4 ms·

the guy sawed through critical beams of a building that people were living in in order to make it unsafe and induce collapse. Then, when his family put up thei

the guy sawed through critical beams of a building that people were living in in order to make it unsafe and induce collapse. Then, when his family put up their life savings in order to bail him out before trial, he ran away to Italy and screwed his parents out of retirement. At a minimum, he's a criminal sociopath who would correctly flunk the background check at a minimum wage fast food restaurant. Maybe ethics and morality and character don't matter to you when you install software, but they sure do matter to me when I install init systems.

bro-stick 11y ago
Exactly. Thank you. Trust is the most important part of the social contract. Burn that, and someone like that should be DK'ed until they can prove otherwise. Others quick to defend by attacking the messenger damaging their precious worldview is cognitive dissonance at work, but they should get their facts straight and know whom they're protecting before jumping over the holes in the floor. I agree that people should get a second chance, but only when they earn back trust, otherwise it says whatever they can get away with is okay, as long as we benefit from their other work. It's not okay. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me"
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
I care about ethics in software, too, but only insofar as they extend to technical and political issues played with the software specifically. I wouldn't care if Lennart Poettering was a rapist, because that is irrelevant to the workings of systemd. I do care about his architectural vision and how he promotes it.
- bro-stick 11y ago
  Code by itself isn't often very useful, the community around it is often far more valuable. It's hard to know if someone who's committed antisocial acts didn't leave landmines in code or is hard to work with when it comes to support of issues or community discussions. Hans Reiser (reiserfs) is a murderer, and I think it's hard to justify working with someone like that.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    It's hard to know if someone who's committed antisocial acts didn't leave landmines in code or is hard to work with when it comes to support of issues or community discussions. No, I don't see how that follows at all. It's hard to know these things in general. Your adding of the qualifier "committed antisocial acts" is poisoning the well. Paul Reiser (reiserfs) is a murderer Hans Reiser. And his being a murderer has no relation to the technical quality of the file system. That said, ReiserFS is largely dead, and Hans Reiser is in prison anyway, so you can't work with him even if you wanted to.
    - bro-stick 11y ago
      Minor issue, corrected. Yes, I'm well aware. The leader of the FLDS still runs his town from prison, so you're wrong. For all we know, Hans is still coding on pencil and paper or on a computer. The bigger issue: Should violent felons whom happen to produce something others value be embraced with blind, warm, happy-clappy love and trust? I think not.
      - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
        embraced with blind, warm, happy-clappy love and trust You sure do have very low standards if you think anything going on here is equivalent to "happy-clappy love and trust".
      - mappu 11y ago
        >Should violent felons whom happen to produce something others value be embraced with blind, warm, happy-clappy love and trust? The person is not the code. Working code can be used and valued regardless of who contributed to it.
- atmosx 11y ago
  So, as long as he gives you aomething you use for free, you will make no judgement. Cool. What if the victim is your relative? Will you care? What if it is you? Should we care? I mean, we might use his software, why ahould we care about you? Do you see how this affects every member of a society. Having a member of our society traumatized for life is not acceptable.
  - bro-stick 11y ago
    What happens elsewhere affects everyone, even if they don't see it right here and now. First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. ~ Martin Niemöller
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      You've jumped the shark. I'm sorry. Invoking a quote regarding the goddamned Nazis over a BSD company hiring a hacker who served time for a criminal offense, reaches such levels of absurdity that it rivals the likes of talk radio pundits such as Rush Limbaugh. I don't know how anyone can take you seriously or even be so persistent about hammering one's past so violently in their face, but I guess that's the power of moral agendas.
    - dang 11y ago
      Please stop conducting this flamewar. HN is no place for this.
feld 11y ago
don't let the door hit you on the way out

bro-stick 11y ago

Exactly. Thank you. Trust is the most important part of the social contract. Burn that, and someone like that should be DK'ed until they can prove otherwise. Others quick to defend by attacking the messenger damaging their precious worldview is cognitive dissonance at work, but they should get their facts straight and know whom they're protecting before jumping over the holes in the floor. I agree that people should get a second chance, but only when they earn back trust, otherwise it says whatever they can get away with is okay, as long as we benefit from their other work. It's not okay. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me"

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

I care about ethics in software, too, but only insofar as they extend to technical and political issues played with the software specifically. I wouldn't care if Lennart Poettering was a rapist, because that is irrelevant to the workings of systemd. I do care about his architectural vision and how he promotes it.

bro-stick 11y ago
Code by itself isn't often very useful, the community around it is often far more valuable. It's hard to know if someone who's committed antisocial acts didn't leave landmines in code or is hard to work with when it comes to support of issues or community discussions. Hans Reiser (reiserfs) is a murderer, and I think it's hard to justify working with someone like that.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  It's hard to know if someone who's committed antisocial acts didn't leave landmines in code or is hard to work with when it comes to support of issues or community discussions. No, I don't see how that follows at all. It's hard to know these things in general. Your adding of the qualifier "committed antisocial acts" is poisoning the well. Paul Reiser (reiserfs) is a murderer Hans Reiser. And his being a murderer has no relation to the technical quality of the file system. That said, ReiserFS is largely dead, and Hans Reiser is in prison anyway, so you can't work with him even if you wanted to.
  - bro-stick 11y ago
    Minor issue, corrected. Yes, I'm well aware. The leader of the FLDS still runs his town from prison, so you're wrong. For all we know, Hans is still coding on pencil and paper or on a computer. The bigger issue: Should violent felons whom happen to produce something others value be embraced with blind, warm, happy-clappy love and trust? I think not.
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      embraced with blind, warm, happy-clappy love and trust You sure do have very low standards if you think anything going on here is equivalent to "happy-clappy love and trust".
    - mappu 11y ago
      >Should violent felons whom happen to produce something others value be embraced with blind, warm, happy-clappy love and trust? The person is not the code. Working code can be used and valued regardless of who contributed to it.
atmosx 11y ago
So, as long as he gives you aomething you use for free, you will make no judgement. Cool. What if the victim is your relative? Will you care? What if it is you? Should we care? I mean, we might use his software, why ahould we care about you? Do you see how this affects every member of a society. Having a member of our society traumatized for life is not acceptable.
- bro-stick 11y ago
  What happens elsewhere affects everyone, even if they don't see it right here and now. First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. ~ Martin Niemöller
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    You've jumped the shark. I'm sorry. Invoking a quote regarding the goddamned Nazis over a BSD company hiring a hacker who served time for a criminal offense, reaches such levels of absurdity that it rivals the likes of talk radio pundits such as Rush Limbaugh. I don't know how anyone can take you seriously or even be so persistent about hammering one's past so violently in their face, but I guess that's the power of moral agendas.
  - dang 11y ago
    Please stop conducting this flamewar. HN is no place for this.

feld 11y ago

don't let the door hit you on the way out