4 ms·

On a vacation to France last year, my SO and remarked several times on how different the behaviours of children and adults in the playgrounds in cities and town

On a vacation to France last year, my SO and remarked several times on how different the behaviours of children and adults in the playgrounds in cities and towns of France differed from their counterparts in Canada and the US. The interaction in France reminded me much more of my parents and I than the modern parents of North America. It's hard to put a finger on exactly what it was but there was a lot more letting the kids climb on stuff, do "dangerous" things, work out their own problems, fight their own battles and basically run around having fun.

smtddr 11y ago
Today's America has a stronger phobia of getting hurt.... or maybe of getting sued. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/may/21/children-weaker-computers-replace-activity http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/may/21/children-weak... http://www.bustle.com/articles/41370-11-stupidly-dangerous-toys-of-the-90s-our-parents-probably-shouldnt-have-let-us-play-with http://www.bustle.com/articles/41370-11-stupidly-dangerous-t... --- I remember some of these toys and they were great fun.
- hvidgaard 11y ago
  Wow, the only dubious of those choices would be the rocket. The rest of them are great for learning your body, and act responsible. I really blows me mind that a trampoline is seen as a dangerous thing - I'd say a pool is worse. The trampoline is a endless source of fun for children, and I've yet to even hear of someone getting anything worse than a sprained angle from one.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > anything worse than a sprained ankle There were eleven trampoline deaths in the US between 1990 and 1995. http://www.avon.nhs.uk/phnet/Avonsafe/Trampolines/Trampoline%20Injuries.pdf http://www.avon.nhs.uk/phnet/Avonsafe/Trampolines/Trampoline... There were about 100,000 ER presentations in the US in 2007. These are all preventable accidents. And these accidents happened after considerable work had gone into making trampolines safer. Safety nets help (many injuries happen when people fall off), but here's a passage describing another method of injury: > 3.5 If a trampolinist lands on the mat when out of phase with the other participants, the mat may be rising to meet them and the effect is of meeting a hard surface. All the potential and kinetic energy in the system is transferred to the person, who may be unprepared. Depending on the child’s mass, the energy transfer may be equivalent to falling from 2.2m or 3.4 m equivalent to a fall from a first floor window7. This fact may provide a useful tool to communicate the effect of trampolining to parents and supervisors. None of this means that trampolines should be banned. A manufacturing standard is probably needed for domestic equipment. And people should be encouraged to have adult spotters and safety nets.
    - marcosdumay 11y ago
      > There were eleven trampoline deaths in the US between 1990 and 1995. Looks like an incredibly safe activity. How many deaths were there for people simply falling while they walk?
      - apetresc 11y ago
        How much time do people spend walking versus trampolining?
    - throwaway1967 11y ago
      What possible "manufacturing standard" could fix that method of injury you quoted? "According to the American Association of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS), 246,875 medically treated trampoline injuries occur annually in the U.S." If kids want to jump, get them a safe inflatable castle and let them jump inside. Those don't suffer from the trampoline problem you delineated, and frankly are more fun. The real problem is finding alternatives for things like stairs and bathtubs.
    - hvidgaard 11y ago
      I cannot take that too serious. It purposely try to paint it as a very dangerous activity. Landing out of phase is not the same as landing on a hard surface, at worst you get propelled up way higher than you're comfortable with, and it's certainly possible for 4 children to launch one of them high enough to clear the safety net. And you know what, that is okay. Because it's one of the less dangerous things children can do that improve their physical understanding and ability. Certainly beats them trying to get on the roof of the playground. But I agree that safety nets, or trampolines dug into the ground is a very good idea. Actually, both would be the best.
lbotos 11y ago
I had the same reaction as an American living in Berlin. There was a playground right next to my apartment where a whale shaped slide also had a water pump that went right into a sandbox essentially making mud. There were always kids playing and always kids making mud but never once did someone get buried in mud, mud thrown at them... it was _civilized_ play day in and day out. Just kids having fun in a way that I haven't seen with my own eyes for a while. (plural of anecdote is not data, etc etc.)
mikerichards 11y ago
Don't fall into the stereotype trap of thinking all parents are helicopters. My kid is 2 and we let him go down water slides and climb up those "safe", modern jungle gym thingies. It is kind of disturbing though that I don't see kids running around exploring the woods and creeks and stuff like we did in the 70s and early 80s.
- Loughla 11y ago
  It depends on where you live. Kids near me spend all day in the woods digging holes and looking at bugs and stuff just like we used to. But we live where there are no playgrounds in very rural areas. I'm with you. The overly structured method of childhood now is disturbing. Whereas we used to play sandlot baseball, kids are on competitive traveling teams. Where we used to 'explore' the woods and camp on our own, kids are in scouts and have structured hikes every weekend with overnight camps in cabins. etc. etc Maybe it's just rose colored glasses, but I do genuinely believe that the unstructured play of my youth seemed a hell of a lot more fun than what my nieces and nephews are going through with schedules and practices and structure.
TheGunner 11y ago
I've made a conscious effort to let my 18 month old do this, even if it does mean the odd grazed knee or bump on the forehead I'd rather her learn from doing and making mistakes than wrap her in cotton wool, she gets more than enough wrapping with cotton wool from my wife :)

smtddr 11y ago

Today's America has a stronger phobia of getting hurt.... or maybe of getting sued. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/may/21/children-weaker-computers-replace-activity http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/may/21/children-weak... http://www.bustle.com/articles/41370-11-stupidly-dangerous-toys-of-the-90s-our-parents-probably-shouldnt-have-let-us-play-with http://www.bustle.com/articles/41370-11-stupidly-dangerous-t... --- I remember some of these toys and they were great fun.

