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The announcements today just make me hang my head in chagrin. I love Apple products. Both my wife and I only use Macbooks, we have multiple iPads, iPods, and

The announcements today just make me hang my head in chagrin. I love Apple products. Both my wife and I only use Macbooks, we have multiple iPads, iPods, and a second generation Apple TV. I look at this iPad Pro though and I see a totally useless device. For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. If you want a tablet form factor then you would be better served buying a Surface, since at least it runs a real operating system designed for "pro" use not the closed eco system that is iOS. I "upgraded" from an iPad to a iPad mini, because I didn't want to carry around such a large device that is just a glorified eReader that I can waste time on with games. Then I "upgraded" again to a Kindle Paperwhite since it's lighter still, the battery lasts forever, I can read it in bright sunlight, and I don't get distracted and waste my time on pointless things like Doodle Jump. Everything else can run on my phone anyway which now comes in tablet sizes if that is what you want. Then the Apple TV. My current generation Apple TV is unplugged and gathering dust while I use the Smart TV, PS4, Xbox 360 (In that order) for my on demand streaming. More and more Apple TV becomes unnecessary as what it does it build into televisions. Why Apple didn't put iTunes on Smart TVs, Roku, game systems, etc... so I could rent/purchase my videos there is beyond me; but now I (along with many others) have moved on to competitors. Almost forgot to mention; this thing doesn't even support UHD? Tim Cook needs a wake up call.

