    Do anything except listen to this guy. It sounds like you have exactly what it takes to be a programmer.
  • normloman 11y ago
    "go out and find a new gig. " Isn't that exactly what he's trying to do? "If you ARE a programming fool (like me for example)" You must have a huge penis.
• scarface74 11y ago
  I hate to be that guy, but.... "That I’d been told $75k was reasonable, and that I would have to look for work elsewhere if it was going to be $44k." That was a dumb move. Why tell the boss anything? He should have thanked the boss, gone back to work and started interviewing while he had a job. He let his pride get in his way.
• dig1 11y ago
  Welcome to the modern IT world. First dude, you will need to cheer up, since many of us had been in the same position. As a matter of fact, I've been there couple of times and that is the path of The Professional (learning things on your own skin). Here are couple of my own remarks: 1) You are good dev and teamplayer, as other respected you, just that other guy steal the day somehow. Who knows, maybe he is someone closer to CEO or he managed to sell himself really good (CEOs often think like this: this new guy is expensive, have shiny CV, hence it is good. BMW is expensive and shiny, hence BMW is a good car). 2) I'm sorry you used the word f* during the talk, but it's not bad, this is your first real work after all. To be honest, your destiny has been determined long time ago when CEO started to look for alternative, so no matter how polite, honest or hard working you were, you would get fired at some point. 3) As others mentioned here, don't beg for work. Make your profile/blog looking professional, remove that post we all read here and write about Rails tricks you learn on daily basis. Write about it in weekly or bi-weekly span. Use blog to write about life, your kids and family (under different tag), so recruiters can see how positive you are (also CEOs and recruiters looooove devs with family as they can be easily locked within the company). 4) Start your own small business. You do have experience with plastics plants, go to your previous employer and ask to create a web page or a management tool for him. Offer it for free or a small fee; offer free support. You will see that people will start calling you after some time. Be patient and the work will come. And good luck!
• reustle 11y ago
  I feel like something needs to be said about having _4_ children while bouncing around minimum wage. Everyone knows raising a kid isn't cheap, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to have as many kids as you want (different discussion), but having 4 without the funds to do so seems irresponsible.
  • xiaoma 11y ago
    Children last longer than jobs do.
• graycat 11y ago
  It appears that quite broadly in the US, Asia, and more that single men can just get by and that there's no room for fathers, mothers, children, buying a house instead of renting, etc. E.g., for jobs in the US, fire the fathers and mothers and hire single men at maybe half the salary and work them maybe 80 hours a week. It appears that maybe the situation is better in the Scandinavian countries. Still, in the more advanced countries, e.g., US, England, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, the native populations are going extinct, i.e., not having enough babies. So, there's no room for families, mothers, children. Extinct? In Finland, the average number of children born per woman is 1.5 instead of the minimum for a stable population of 2.1. So, from (2.1/1.5)^10 = 29 in 10 generations 29 Finns will become 1. In at least one area of Spain the number has been less than 1.0 -- some whole villages are deserted and for sale. single men and fire
• UK-AL 11y ago
  You really need to detach yourself emotionally from work. You need act less with emotions and more rationality. When people promise something x in the future, without any official contract I automatically assume that its not going to arrive. It's just carrot. Expect the worst, and be a bit stoic. In many ways less gain now, is better than larger potential gain later because of the risk you take. Don't try to forcefully negotiate, or use ultimatums without any BATNA. When he broke his promise, don't say anything. Find another offer, come back and say I have offer x now, bye. Maybe he will give a counter-offer if he really cared. I've learned this from experience.
  • rev_bird 11y ago
    > When people promise something x in the future, without any official contract I automatically assume that its not going to arrive. This was a painful realization I had to make, and I've pretty recently acted on it even though my employer probably had genuinely positive intentions. It was a short-term change that I'd have loved, but they wouldn't put anything in writing -- even an email -- about a long-term commitment that this would be my new job. I had to not believe them.
• Grue3 11y ago
  So $44600 is considered a low wage? I'm earning 3 times less than that and I have 5 years of experience and graduated from the top university in my country. I'd work for half of this salary if somebody offers me relocation!
  • xentronium 11y ago
    Consider taxes and increased living expenses.
• flipp3r 11y ago
  Well, that sucks for you, and you're stupid for putting emotional baggage online. Its not you boss' fault that you felt entitled for double pay, that you didn't communicate properly, or that you have 4 kids, these are things you just have to deal with now and learn from. Yes your boss was a dick, deal with it. If you want a job fast use linkedin and recruiters to your advantage. There's loads of recruiting companies that are waiting for people like you. Getting a job with some IT skills is very easy, don't expect a well-paying job as a junior ruby tester though and make it clear to recruiters what you need.
• mcv 11y ago
  "Why the fuck didn’t he just tell me what I’d be getting from the beginning?" Because then he'd have been out of a couple of months of cheap labour. You got screwed. He set out to screw you right from the start. It sucks. Not the entire industry is like that, but your boss is clearly an asshole. And worst of it is that there's no way to get payback, because what he did is probably totally legal where you live.
  • rev_bird 11y ago
    There are still plenty of ways to get legal payback, though not in a "slash his tires" kind of way. Personally, I'd LOVE to add this company and its managers to my list of "assholes to never work for." The only pressure we can assert on manipulative employers is to refuse to be their employees. Eventually they'll have to either shape up for fail.
• s73v3r 11y ago
  That company needs to be named and shamed. Seriously, firing him for being "disloyal"? I do believe people were hung for less back in the old days.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• grigri9 11y ago
  You should be reaching out to ALL of your former coworkers as your first priority since it seems like you left on good terms with them. Way more likely to get you a job asap than updating twitter/linkedin/github. If anyone asks I wouldn't go into all this detail and just tell them you were unexpectedly let go. P.S. I made my first comment on HN because it is fucking criminal no one has emphasized this yet.
• novaleaf 11y ago
  Trying to give useful advice here, sorry if it stings. Perhaps you are not worth 75k/year? Just because your friends mention that as a standard salary doesn't mean everyone (you) are at that level. Going in and demanding a 75K salary when you are being offered 40% lower seems to be a poor negotiation strategy in any case. As others here mentioned, if you really want to improve your salary you do so by jumping around, not by forcing your employers hand. Best of luck in your future, and hope you can bounce back from this.
• upbeatlinux 11y ago
  @brokedev - any update on your job search?