6 ms·

Will the new Apple TV be able to play arbitrary files over a network? That would be simply fantastic -- but unlikely.

by malchow 11y ago

superuser2 11y ago
Apple is in the business of selling legal content through iTunes, and to my knowledge there is no way of legally obtaining non-DRMed video files of movies or TV shows. Making piracy more convenient would be a surprising move. However, I wouldn't be surprised if someone was able to use the SDK to write a XBMC-like app.
- robotresearcher 11y ago
  VLC is available from the App Store now. And you can make your own movies or license them from creators in various ways other than the general releases. Also in many places other than the US it is legal to rip content that you bought legally.
  - superuser2 11y ago
    You can indeed make your own movies, and a way to stream from Final Cut to your Apple TV is sorely lacking - AirPlay is too choppy. However, playing generic video files is just about the worst way to support this capability, because you can expect to wait 2-10 hours for your movie to render to a file, even on top-end hardware. The more "Apple" solution to this problem is streaming to an Apple TV app hooked into the Final Cut preview mechanism. You can license movies from creators in ways other than the general release, and I have worked with content obtained this way in auditorium film screenings. You definitely wouldn't use an Apple TV for that, though, you use high-end rackmount DVD/Blu-Ray players, HDCP media servers, or specialized cue playback software so that the audience doesn't see you fumbling with controls - they're on a dedicated interface. Granted there are scenarios other than public exhibition, but if it's for consumption in your living room then it's pretty much by definition general release. Apple is one of the first movers in killing physical media. At this point I don't think you can even buy a Mac with a built-in DVD drive; facilitating playback of ripped DVDs would be pretty low on the priority list. Closest thing I can anticipate would be a way to play videos from your Photos library - intended for the ones you shot on your iPhone. It would probably be possible to import an unencumbered video file there, and stream it across your house with Home Sharing, which has been built into the iLife suite for a few years.
    - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
      I don't think you can even buy a Mac with a built-in DVD drive Yeah, you still can. But probably for not much longer. Your overall point is quite valid. http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- officemonkey 11y ago
  Ripping DVDs you own is legal. And I've spent a lot of time ripping my DVDs to run Plex on my Roku. If Apple doesn't allow this, I'm not buying an Apple TV.
  - modfodder 11y ago
    Apple does allow this, they just have to be in the correct format and loaded into iTunes on you computer. If your computers iTunes and the AppleTV are on the same network you can watch whatever video you have loaded. I do this all the time. It's probably not as easy as the Roku (I assume the Roku allows the playback of a larger variety of codecs) but for me it works perfect as I encode everything in h264 anyway to use for pitches, mood boards, etc as an editor working in advertising (where the majority of creative uses macs).
- gozo 11y ago
  "no way of legally obtaining non-DRMed video files of movies or TV shows" Uhm what? I know the studios are doing their best, but fortunetly non-DRMed video isn't illegal yet. Ripping your own dvd, recording from tv, public domain or cc licensed footage, buying from independent distributors or the authors themselves, video blogs, conference recordings and learning material etc.
  - robotresearcher 11y ago
    I think ripping your own DVD is still illegal in the US under DMCA and WIPO Copyright Treaty countries. DMCA says you can't remove copyright-enforcing measures on your owned media. It's crazy dumb. Someone correct me if this is no longer true, or if I misunderstood it from the DeCSS days.
  - derefr 11y ago
    I think the GP specifically meant "no way of legally purchasing some big-name-production-house-licensed title as a DRM-free digital-native asset", the way you currently can with e.g. iTunes' DRM-free AAC audio files.
  - superuser2 11y ago