marknutter 11y ago
There's one in every Apple announcement thread.
- bigtunacan 11y ago
  One what? It's unclear what you are trying to convey with this post.
  - apetresc 11y ago
    One person saying "They've finally jumped the shark this time, it's a totally useless device." And then at the next sales-record-breaking keynote, repeat.
    - emp_zealoth 11y ago
      You mean like with the watch gizmo? Or the tv gizmo? This is just overpriced toy, inferior to it's counterparts, but sure, it will sell, thanks to it's swag factor. (Outside of US of A and UK you only see apple stuff on very particular kind of people, the ones that gleefully spend 10x the money on a LV bag, just to rub it in other's faces. Having apple stuff is hip, nothing to do with any sort of usability) Eventually it will come crashing down
      - billforsternz 11y ago
        I live in New Zealand, so not USA or UK. I often coffee at the local university, and sitting there surrounded by poor (but cool) students it is shocking how many of them are using Macbooks. Seriously, you hardly ever see a laptop without a huge glowing apple logo.
        TillE 11y ago
        In Germany, I feel pretty out of place using an iPhone. It's all Android. And yet, basically all the nerds have Macbooks.
  - adevine 11y ago
    One that suggests that, because you personally don't love the Apple-announced product, that Apple is shit and "needs a wake up call". It's not THAT hard to see that a lot of people will like these products, and Apple will sell a shit-ton of them.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      Well, in that case, the word "Apple" is really unnecessary. That's true in pretty much every product announcement thread.
      - bdcravens 11y ago
        Yes, but it seems that Apple tends to bring out the worst in people on both sides (fans and foes)
        happyscrappy 11y ago
        Love and hate are not equivalent. If you hate Apple you are here to troll.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Love and hate are not equivalent. No, but they are symmetric.
        happyscrappy 11y ago
        The asymmetry is that haters are not really interested and just shit all over the discussion.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        That's not asymmetry. The lovers are also not really interested in discussion and are just as prone to pollute it with blind positivity as the haters are to do so with blind negativity.
  - marknutter 11y ago
    The other replies have summed up what I meant well, but I will add that a crucial component of a cynical Apple announcement day post is to preface it with a list of the number of Apple products one has bought in order to establish oneself as an unbiased authority on Apple products. Look back at every single Apple announcement and you'll realize Apple just takes tech that's already out in the marketplace and refines it. They never do what you expected them to do today, and never will.
    - emp_zealoth 11y ago
      You mean strips it off it's usability and charge more? Apple "dominance" is rather endemic, eventually there will be no reason to pay the 100% - 300% markup. Sure, the apple stores look nice, until you see what you actually get for the price
royka118 11y ago
My girlfriend have me have already decided to get one so we can watch Iplayer and YouTube in bed. We already use an iPad but our number one complaint is its too small!
- ant6n 11y ago
  I'd just mount a tv; don't need to hold it.
- humanrebar 11y ago
  The Acer Chromebook 15 is giant, has great battery life, stands itself up, and you can buy two of them for the price of an iPad. No iTunes, but you can get the same content other places.
- thoman23 11y ago
  That's what she said?
  - deleted 11y ago
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    - hugh4 11y ago
      Take it to voat, they need more content.
- yellowapple 11y ago
  If all you want is something with a big screen to watch videos with, there are plenty of cheaper and bigger options out there than a $700 Surface knock-off.
- rhodysurf 11y ago
  Youre going to spend that much money for youtube? Couldn't you do the same with a 35 dollar chromecast?
deleted 11y ago
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austenallred 11y ago
> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying a Macbook Air. Apple has dozens of devices for dozens of use cases and types of buyers. I would never use the new MacBook (not good enough specs), and most of HN thinks it's a terrible idea. But my wife loves it. She doesn't need to run a virtual machine or plug in i/o devices or use 16GB of RAM, and it helps her do what she does better than ever. If you look at Apple keynotes through the lens of, "Will this product change my life?" you'll likely be frequently disappointed - they're building products for a wide spectrum of users. But every now and then, they'll likely absolutely nail what you need. If you buy a Macbook Pro when you need a laptop, it doesn't matter if the Macbook Air isn't for you. Apple still wins.
- bobbles 11y ago
  Yeah I can't wait for this guy to go buy his macbook air and start doing all his fancy graphic design on its non-touch non-retina screen. Obviously the same use cases for both products!
  - 72deluxe 11y ago
    Perhaps there is a market for a stylus/pen for touchpads?
  - bigtunacan 11y ago
    I do all of my graphic design work on Macbook Pro. For certain tasks the mouse is well suited, for others a Wacom tablet or Wacom screen works wonders. The tablet form factor (with a larger screen) does offer a compelling use case for drawing and other art, but in general the tools available are inferior to software available for Mac OSX and Windows. This is where the Surface makes a lot of sense since I can draw/design on the go while having access to best in class software. I'm not a Windows user, but it is for this very reason that I keep thinking of buying a Surface; it's gotten some great reviews from other artists/designers. I also find it discouraging that Apple has introduced their "revolutionary" new Pencil at a $100 price point, but I can't find specs anywhere, and I know I can buy the Wacom Creative Stylus 2 for less money and it has 2048 pressure level sensitivity. Without published specifications it leaves me wondering if the Apple Pencil is less product for more money.
cake 11y ago
