13 ms·

Silicon Valley, Seeking Diversity, Focuses on Blacks

27 points by aaronbrethorst 11y ago

draw_down 11y ago
> "If you look at the scale and speed with which the Valley moves, if they wanted to solve this problem, they could," Dr. Womack said. That's basically an argument for "the Valley" not having any problems at all. It's said in the context of a wider talent shortage, so does it mean that there is a huge glut of engineers (black or otherwise) currently being ignored/underemployed? Or it could mean that throwing money at the problem would fix it in short order, which I generally doubt, though I have no issue with the notion that companies complaining about a talent shortage should consider paying to get what they want. Or it could mean that companies should throw money at the problem in the form of training up engineers, but that is not a speedy-scaley proposition, unfortunately. Hard problems still exist in the time of Uber.
- seiji 11y ago
  Yeah, it's a huge culture issue, but not a technical problem companies can engineer solutions towards. Tech companies don't exist as government regulators of natural philosophy. On the other hand, tech companies do suffer from monoculture and it hurts them when they only play to their own ivory towers instead of understanding the world as it exists. When it's expedient to engage different groups it does happen though. Apple didn't buy Beats because their headphones are the best designed things in the world. Apple saw a company that managed to manipulate an entire (racially motivated) youth subculture and wanted to steal some of that power for themselves. Apple also wanted that elderly executive guy who dresses as if he's a teenager from the south and rambles incessantly, unprepared and unrehearsed, at keynotes. The future of America is clearly not-white (over 50% of children born in the US are now "non-majority") so the problem will self correct within the next 15 years. Be prepared for 15 years of news reports about how everything isn't diverse enough until, one day, things just end up being diverse by the force of history.
  - adventured 11y ago
    Shifting demographics won't inherently change diversity issues in places like Silicon Valley. The problem is far wider than numerical distribution; it's education, home stability, environment, poverty, etc etc, and 15 years isn't going to correct all of that just because national demographics are gradually shifting. The proof for that is all around: black people are 15% of the population, but a fraction of that in major tech companies. The same holds true for latinos. There's a reverse example that makes the point as well: asians as a percentage of the national population, versus representation in tech companies in Silicon Valley. That more than makes it clear it's about skills and education, not demographic percentages. Baltimore is ~65% black. Do you think 65% of the programmers in Baltimore are black? If your theory were correct, we'd have seen a lot more black people working for Twitter, Apple, Google, etc. a long time ago. It doesn't matter if the future is 80% non-white, if people that are non-white don't develop the education and skills required for the jobs in Silicon Valley. That's the issue, and it won't change just because the percentages on demographics do - ie it is not self-correcting. If it were self-correcting, you'd see proof of that in US cities that have had very large black populations for a long time.
    - hockeybias 11y ago
      Agreed.
    - seiji 11y ago
      All good points, but my delusions rely on one piece of magic: determined people from disadvantaged backgrounds can become successful anyway. This won't all be fixed in 15 years, but it will start to be fixed just by numbers. Yes, the current numbers are awful, but they must get better in the future. If they don't get better, the US will end up as 90% poor and 10% CEOs. Many racial-cultural ghettos throughout the country do exist and drive down the future potential of millions of children, but everybody won't stay there forever. Maybe it only takes a few breakthrough tech successes to set the stage—people to look up to, not "smart is bad" culture. (Also, with current numbers, there are isolated pockets. Sure baltimore is 65% black, but that doesn't put pressure on employee availability (employers can relocate people from elsewhere). But when the entire country is 80% mixed hispanic-white-black-chinese in 100 years, employees must come from society as a whole somewhere.) It is a generational problem and it will take another one to three generations to fully be considered a non-issue anymore. (Assuming, at some point, the US decides to invest in education and children and growth again instead of choking off all avenues of social mobility as have been routine for the past dozen years.)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
downandout 11y ago
The article highlights something called the Hidden Genius Program. From their website: "The Hidden Genius Project trains and mentors black male youth in technology creation, entrepreneurship, and leadership skills to transform their lives and communities." I find these kinds of programs troubling. There are a ton of impoverished "hidden geniuses" in this country, and not all of them are young, black, or male. If these programs are intended to encourage diversity as they claim, they have a funny way of showing it. Rather, this program seems to promote exclusion. Edit: Those of you that are downvoting this, a) I have karma to burn - do your worst, and b) a downvote for this comment is an upvote for racism and sexism.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Any approach that targets particular underserved minorities can always be labeled 'exclusion'. But that's a much smaller evil than the one in front of us. Do we really need to fix that problem too?
  - downandout 11y ago