hvidgaard 11y ago
Wow, the only dubious of those choices would be the rocket. The rest of them are great for learning your body, and act responsible. I really blows me mind that a trampoline is seen as a dangerous thing - I'd say a pool is worse. The trampoline is a endless source of fun for children, and I've yet to even hear of someone getting anything worse than a sprained angle from one.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > anything worse than a sprained ankle There were eleven trampoline deaths in the US between 1990 and 1995. http://www.avon.nhs.uk/phnet/Avonsafe/Trampolines/Trampoline%20Injuries.pdf http://www.avon.nhs.uk/phnet/Avonsafe/Trampolines/Trampoline... There were about 100,000 ER presentations in the US in 2007. These are all preventable accidents. And these accidents happened after considerable work had gone into making trampolines safer. Safety nets help (many injuries happen when people fall off), but here's a passage describing another method of injury: > 3.5 If a trampolinist lands on the mat when out of phase with the other participants, the mat may be rising to meet them and the effect is of meeting a hard surface. All the potential and kinetic energy in the system is transferred to the person, who may be unprepared. Depending on the child’s mass, the energy transfer may be equivalent to falling from 2.2m or 3.4 m equivalent to a fall from a first floor window7. This fact may provide a useful tool to communicate the effect of trampolining to parents and supervisors. None of this means that trampolines should be banned. A manufacturing standard is probably needed for domestic equipment. And people should be encouraged to have adult spotters and safety nets.
  - marcosdumay 11y ago
    > There were eleven trampoline deaths in the US between 1990 and 1995. Looks like an incredibly safe activity. How many deaths were there for people simply falling while they walk?
    - apetresc 11y ago
      How much time do people spend walking versus trampolining?
  - throwaway1967 11y ago
    What possible "manufacturing standard" could fix that method of injury you quoted? "According to the American Association of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS), 246,875 medically treated trampoline injuries occur annually in the U.S." If kids want to jump, get them a safe inflatable castle and let them jump inside. Those don't suffer from the trampoline problem you delineated, and frankly are more fun. The real problem is finding alternatives for things like stairs and bathtubs.
  - hvidgaard 11y ago
    I cannot take that too serious. It purposely try to paint it as a very dangerous activity. Landing out of phase is not the same as landing on a hard surface, at worst you get propelled up way higher than you're comfortable with, and it's certainly possible for 4 children to launch one of them high enough to clear the safety net. And you know what, that is okay. Because it's one of the less dangerous things children can do that improve their physical understanding and ability. Certainly beats them trying to get on the roof of the playground. But I agree that safety nets, or trampolines dug into the ground is a very good idea. Actually, both would be the best.

lbotos 11y ago

I had the same reaction as an American living in Berlin. There was a playground right next to my apartment where a whale shaped slide also had a water pump that went right into a sandbox essentially making mud. There were always kids playing and always kids making mud but never once did someone get buried in mud, mud thrown at them... it was _civilized_ play day in and day out. Just kids having fun in a way that I haven't seen with my own eyes for a while. (plural of anecdote is not data, etc etc.)

mikerichards 11y ago

Don't fall into the stereotype trap of thinking all parents are helicopters. My kid is 2 and we let him go down water slides and climb up those "safe", modern jungle gym thingies. It is kind of disturbing though that I don't see kids running around exploring the woods and creeks and stuff like we did in the 70s and early 80s.

Loughla 11y ago
It depends on where you live. Kids near me spend all day in the woods digging holes and looking at bugs and stuff just like we used to. But we live where there are no playgrounds in very rural areas. I'm with you. The overly structured method of childhood now is disturbing. Whereas we used to play sandlot baseball, kids are on competitive traveling teams. Where we used to 'explore' the woods and camp on our own, kids are in scouts and have structured hikes every weekend with overnight camps in cabins. etc. etc Maybe it's just rose colored glasses, but I do genuinely believe that the unstructured play of my youth seemed a hell of a lot more fun than what my nieces and nephews are going through with schedules and practices and structure.

TheGunner 11y ago

I've made a conscious effort to let my 18 month old do this, even if it does mean the odd grazed knee or bump on the forehead I'd rather her learn from doing and making mistakes than wrap her in cotton wool, she gets more than enough wrapping with cotton wool from my wife :)