I agree, so much useless stuff here. Long gone are the days when Apple produced powerful and exciting new Macs. Now they are catching up and behind... I think my next computer will be a PC again.
- dhimes 11y ago
  Eh, the pc world ain't that great either.
- 72deluxe 11y ago
  What new features would you like though? I can't think of anything I am missing on modern OSes and devices. (Until someone releases something that I use every day of course...) I would agree with the sibling comment here - the PC market isn't that great at the moment
strictnein 11y ago
Yep, I'm in the same boat. Apple devices and laptops, but we've moved on from iTunes to Amazon. Spent thousands in iTunes, still have a small home server running it for us to access it, but every new movie, tv show, or song is now purchased on Amazon. They're available everywhere on basically every device. We've got Rokus on the small TVs and Xbox Ones on the big ones.
davnicwil 11y ago
I'm pretty pleased with the specs on this, because it's perfect for my usecase: I currently use an ipad 4, with its 10" screen, as a second screen for my mpb retina 13. I like this setup because it's thin and relatively light so slots easily into my bag along with my macbook, and doesn't require a power socket to run, just USB. I also use the ipad for reading and a few other tasks so carrying it around has intrinsic value in addition to being a second screen. The ipad 4 does a reasonable job, but it's a bit on the small side. This new pro form factor is, however, perfect - 12.9" and higher res than my mbp retina screen means it really can be a true second screen, with roughly identical capabilities to my main screen. I'm pretty happy about this. Won't be upgrading just yet on account of the price, but when it drops enough, replacing my current ipad with this will be a no-brainer.
- jalons 11y ago
  Which utility are you using to treat it as a second screen? I've had modest luck with duet.
  - davnicwil 11y ago
    I'm using Duet too. It's a little quirky - the most annoying bugs are unpredictable disconnections and occasionally screen freezes, this seems to happen mostly when my macbook locks and reopens. But these things don't happen regularly enough that it causes a major problem for me. It's a bit annoying but I can deal with it. One thing to note for anyone considering it - it performs really well at displaying text. Things like tailing logs, or displaying docs. However, anything involving typing and using the mouse is a bit painful compared to your main screen because the lag can be tedious and uncomfortable for fast interactions. In addition, I keep the refresh rate at 30Hz when on battery to save power, which compounds this issue.
    - jalons 11y ago
      I've seen those issues as well. I it Duet more as a second display more on my win8.1 laptop, and have very strange 'disconnects' - the iPad screen just randomly goes berserk and technicolor, and I have to quit the app and restart to get it picked up. This usually happens around the same times iTunes tells me there's an update, so guessing it's related.
rsynnott 11y ago
> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. Fortunately, the Macbook Air still exists, so you can buy that. I wouldn't personally really have a use for this thing either, but I'm sure some people would.
DamnInteresting 11y ago
It depends on one's use cases. I use an iPad Air for two main tasks: 1) to sketch and "paint" (using ArtRage); and 2) to make music in various apps. For these applications, screen size trumps portability (larger canvas for art, wider screen for audio timelines and more keys on keyboards). I don't think I'm going to upgrade anytime soon, but when I am looking for a newer tablet, the iPad Pro will tempt me.
- foogered 11y ago
  Exactly. I think Apple is primarily trying to attract artists and other creative types with the Pro. A good friend of mine is planning on giving up his Wacom and moving to an iPad Pro instead.
rsync 11y ago
"since at least it runs a real operating system designed for "pro" use not the closed eco system that is iOS." So, if a big ipad like this is a "pro" device, where does a fully functional computing device, running UNIX, that you interact with on the command line fit in ? I'm speaking of (for instance) my mac pro running OSX. If what we see today is for "pros", then two questions come to mind: 1. What am I ? A wizard ? A demi-god ? A great elder ? 2. Can I reasonably expect Apple to make products for wizards ? Is there any money in that ?
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  It's 'pro' within the segment it's in, which is the tablet segment, not the laptop or desktop segment. Just like if they come out with an iPhone with power-user features for professional/enterprise usage, it's reasonably to call it a 'pro' line within the phone segment, without necessarily implying it's a more functional device than say a fully fledged desktop called a Mac Pro. I don't really see the issue but I get what you're saying. And it does have some of that functionality, from a large screen, type cover keyboard, stylus to multi-tasking. That's not 'pro' in all industries (e.g. in software it's not), but if you're in marketing or say one-on-one tutoring or sales, I can imagine there are professional use cases reasonably enough to call it 'pro'. Either way I'm not really convinced, still feels like a terribly niche item, not really useful to most professionals (who'd I'd think, prefer light laptops and/or small tablets in combination with a growing presence of now ~5 inch phones and smartwatches) either. Sure it's a nice device but is it going to turn around tablet sales for Apple? I'm not convinced. I just don't see a 13 inch screen beating say the MBAs or Surface 2s of the world. Mostly I just feel like expensive tablets are a thing of the past. Tablets kind of filled this niche role in between phones and laptops, until phones became bigger (4 years ago the iPhone was 3.5 inches, then 4 inches, then 4.7 and now the biggest is 5.5), and laptops became not necessarily much smaller (although they did, 11 and 12 inch form factors are super popular, versus the more traditional 15 and 17, or the old 12' powerbooks with huge bezels that are bigger than 15 inch macbooks today), but much, much lighter and with solid battery life and SSD ubiquity. I just feel there's no real room anymore for expensive tablets, there's still room (1) very niche uses and (2) dirt cheap tablets, plenty of room for a random 'good enough' tablet for at home to read the news that don't cost $800. I mean hell the freaking keyboard is $170, the pencil $100 and the tablet $800, obviously you want cellular, too, as a pro user, that's $1080. So now we're at $1350 for an iPad pro with a keyboard and stylus that's still sub-par to other solutions. Anyway I don't have many doubts I'll be proven wrong, they don't just build random stuff without a ton of focus group data and conversations with business users, but I'm not really seeing it right now.