    >Ripping your own dvd Tell me with a straight face that Apple gives a shit about DVDs. >recording from tv Fumbling around with capture cards is roughly the opposite of the Apple TV's ethos. >public domain or cc licensed footage, public domain or cc licensed footage, buying from independent distributors or the authors themselves, video blogs, buying learning material etc. Vimeo is already a pretty polished UX for most of the independent film use cases. Offline is a concern on mobile devices but not really relevant to the Apple TV. Also, let's be realistic here, people aren't watching public domain content on their couches day in and day out, they're watching big-name TV shows.
    - unprepare 11y ago
      So if I already bought several standup specials from louisck.net? If I got videos from a kickstarter? If I make videos myself and want to show them to friends? Are stand up comedy fans, kickstarterers, and film creators not part of Apple's target market?
- bluthru 11y ago
  You can already add videos to the iTunes library. They show up under "Home Videos".
Tloewald 11y ago
Sure if you can get your app into the App Store. Why not?
actsasbuffoon 11y ago
I use Airplay to stream anything I can play on my Mac to my AppleTV. I suffered from a bit of lag and occasional syncing issues, so I switched to Beamer, and it's been absolutely rock solid: http://beamer-app.com/ http://beamer-app.com/
lukifer 11y ago
This is already possible (if awkward) using iTunes Home Sharing and a dedicated media server. I wouldn't call it good, but it's good enough. It remains to be seen if it made the cut for the ATV4 (or whatever we're calling it). Though there's a still a legit use case for home movies and such, I'm not particularly optimistic. :(
mikelbring 11y ago
I hope we see Plex.
- acqq 11y ago
  See sbarre's suggestion for the solution for the current devices (!) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10193415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10193415
- wan23 11y ago
  There's a Plex app for jailbroken Apple TVs already, and it's on the app store for iPhone and iPad so I imagine that it will be available for the new Apple TV on day one.
rsynnott 11y ago
Why unlikely? It's presumably just iOS, and there are plenty of iOS apps already existing which can play arbitrary files (assuming they don't have AC3 audio; due to legal disputes most apps are unable to use this) over a network.
- elif 11y ago
  The same reason I can stream this event through VLC but not through the apple website... (linux) the limitations aren't technical, they are overzealous UX and business limitations.
  - comex 11y ago
    There is VLC for iOS.
  - rsynnott 11y ago
    That event is only available via HLS, which never took off in the way that Apple perhaps hoped (it's only supported by Apple stuff, Chrome on Android but not desktop for some reason, Microsoft Edge, and a few random things like VLC). I'm sure they'll shift from it in time, but it's not without its advantages if you don't care about latency; it plays nice with dumb CDNs and caching proxy servers, making it perhaps the cheapest way to stream to a large audience.
atmosx 11y ago
With my XBMC I can download subtitles. Can I do that with AppleTV? I doubt it. Apple TV has a difference audience, than XBMC and PLEX, which I doubt will manage to get. All in all it's not a very successful product so far, we'll see now.
- rimantas 11y ago
  I just turn subtitles on when I watch a movie on Apple TV.
  - derefr 11y ago
    In my experience, the Apple TV's native subtitle rendering (which seems to be identical to QuickTime Player's rendering) is atrocious. It doesn't understand styled subtitles (e.g. separate colors for separate speakers, or bold/italics/etc.), or Unicode characters in subtitles, or subtitle screen-placement directives, and it frequently manages to do stupid things like displaying comment lines left in the subtitle file as if they were part of the text. Watching subtitled video is the main reason I have a Mac Mini plugged into my TV.
  - atmosx 11y ago
    There are no Greek subs for most of iTunes content. If AppleTV was able to fetch subs from opensubtitles.org I'd had a subscription but it doesn't. Plus the fact that some content is not readily available in my country, plus the fact that I must change format for huge load of media makes the entire thing a deal breaker. I won't even start mentioning what XBMC can do that AppleTV can not because it's embarrassing.
- PhantomGremlin 11y ago
  it's not a very successful product so far I guess it depends on your definition of "successful". Apple TV has sold over 25 million units. http://recode.net/2015/01/27/apple-tv-hasnt-changed-in-years-but-has-sold-25-million-units-anyway/ http://recode.net/2015/01/27/apple-tv-hasnt-changed-in-years...

