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"Who wants a stylus? You have to get 'em, put 'em away, you lose 'em. Yuck! Nobody wants a stylus. So let's not use a stylus." -Steve Jobs
by gorena 11y ago
"Who wants a stylus? You have to get 'em, put 'em away, you lose 'em. Yuck! Nobody wants a stylus. So let's not use a stylus."
-Steve Jobs
- nsxwolf 11y agoOn a 3.5 inch screen? Yeah, the stylus was terrible for that. Touch screen interfaces were held back for years because everyone blindly used a stylus as the primary input device. This is for a much larger screen, and it is an accessory and not the primary input device.
- dimgl 11y agoWhile I do agree Jobs was saying that no one wants to use a stylus to use their devices, you have to admit this stylus is a pretty good idea. With the additional sensors you can actually do things you can't do with traditional styluses and you're not forced to use it with your device, it's just an add-on.
- wnevets 11y ago> While I do agree Jobs was saying that no one wants to use a stylus to use their devices, you have to admit this stylus is a pretty good idea. The apple distortion field is running at maximum.
- oblio 11y agoThese aren't the styluses you are looking for...
- revscat 11y agoNo. No one wants to be required to use a stylus to successfully use a device. This is true, and remains so. What has become apparent is that there is a need -- especially for artists -- for a tool more fine-grained than a finger if you want to do more complicated tasks.
- FilterSweep 11y ago> especially for artists See also (from this same thread): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10192958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10192958
- vacri 11y agoNice injection of the word 'required' there...
- Retra 11y agoArtists could also use electronic paint brushes, erasers, and chalk, too.
- misterdata 11y agoHe said this at the iPhone unveiling. For an iPad, a stylus makes a lot more sense imo.
- ant6n 11y agoAnd it's not a Wacom-like active digitizer, you need to actually charge this thing. I feel the stylus that came with Windows XP tablet edition in 2002 was probably better than this.
- chinathrow 11y agoYeah the force sensor is in the pencil, not in the screen.
- drivers99 11y agoWacom force sensors are also in the pencil, but they get their power through induction or something from the tablet.
- ant6n 11y agoexactly (that's why they are called 'active digitizer')
- steckerbrett 11y agoInduction basically.
- ChrisClark 11y agoAnd everyone else uses batteries because of Wacom patents. At least that was the case 5 years ago.
- Gracana 11y agoOh, is that why? I thought current multi-touch technology interfered with the Wacom-style force sensor, but I could have imagined that.
- redxdev 11y agoNope. Surface Pro 1 (and 2?) used Wacom tech, had 10-point multitouch, and the stylus didn't need batteries or recharging. The induction stuff that Wacom does is pretty cool.
- MBCook 11y agoFor navigating and general use on a 3.5" screen, he was dead on. For drawing on a screen of any size, especially a 12" one, the stylus makes plenty of sense.
- inversionOf 11y agoHe was talking about the iPad at the time. Further his statement was the existence of a stylus, not the necessity of it. http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-... He specifically refers to the iPad in the actual quote. Anyone claiming otherwise is simply wrong or a revisionist, though such sorts seep out of the woodwork whenever Apple cedes prior claims, rephrasing and adding unspoken criteria to somehow make it prescient and relevant, seen throughout this discussion.
- Hurdy 11y agoNo, the quote is from the first iPhone presentation. He did say something similar though when they unveiled the iPad.
- Vendan 11y agoheh, I have a note 4, with an integrated stylus. I love the thing. I'm more accurate and faster typing on the keyboard with it then I am with my thumbs, and it's a toss when swype style stuff guesses right. If I have to reswype a word, I would've been faster using the stylus
- prodmerc 11y agoOh please, a stylus worked better on my old 3.5 inch PDA than any stupid touch gestures do for my 4.7 inch Android phone. Arrows on the keyboard? What the fuck are arrows? Marketing just pushed styli (?) and hardware keyboards out, the latter is something I really miss on my phone...
- josefresco 11y agoAaaaand there it is.
- gress 11y agoHe was right for phones. You are quoting him out of context. Why?
- mmahemoff 11y agoThis quote - The whole of Twitter right now But, this is just an accessory. See also: beats headphones, smart case. Unlike the comedy "smartphone" attempts of 2005 which Steve Jobs was alluding to, you may still freely use your fingers.
- soylentcola 11y agoComedy "smartphone" attempts? I had a couple of smart phones before the iPhone came out and they offered several things it didn't. The fact that capacitive touchscreens and GPU acceleration weren't as good yet doesn't make them "comedy attempts". More like the incremental developments that provided the base which the iPhone was built upon. Ignoring the fact that it's all moot now, I was doing GPS navigation, multitasking, audio streaming, and rudimentary video calling on some of those "comedy attempts" from 2005-2007 and I did a lot of it with my fingers as well. The iPhone improved on the touch aspect quite a bit but it's not as if it wasn't missing 10 other things that were common to smartphones of the time. And that only makes sense. It's good business to focus on the things your competition isn't doing as it allows you to target different parts of the market.