mnglkhn2 11y ago
Apple is moving full steam towards enterprise. All these partnerships with IBM and the like are to push iOS tablets into the corporate world. iPad Pro is at a perfect price point and feature set for businesses. Healthcare, retail and entertainment are industries that will embrace it fully.
- tonycoco 11y ago
  You can already see it in action. Go to a Tesla showroom, a boutique clothier, a Square-enabled café, etc. They are all embracing the iPad as a multi-functional device. Oh, and those aren't usually even considered "enterprise" clients.
camillomiller 11y ago
This comment is exactly why HN won't never understand anything about Apple announcements. Highly technical folks, unable to get out of their technical bias, reprimanding the extremely successful decision makers of a successful company because they pretend to know the matter, while completely ignoring the real world scenarios that actually drive Apple products sales.
- rythie 11y ago
  It's the standard ". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. " response. http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip...
  - AndrewKemendo 11y ago
    To be fair, I liked my Nomad Zen Xtra way better than the 1-3rd Gen iPod.
    - Gigablah 11y ago
      The Nomad II was my dream gadget. I absolutely loved it.
- halayli 11y ago
  Suddenly, they are industry and product experts. Generally, HNers are experts about any topic.
- shas3 11y ago
  Even taking usability into account, an argument can be made that iPad Pro is neither here nor there. Consider a simple use case: let's say iPad Pro is the sole enterprise device handed out to employees at a company. AFAIK, even a simple thing like compressing multiple files (given irrational attachment size limits won't be going away any time soon) and sending them via email will be impossible given how closed and pared down iOS really is. How will you do file management? What about specific applications (e.g. Solidworks)? They will have to be re-done for iOS, which could be a pretty hard thing for small vendors. iPad Pro and the new iOS will have to be step change over iPad Air and current iOS to be appealing as a laptop replacement. The new iOS must be so near to OS X as for the difference to be immaterial. On the other hand, a Surface Pro is truly a replacement for a laptop as it features a full blown Windows 8 (or 10, now).
macjohnmcc 11y ago
They will never make a device that appeals to everybody. Nor should they try. That Macbook Air won't serve as a graphics tablet. The Surface Pro 3 (I have one with the i7 and 256GB) is a clunky heavy difficult to hold thing with an less than great OS experience (with either 8.1 or 10). I'd be okay with the clunky part if the OS experience was great.
- anjc 11y ago
  The SP3 is thicker by 2mm and is smaller on the other axes, and is 70g heavier. That's clunky?
  - macjohnmcc 11y ago
    Clunky is the edges of the device. I find holding it to be uncomfortable due to the relatively pointy edges. Unless I put it in a case which I don't because I have the docking station.
MBCook 11y ago
> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. Unless of course you want a 12" screen with a digitizer, then that Air is useless to you without some very expensive 3rd party hardware. > If you want a tablet form factor then you would be better served buying a Surface [...] The iPad pro is a tablet. > [...] since at least it runs a real operating system designed for "pro" use not the closed eco system that is iOS. Yeah, there's the rub. The only thing is many people don't care. Do you know why businesses bought Macs in the early 90s? To run Photoshop or Quark Xpress or Pagemaker. The workers didn't need computers, they needed things that ran Photoshop. What happened when Photoshop couldn't keep up on the Mac since Intel was racing ahead? Many companies bought PCs to run Photoshop. Tons and tons of people don't care about the OS. In fact the simplicity of iOS may be a boon to them. They're probably using Adobe Creative Cloud anyway. Tablet? Light? Runs software they care about? Works well? They'll buy it. > My current generation Apple TV is unplugged and gathering dust while I use the Smart TV, PS4, Xbox 360 (In that order) for my on demand streaming. That's because the current Apple TV sucks. It was fine once, but it's basically been unchanged for about 5 years. They're fixing that. I don't know about you, but the "Smart TV" stuff built into my TV is terribly slow. And I don't want to boot a full console to stream a little video. Many people don't even own game consoles. > Why Apple didn't put iTunes on Smart TVs See previous paragraph about smart TVs sucking. Apple has learned it's lesson (see Motorola ROKR). > Almost forgot to mention; this thing doesn't even support UHD? And I'm sure the 1% of the population with 4k TVs and fast enough internet connections is really sad about that. Of course iTunes doesn't even have 4k content, but surely their box should play it right? After all it will never be updated again. They did the same thing with 1080p support. It will come when there is more demand. > Tim Cook needs a wake up call. That's pretty hyperbolic, don't you think?
billconan 11y ago
I draw, I like the ipad pro and will get one. I own surface 3 pro also for the same reason. But I don't like it and it can be bigger.
- y_u_no_rust 11y ago
  the 14 inch surface pro is only a month or so away
jsz0 11y ago
> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. For some people's needs sure. I think that's why Apple sells the MacBook / MacBook Air?
72deluxe 11y ago
Also, let's hope the new Apple TV supports HDMI CEC so I don't need to tell the TV to change to another device!