Will the new Apple TV be able to play arbitrary files over a network? That would be simply fantastic -- but unlikely.

by malchow 11y ago

Will the new Apple TV be able to play arbitrary files over a network? That would be simply fantastic -- but unlikely.

Apple is in the business of selling legal content through iTunes, and to my knowledge there is no way of legally obtaining non-DRMed video files of movies or TV shows. Making piracy more convenient would be a surprising move. However, I wouldn't be surprised if someone was able to use the SDK to write a XBMC-like app.

robotresearcher 11y ago
VLC is available from the App Store now. And you can make your own movies or license them from creators in various ways other than the general releases. Also in many places other than the US it is legal to rip content that you bought legally.
- superuser2 11y ago
  You can indeed make your own movies, and a way to stream from Final Cut to your Apple TV is sorely lacking - AirPlay is too choppy. However, playing generic video files is just about the worst way to support this capability, because you can expect to wait 2-10 hours for your movie to render to a file, even on top-end hardware. The more "Apple" solution to this problem is streaming to an Apple TV app hooked into the Final Cut preview mechanism. You can license movies from creators in ways other than the general release, and I have worked with content obtained this way in auditorium film screenings. You definitely wouldn't use an Apple TV for that, though, you use high-end rackmount DVD/Blu-Ray players, HDCP media servers, or specialized cue playback software so that the audience doesn't see you fumbling with controls - they're on a dedicated interface. Granted there are scenarios other than public exhibition, but if it's for consumption in your living room then it's pretty much by definition general release. Apple is one of the first movers in killing physical media. At this point I don't think you can even buy a Mac with a built-in DVD drive; facilitating playback of ripped DVDs would be pretty low on the priority list. Closest thing I can anticipate would be a way to play videos from your Photos library - intended for the ones you shot on your iPhone. It would probably be possible to import an unencumbered video file there, and stream it across your house with Home Sharing, which has been built into the iLife suite for a few years.
  - PhantomGremlin 11y ago
    I don't think you can even buy a Mac with a built-in DVD drive Yeah, you still can. But probably for not much longer. Your overall point is quite valid. http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
officemonkey 11y ago
Ripping DVDs you own is legal. And I've spent a lot of time ripping my DVDs to run Plex on my Roku. If Apple doesn't allow this, I'm not buying an Apple TV.
- modfodder 11y ago
  Apple does allow this, they just have to be in the correct format and loaded into iTunes on you computer. If your computers iTunes and the AppleTV are on the same network you can watch whatever video you have loaded. I do this all the time. It's probably not as easy as the Roku (I assume the Roku allows the playback of a larger variety of codecs) but for me it works perfect as I encode everything in h264 anyway to use for pitches, mood boards, etc as an editor working in advertising (where the majority of creative uses macs).
gozo 11y ago
"no way of legally obtaining non-DRMed video files of movies or TV shows" Uhm what? I know the studios are doing their best, but fortunetly non-DRMed video isn't illegal yet. Ripping your own dvd, recording from tv, public domain or cc licensed footage, buying from independent distributors or the authors themselves, video blogs, conference recordings and learning material etc.
- robotresearcher 11y ago
  I think ripping your own DVD is still illegal in the US under DMCA and WIPO Copyright Treaty countries. DMCA says you can't remove copyright-enforcing measures on your owned media. It's crazy dumb. Someone correct me if this is no longer true, or if I misunderstood it from the DeCSS days.
- derefr 11y ago
  I think the GP specifically meant "no way of legally purchasing some big-name-production-house-licensed title as a DRM-free digital-native asset", the way you currently can with e.g. iTunes' DRM-free AAC audio files.
- superuser2 11y ago
  >Ripping your own dvd Tell me with a straight face that Apple gives a shit about DVDs. >recording from tv Fumbling around with capture cards is roughly the opposite of the Apple TV's ethos. >public domain or cc licensed footage, public domain or cc licensed footage, buying from independent distributors or the authors themselves, video blogs, buying learning material etc. Vimeo is already a pretty polished UX for most of the independent film use cases. Offline is a concern on mobile devices but not really relevant to the Apple TV. Also, let's be realistic here, people aren't watching public domain content on their couches day in and day out, they're watching big-name TV shows.
  - unprepare 11y ago
    So if I already bought several standup specials from louisck.net? If I got videos from a kickstarter? If I make videos myself and want to show them to friends? Are stand up comedy fans, kickstarterers, and film creators not part of Apple's target market?
bluthru 11y ago
You can already add videos to the iTunes library. They show up under "Home Videos".