- matthewmacleod 11y agoGreat. I love it when a company re-evaluates and introduces technology they previously said was a bad idea, but have reconsidered. More of this sort of thing!
- seiji 11y agoWe have to consider context as well. The original stylus comment was for a 3.5" pocket phone. Previously, things like Palm Treo or Windows Mobile devices required a stylus to touch the resistive sensing screen. That is the baseline. Anybody taking the quotes out of historical context is just trying to incite an argument and pretend they are better than Tim Cook. Nobody is better than Tim Cook.
- FireBeyond 11y agoThe original comment. Yes. And then at the launch of the iPad - "if you see a stylus, you blew it".
- StillBored 11y agoUh the treo didn't _REQUIRE_ a stylus, it worked when poked at with a fingernail. Which was fine for course operations with big buttons. The problems were things drawn as 4x4 pixel targets (or something equally insane). But that problem still exists to a certain extent. I have to be really careful with the iphone onscreen keyboard because my finger (above average hand size) easily covers multiple buttons. Unlike my wife, who's fingers apparently are the target audience. The cheap little iphone stylus can definitely help.
- makeitsuckless 11y agoHence, it's not a stylus, but an actual active pencil-like device for drawing. But yeah, lets not let the facts get in the way.
- greatergoodguy 11y agoHere is the definition of stylus. Stylus noun, plural styli [stahy-lahy] (Show IPA), styluses. 2) any of various pointed, pen-shaped instruments used in drawing, artwork, etc. 3) Computers. a pen-shaped device used on a display screen to input commands or handwritten text or drawings. Compare joystick (def 2), mouse (def 4). But yeah, lets not let the facts get in the way.
- benihana 11y agoYeah thanks. He also told Tim Cook not to make decisions based on what Tim thought Steve would have done. Which nobody on twitter seems to remember when they post this quote.
- bane 11y agoThis is Apple definitely responding to high-end pressure from increasingly successful Surfaces in the same way the iPad mini was a response to pressure from the low-end by small Android tablets. This is basically Apple saying "let's make a Surface with a bigger screen and do it the Apple way". It's weird seeing Microsoft participate in it. Other than size, there's not much that Android tablets need to respond to, there's already been large high-end Android tablets with great pen input (no angle detection, but they're all Watcom class). What I think was most interesting here was the incessant pitch that this is a productivity device not a media consumption device. For the full experience you're looking at: $800 for the pad $100 for the pencil $170 for the keyboardcase And we're in low-end laptop territory without necessarily cannibalizing their laptop business, but it fires shots across the bow of also increasingly popular Chromebooks which are around this price point. Edit: for people confused, I meant a low-end Apple laptop not a Windows machine, which are much cheaper. This is priced to barely overlap with the bottom-end. The pricing ensures the two segments are partitioned.
- soyiuz 11y agoThe price point for Chromebooks is ~200-300. My ASUS Flip was $250.
- drzaiusapelord 11y agoYour list adds up to $1070. That's no low end laptop. $399-599 is low to mid end laptop nowadays. Most Chromebooks kick in at under $300 now also.
- err4nt 11y agoI picked up a Windows8 touchscreen laptop for web testing and it cost me the same as an old android phone: $230 That means a machine like my primary work computer is like 8 low-end laptops. This new iPad is the cost of 2–3 low-end laptops.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> but it fires shots across the bow of also increasingly popular Chromebooks which are around this price point. The price point is more like (a little under) the at-release Surface Pro than popular Chromebooks (its a little cheaper than the Chromebook Pixel, but that's not really the big seller -- the popular models are at the low end.) Both by form factor and price, this seems more to be competing more with the big "pro" tablets that the Galaxy Note Pro 12.2 (slightly cheaper) and the Surface Pro (3 was slightly more expensive at release, 4 probably will be too, 3 is slightly less expensive right now) than Chromebooks.
- carlosrg 11y ago"if you see a stylus, they blew it." - Steve Jobs, after the 2010 iPad introduction.
- rev_bird 11y agoI just can't figure out why Jobs, and apparently lots of other people, are against adding an extra, more accurate method of interacting with a touchscreen, without removing any of its current capabilities. I'm not taking handwritten notes with my finger, get real. A stylus totally changes the range of interactions I can have with a device.