marknutter 11y ago

There's one in every Apple announcement thread.

bigtunacan 11y ago
One what? It's unclear what you are trying to convey with this post.
- apetresc 11y ago
  One person saying "They've finally jumped the shark this time, it's a totally useless device." And then at the next sales-record-breaking keynote, repeat.
  - emp_zealoth 11y ago
    You mean like with the watch gizmo? Or the tv gizmo? This is just overpriced toy, inferior to it's counterparts, but sure, it will sell, thanks to it's swag factor. (Outside of US of A and UK you only see apple stuff on very particular kind of people, the ones that gleefully spend 10x the money on a LV bag, just to rub it in other's faces. Having apple stuff is hip, nothing to do with any sort of usability) Eventually it will come crashing down
    - billforsternz 11y ago
      I live in New Zealand, so not USA or UK. I often coffee at the local university, and sitting there surrounded by poor (but cool) students it is shocking how many of them are using Macbooks. Seriously, you hardly ever see a laptop without a huge glowing apple logo.
      - TillE 11y ago
        In Germany, I feel pretty out of place using an iPhone. It's all Android. And yet, basically all the nerds have Macbooks.
- adevine 11y ago
  One that suggests that, because you personally don't love the Apple-announced product, that Apple is shit and "needs a wake up call". It's not THAT hard to see that a lot of people will like these products, and Apple will sell a shit-ton of them.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    Well, in that case, the word "Apple" is really unnecessary. That's true in pretty much every product announcement thread.
    - bdcravens 11y ago
      Yes, but it seems that Apple tends to bring out the worst in people on both sides (fans and foes)
      - happyscrappy 11y ago
        Love and hate are not equivalent. If you hate Apple you are here to troll.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Love and hate are not equivalent. No, but they are symmetric.
        happyscrappy 11y ago
        The asymmetry is that haters are not really interested and just shit all over the discussion.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        That's not asymmetry. The lovers are also not really interested in discussion and are just as prone to pollute it with blind positivity as the haters are to do so with blind negativity.
- marknutter 11y ago
  The other replies have summed up what I meant well, but I will add that a crucial component of a cynical Apple announcement day post is to preface it with a list of the number of Apple products one has bought in order to establish oneself as an unbiased authority on Apple products. Look back at every single Apple announcement and you'll realize Apple just takes tech that's already out in the marketplace and refines it. They never do what you expected them to do today, and never will.
  - emp_zealoth 11y ago
    You mean strips it off it's usability and charge more? Apple "dominance" is rather endemic, eventually there will be no reason to pay the 100% - 300% markup. Sure, the apple stores look nice, until you see what you actually get for the price

royka118 11y ago

My girlfriend have me have already decided to get one so we can watch Iplayer and YouTube in bed. We already use an iPad but our number one complaint is its too small!

ant6n 11y ago
I'd just mount a tv; don't need to hold it.
humanrebar 11y ago
The Acer Chromebook 15 is giant, has great battery life, stands itself up, and you can buy two of them for the price of an iPad. No iTunes, but you can get the same content other places.
thoman23 11y ago
That's what she said?
- deleted 11y ago
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  - hugh4 11y ago
    Take it to voat, they need more content.
yellowapple 11y ago
If all you want is something with a big screen to watch videos with, there are plenty of cheaper and bigger options out there than a $700 Surface knock-off.
rhodysurf 11y ago
Youre going to spend that much money for youtube? Couldn't you do the same with a 35 dollar chromecast?