Tloewald 11y ago

Sure if you can get your app into the App Store. Why not?

actsasbuffoon 11y ago

I use Airplay to stream anything I can play on my Mac to my AppleTV. I suffered from a bit of lag and occasional syncing issues, so I switched to Beamer, and it's been absolutely rock solid: http://beamer-app.com/ http://beamer-app.com/

lukifer 11y ago

This is already possible (if awkward) using iTunes Home Sharing and a dedicated media server. I wouldn't call it good, but it's good enough. It remains to be seen if it made the cut for the ATV4 (or whatever we're calling it). Though there's a still a legit use case for home movies and such, I'm not particularly optimistic. :(

mikelbring 11y ago

I hope we see Plex.

acqq 11y ago
See sbarre's suggestion for the solution for the current devices (!) here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10193415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10193415
wan23 11y ago
There's a Plex app for jailbroken Apple TVs already, and it's on the app store for iPhone and iPad so I imagine that it will be available for the new Apple TV on day one.

rsynnott 11y ago

Why unlikely? It's presumably just iOS, and there are plenty of iOS apps already existing which can play arbitrary files (assuming they don't have AC3 audio; due to legal disputes most apps are unable to use this) over a network.

elif 11y ago
The same reason I can stream this event through VLC but not through the apple website... (linux) the limitations aren't technical, they are overzealous UX and business limitations.
- comex 11y ago
  There is VLC for iOS.
- rsynnott 11y ago
  That event is only available via HLS, which never took off in the way that Apple perhaps hoped (it's only supported by Apple stuff, Chrome on Android but not desktop for some reason, Microsoft Edge, and a few random things like VLC). I'm sure they'll shift from it in time, but it's not without its advantages if you don't care about latency; it plays nice with dumb CDNs and caching proxy servers, making it perhaps the cheapest way to stream to a large audience.

atmosx 11y ago

With my XBMC I can download subtitles. Can I do that with AppleTV? I doubt it. Apple TV has a difference audience, than XBMC and PLEX, which I doubt will manage to get. All in all it's not a very successful product so far, we'll see now.

rimantas 11y ago
I just turn subtitles on when I watch a movie on Apple TV.
- derefr 11y ago
  In my experience, the Apple TV's native subtitle rendering (which seems to be identical to QuickTime Player's rendering) is atrocious. It doesn't understand styled subtitles (e.g. separate colors for separate speakers, or bold/italics/etc.), or Unicode characters in subtitles, or subtitle screen-placement directives, and it frequently manages to do stupid things like displaying comment lines left in the subtitle file as if they were part of the text. Watching subtitled video is the main reason I have a Mac Mini plugged into my TV.
- atmosx 11y ago
  There are no Greek subs for most of iTunes content. If AppleTV was able to fetch subs from opensubtitles.org I'd had a subscription but it doesn't. Plus the fact that some content is not readily available in my country, plus the fact that I must change format for huge load of media makes the entire thing a deal breaker. I won't even start mentioning what XBMC can do that AppleTV can not because it's embarrassing.
PhantomGremlin 11y ago
it's not a very successful product so far I guess it depends on your definition of "successful". Apple TV has sold over 25 million units. http://recode.net/2015/01/27/apple-tv-hasnt-changed-in-years-but-has-sold-25-million-units-anyway/ http://recode.net/2015/01/27/apple-tv-hasnt-changed-in-years...