- tsunamifury 11y agoJobs didn't like Modes -- something you see quite a bit in todays presentation. He felt that Modes obscure the immediate discoverability of functions and they keep you from pushing your design to ensure you can use something without left clicking or pulling out a pen. It should just work.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- 72deluxe 11y agoThe "no modes" approach is a good one. I do find with modern systems that the obscure hieroglyphics and no hints for buttons is just as bad though - who would have thought that a box with an arrow going into it was "share"? Or that I had to swipe left or right to show a delete option in a list? Or on Windows, that Win-U or hovering near the right showed charms? IMHO these non-discoverable items are a barrier to use. Screens are big enough that buttons can be drawn on them, and even with text.
- mozumder 11y agoBecause it adds complexity to the user experience. Most people don't need handwritten notes. How would a stylus help with their text messaging or photo taking? They're fine just pressing on the on-screen keyboard. Hell, they don't even teach cursive writing in school anymore. So, a stylus is STILL not a valid useful device for the average person. You'll notice that they introduced this stylus for the iPad Pro, and not for the regular iPad. This stylus is for a specific pro user that actually needs a pen input.
- braythwayt 11y ago> It’s right out of the Steve Jobs handbook: something you don’t offer is a > terrible idea, until you offer it yourself, at which point you explain why your > solution is the first to get it right. --Jon Gruber, Daring Fireball
- ssharp 11y agoWould that might it wrong, though? There have been 3rd party pens and they were terrible and unnecessary. The multiple inputs, sensors, etc. will probably make this Apple stylus pretty useful. In this case, maybe Apple is the first to get it right.
- S_A_P 11y agoApple got it right because they were the first to charge 99 bucks for it.
- braythwayt 11y agoCorrect. Until now, a pencil was $50. http://shop.fiftythree.com/?cc=CA http://shop.fiftythree.com/?cc=CA
- wlesieutre 11y agoAlso $50 for a Surface 3 pen http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-Pen/productID.314885900 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-...
- austenallred 11y agoIn context Jobs was talking about a stylus as the only/primary input for the device, meaning you would be required to have a stylus to ever use the device. Of course that would be terrible. This stylus is an optional accessory with a very specific use case. A fundamentally different thing.
- hexasquid 11y agoIn context Jobs was talking about getting them, putting them away and losing them.
- austenallred 11y ago"How are we going to communicate with this? We don't want to carry around a mouse, so what are we going to do? Oh, a stylus, right? We're going to use a stylus? No. Who wants a stylus? You have to get them, put them away, you lose them, yuck. So let's not use a stylus. We're going to use the best pointing device in the world; a pointing device that we're all born with - we're born with ten of them. We're going to use our fingers. We're going to touch it with our fingers. And we have invented a new technology called multi-touch..."
- zenir 11y agoI didn't know apple invented multi-touch.
- elektromekatron 11y agoThey didn't, but then again they also now have a stylus, so at least they are consistent.
- austenallred 11y agoBy the way, I'm not saying they did, I'm just including the entire quote from Jobs. The important part of the quote in this context is that Jobs was obviously referring to the stylus being the primary input device for the iPhone being unacceptable.
- erikpukinskis 11y agoWasn't he talking about the iPhone, not the iPad? At that time the dominant mobile platform was PDAs with styluses. I'm pretty sure that's the context in which he made those remarks.
- tonycoco 11y agoExactly. His point, I think, was trying to get rid of the need for people pulling out a stylus in a car sitting in traffic and scribbling notes and smiley faces. Not catering to artists and people sitting in meetings taking notes. The iPhone doesn't need a stylus. A tablet (especially at that size) acts more like a blank canvas and it makes perfect sense to get a drawing tool like a pencil on that big surface to encourage even more apps and creative outlets.
- elektromekatron 11y agoI want to be able to pick up anything and use it as a calligraphic stylus
- melling 11y agoSo, if you don't want one, don't buy it. It's optional and cost $100. Would Steve have changed his mind on them 8 years later? Of course, he would... I bet all iPads in the future will have an optional stylus. Hopefully, the phones too. http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-don-t-really-care-about-being-right-i-just-care-about-success-i-don-t-mind-being-wrong-steve-jobs-105-81-75.jpg http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-don-t-really-...
- pbreit 11y agoWhat's your point?
- caskance 11y agoWho cares what Steve Jobs thinks? He's dead.
- hk__2 11y agoSteve Jobs was talking about a Phone. Not a 12 inches tablet.
- Karunamon 11y agoThis quote is making the rounds on Twitter right now. The non-snarky response to which is "that's an ancient quote", the more snarky one is "It's been 7 years. The market changes. Deal with it."
- Gigablah 11y agoGuess that applies to Apple fans quoting "Less space than a Nomad. Lame" as well?
- 72deluxe 11y agoThey did repeatedly mention that the main way of interacting with it was touch, and that the stylus and touch can be used together. So it's an extra feature. This differs from earlier touchscreens that required a stylus and the strength of 10 mighty men to get that cheap touchscreen to register.