deleted 11y ago

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austenallred 11y ago

> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying a Macbook Air. Apple has dozens of devices for dozens of use cases and types of buyers. I would never use the new MacBook (not good enough specs), and most of HN thinks it's a terrible idea. But my wife loves it. She doesn't need to run a virtual machine or plug in i/o devices or use 16GB of RAM, and it helps her do what she does better than ever. If you look at Apple keynotes through the lens of, "Will this product change my life?" you'll likely be frequently disappointed - they're building products for a wide spectrum of users. But every now and then, they'll likely absolutely nail what you need. If you buy a Macbook Pro when you need a laptop, it doesn't matter if the Macbook Air isn't for you. Apple still wins.

bobbles 11y ago
Yeah I can't wait for this guy to go buy his macbook air and start doing all his fancy graphic design on its non-touch non-retina screen. Obviously the same use cases for both products!
- 72deluxe 11y ago
  Perhaps there is a market for a stylus/pen for touchpads?
- bigtunacan 11y ago
  I do all of my graphic design work on Macbook Pro. For certain tasks the mouse is well suited, for others a Wacom tablet or Wacom screen works wonders. The tablet form factor (with a larger screen) does offer a compelling use case for drawing and other art, but in general the tools available are inferior to software available for Mac OSX and Windows. This is where the Surface makes a lot of sense since I can draw/design on the go while having access to best in class software. I'm not a Windows user, but it is for this very reason that I keep thinking of buying a Surface; it's gotten some great reviews from other artists/designers. I also find it discouraging that Apple has introduced their "revolutionary" new Pencil at a $100 price point, but I can't find specs anywhere, and I know I can buy the Wacom Creative Stylus 2 for less money and it has 2048 pressure level sensitivity. Without published specifications it leaves me wondering if the Apple Pencil is less product for more money.

cake 11y ago

I agree, so much useless stuff here. Long gone are the days when Apple produced powerful and exciting new Macs. Now they are catching up and behind... I think my next computer will be a PC again.

dhimes 11y ago
Eh, the pc world ain't that great either.
72deluxe 11y ago
What new features would you like though? I can't think of anything I am missing on modern OSes and devices. (Until someone releases something that I use every day of course...) I would agree with the sibling comment here - the PC market isn't that great at the moment

strictnein 11y ago

Yep, I'm in the same boat. Apple devices and laptops, but we've moved on from iTunes to Amazon. Spent thousands in iTunes, still have a small home server running it for us to access it, but every new movie, tv show, or song is now purchased on Amazon. They're available everywhere on basically every device. We've got Rokus on the small TVs and Xbox Ones on the big ones.

davnicwil 11y ago

I'm pretty pleased with the specs on this, because it's perfect for my usecase: I currently use an ipad 4, with its 10" screen, as a second screen for my mpb retina 13. I like this setup because it's thin and relatively light so slots easily into my bag along with my macbook, and doesn't require a power socket to run, just USB. I also use the ipad for reading and a few other tasks so carrying it around has intrinsic value in addition to being a second screen. The ipad 4 does a reasonable job, but it's a bit on the small side. This new pro form factor is, however, perfect - 12.9" and higher res than my mbp retina screen means it really can be a true second screen, with roughly identical capabilities to my main screen. I'm pretty happy about this. Won't be upgrading just yet on account of the price, but when it drops enough, replacing my current ipad with this will be a no-brainer.

jalons 11y ago
Which utility are you using to treat it as a second screen? I've had modest luck with duet.
- davnicwil 11y ago
  I'm using Duet too. It's a little quirky - the most annoying bugs are unpredictable disconnections and occasionally screen freezes, this seems to happen mostly when my macbook locks and reopens. But these things don't happen regularly enough that it causes a major problem for me. It's a bit annoying but I can deal with it. One thing to note for anyone considering it - it performs really well at displaying text. Things like tailing logs, or displaying docs. However, anything involving typing and using the mouse is a bit painful compared to your main screen because the lag can be tedious and uncomfortable for fast interactions. In addition, I keep the refresh rate at 30Hz when on battery to save power, which compounds this issue.
  - jalons 11y ago
    I've seen those issues as well. I it Duet more as a second display more on my win8.1 laptop, and have very strange 'disconnects' - the iPad screen just randomly goes berserk and technicolor, and I have to quit the app and restart to get it picked up. This usually happens around the same times iTunes tells me there's an update, so guessing it's related.

rsynnott 11y ago

> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. Fortunately, the Macbook Air still exists, so you can buy that. I wouldn't personally really have a use for this thing either, but I'm sure some people would.

DamnInteresting 11y ago

It depends on one's use cases. I use an iPad Air for two main tasks: 1) to sketch and "paint" (using ArtRage); and 2) to make music in various apps. For these applications, screen size trumps portability (larger canvas for art, wider screen for audio timelines and more keys on keyboards). I don't think I'm going to upgrade anytime soon, but when I am looking for a newer tablet, the iPad Pro will tempt me.

foogered 11y ago
Exactly. I think Apple is primarily trying to attract artists and other creative types with the Pro. A good friend of mine is planning on giving up his Wacom and moving to an iPad Pro instead.

rsync 11y ago

"since at least it runs a real operating system designed for "pro" use not the closed eco system that is iOS." So, if a big ipad like this is a "pro" device, where does a fully functional computing device, running UNIX, that you interact with on the command line fit in ? I'm speaking of (for instance) my mac pro running OSX. If what we see today is for "pros", then two questions come to mind: 1. What am I ? A wizard ? A demi-god ? A great elder ? 2. Can I reasonably expect Apple to make products for wizards ? Is there any money in that ?

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
It's 'pro' within the segment it's in, which is the tablet segment, not the laptop or desktop segment. Just like if they come out with an iPhone with power-user features for professional/enterprise usage, it's reasonably to call it a 'pro' line within the phone segment, without necessarily implying it's a more functional device than say a fully fledged desktop called a Mac Pro. I don't really see the issue but I get what you're saying. And it does have some of that functionality, from a large screen, type cover keyboard, stylus to multi-tasking. That's not 'pro' in all industries (e.g. in software it's not), but if you're in marketing or say one-on-one tutoring or sales, I can imagine there are professional use cases reasonably enough to call it 'pro'. Either way I'm not really convinced, still feels like a terribly niche item, not really useful to most professionals (who'd I'd think, prefer light laptops and/or small tablets in combination with a growing presence of now ~5 inch phones and smartwatches) either. Sure it's a nice device but is it going to turn around tablet sales for Apple? I'm not convinced. I just don't see a 13 inch screen beating say the MBAs or Surface 2s of the world. Mostly I just feel like expensive tablets are a thing of the past. Tablets kind of filled this niche role in between phones and laptops, until phones became bigger (4 years ago the iPhone was 3.5 inches, then 4 inches, then 4.7 and now the biggest is 5.5), and laptops became not necessarily much smaller (although they did, 11 and 12 inch form factors are super popular, versus the more traditional 15 and 17, or the old 12' powerbooks with huge bezels that are bigger than 15 inch macbooks today), but much, much lighter and with solid battery life and SSD ubiquity. I just feel there's no real room anymore for expensive tablets, there's still room (1) very niche uses and (2) dirt cheap tablets, plenty of room for a random 'good enough' tablet for at home to read the news that don't cost $800. I mean hell the freaking keyboard is $170, the pencil $100 and the tablet $800, obviously you want cellular, too, as a pro user, that's $1080. So now we're at $1350 for an iPad pro with a keyboard and stylus that's still sub-par to other solutions. Anyway I don't have many doubts I'll be proven wrong, they don't just build random stuff without a ton of focus group data and conversations with business users, but I'm not really seeing it right now.

mnglkhn2 11y ago

Apple is moving full steam towards enterprise. All these partnerships with IBM and the like are to push iOS tablets into the corporate world. iPad Pro is at a perfect price point and feature set for businesses. Healthcare, retail and entertainment are industries that will embrace it fully.

tonycoco 11y ago
You can already see it in action. Go to a Tesla showroom, a boutique clothier, a Square-enabled café, etc. They are all embracing the iPad as a multi-functional device. Oh, and those aren't usually even considered "enterprise" clients.

camillomiller 11y ago

This comment is exactly why HN won't never understand anything about Apple announcements. Highly technical folks, unable to get out of their technical bias, reprimanding the extremely successful decision makers of a successful company because they pretend to know the matter, while completely ignoring the real world scenarios that actually drive Apple products sales.

rythie 11y ago
It's the standard ". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. " response. http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip...
- AndrewKemendo 11y ago
  To be fair, I liked my Nomad Zen Xtra way better than the 1-3rd Gen iPod.
  - Gigablah 11y ago
    The Nomad II was my dream gadget. I absolutely loved it.
halayli 11y ago
Suddenly, they are industry and product experts. Generally, HNers are experts about any topic.
shas3 11y ago
Even taking usability into account, an argument can be made that iPad Pro is neither here nor there. Consider a simple use case: let's say iPad Pro is the sole enterprise device handed out to employees at a company. AFAIK, even a simple thing like compressing multiple files (given irrational attachment size limits won't be going away any time soon) and sending them via email will be impossible given how closed and pared down iOS really is. How will you do file management? What about specific applications (e.g. Solidworks)? They will have to be re-done for iOS, which could be a pretty hard thing for small vendors. iPad Pro and the new iOS will have to be step change over iPad Air and current iOS to be appealing as a laptop replacement. The new iOS must be so near to OS X as for the difference to be immaterial. On the other hand, a Surface Pro is truly a replacement for a laptop as it features a full blown Windows 8 (or 10, now).

macjohnmcc 11y ago

They will never make a device that appeals to everybody. Nor should they try. That Macbook Air won't serve as a graphics tablet. The Surface Pro 3 (I have one with the i7 and 256GB) is a clunky heavy difficult to hold thing with an less than great OS experience (with either 8.1 or 10). I'd be okay with the clunky part if the OS experience was great.

anjc 11y ago
The SP3 is thicker by 2mm and is smaller on the other axes, and is 70g heavier. That's clunky?
- macjohnmcc 11y ago
  Clunky is the edges of the device. I find holding it to be uncomfortable due to the relatively pointy edges. Unless I put it in a case which I don't because I have the docking station.

MBCook 11y ago

> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. Unless of course you want a 12" screen with a digitizer, then that Air is useless to you without some very expensive 3rd party hardware. > If you want a tablet form factor then you would be better served buying a Surface [...] The iPad pro is a tablet. > [...] since at least it runs a real operating system designed for "pro" use not the closed eco system that is iOS. Yeah, there's the rub. The only thing is many people don't care. Do you know why businesses bought Macs in the early 90s? To run Photoshop or Quark Xpress or Pagemaker. The workers didn't need computers, they needed things that ran Photoshop. What happened when Photoshop couldn't keep up on the Mac since Intel was racing ahead? Many companies bought PCs to run Photoshop. Tons and tons of people don't care about the OS. In fact the simplicity of iOS may be a boon to them. They're probably using Adobe Creative Cloud anyway. Tablet? Light? Runs software they care about? Works well? They'll buy it. > My current generation Apple TV is unplugged and gathering dust while I use the Smart TV, PS4, Xbox 360 (In that order) for my on demand streaming. That's because the current Apple TV sucks. It was fine once, but it's basically been unchanged for about 5 years. They're fixing that. I don't know about you, but the "Smart TV" stuff built into my TV is terribly slow. And I don't want to boot a full console to stream a little video. Many people don't even own game consoles. > Why Apple didn't put iTunes on Smart TVs See previous paragraph about smart TVs sucking. Apple has learned it's lesson (see Motorola ROKR). > Almost forgot to mention; this thing doesn't even support UHD? And I'm sure the 1% of the population with 4k TVs and fast enough internet connections is really sad about that. Of course iTunes doesn't even have 4k content, but surely their box should play it right? After all it will never be updated again. They did the same thing with 1080p support. It will come when there is more demand. > Tim Cook needs a wake up call. That's pretty hyperbolic, don't you think?

billconan 11y ago

I draw, I like the ipad pro and will get one. I own surface 3 pro also for the same reason. But I don't like it and it can be bigger.

y_u_no_rust 11y ago
the 14 inch surface pro is only a month or so away

jsz0 11y ago

> For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying an Macbook Air. For some people's needs sure. I think that's why Apple sells the MacBook / MacBook Air?

72deluxe 11y ago

Also, let's hope the new Apple TV supports HDMI CEC so I don't need to tell the TV to change to another device!