    We need to fix the problems of racism and sexism, which means we shouldn't be excluding anyone from any program or job based solely upon their race or sex. Programs like this fly in the face of that goal and ensure that these problems will continue in perpetuity.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Which argument can be seen as a roadblock thrown up to avoid having to do anything. "I can't fix this problem because no solution is perfect!" That said, I agree the recruitment could be of any underserved youth with potential, and not compromise the usefulness.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - generic_user 11y ago
      That is precisely correct. The Identity politics that the Grievance Industry try's to interject into every socioeconomic problem is part of problems not the cure for under preforming racial groups.
andyl 11y ago
Majority of the programmers I work with in the valley are Indians and Asians. It's been that way for years. I'd venture a bet that my silicon valley co-workers are much more diverse than the NY Times writers who love to preach about diversity. Quick check: - NYT Executive Leadership: 90% white - NYT Board of Directors: 92% white - NYT Opinion Writers: 91% white Media has a diversity problem!!
- seiji 11y ago
  my silicon valley co-workers are much more diverse Twitter had a neat turn of phrase in their recent diversity document: "these new goals focus on increasing the overall representation of women and underrepresented minorities" underrepresented. You don't count as a minority if there's already too many of you being successful.
  - magicalist 11y ago
    > Twitter had a neat turn of phrase in their recent diversity document: "these new goals focus on increasing the overall representation of women and underrepresented minorities" > underrepresented. You don't count as a minority if there's already too many of you being successful. why would you focus on minorities that are overrepresented?
- cgy1 11y ago
  Asian-Americans simply don't count when it comes to racial diversity. If tech companies are not diverse because the vast majority of workers are white and Asian, isn't the NBA similarly non-diverse because the vast majority of players are black and white? Would there be a similar uproar about the lack of racial diversity in tech if the representation of Asian-Americans and blacks working in tech were reversed? I very much doubt it.
  - nolite 11y ago
    I don't think anyone would qualify the NBA as "diverse". Its had a high majority of black players for a while now. You don't see a ton of asians or hispanics however.
trhway 11y ago
there are disproportionally more blacks in prisons and disproportionally less in Silicon Valley. Doesn't it hint that the root issues lie earlier, that bifurcation point happens well before that in time and causal chain, like in school and the environment where the childhood is spent.
- dajohnson89 11y ago
  Yes, so let's ignore the issues facing adult blacks. It's not like the success of black children depends on that of their parents or anything.
  - trhway 11y ago
    I don't understand. Are there black programmers who can't get a job?
    - dajohnson89 11y ago
      What is unclear about the article? There are so few black programmers, that it's a moot point to determine whether or not black programmers can get a job.
      - Luke101 11y ago
        I'm a black programmer and I have seen other highly educated minorities where I'm from.
    - Luke101 11y ago
      I'm black with about 3 years exp as a programmer. The key to getting a job is to practice, practice and practice. You beat on your skills non stop and always be creating a product because when you create products that hones your skills in many areas of programming. Also, spend your time answering questions on stackoverflow. SO has been an invaluable tool to improving my skills.
- sprash 11y ago
  This Norwegian documentary tells you why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnQPXuU81Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnQPXuU81Q
davidf18 11y ago
I know of an Asian man who graduated from an Ivy League law school. Neither of his parents had gone to college (they were immigrants from Asia) and yet he was penalized because his ethnic group is successful. He was upset about that. You will find that there are many blacks in undergrad, MBA, law, medical schools but not so many in engineering/science schools. I believe it is simply that blacks are not interested in engineering/computer science and choose these other fields instead.
MattGrommes 11y ago
I've thought for a long time that by excluding black people from so many tech companies they were, among obvious other problems, missing a lot of business opportunities. Most white tech workers/founders are simply not going to know about a lot of products or services that are common in black society, such as specialized hair care that's already producing a number of startups.
honest_joe 11y ago
I would never want to work for a company that is all about diversity. it's ridiculous

> "If you look at the scale and speed with which the Valley moves, if they wanted to solve this problem, they could," Dr. Womack said. That's basically an argument for "the Valley" not having any problems at all. It's said in the context of a wider talent shortage, so does it mean that there is a huge glut of engineers (black or otherwise) currently being ignored/underemployed? Or it could mean that throwing money at the problem would fix it in short order, which I generally doubt, though I have no issue with the notion that companies complaining about a talent shortage should consider paying to get what they want. Or it could mean that companies should throw money at the problem in the form of training up engineers, but that is not a speedy-scaley proposition, unfortunately. Hard problems still exist in the time of Uber.

seiji 11y ago
Yeah, it's a huge culture issue, but not a technical problem companies can engineer solutions towards. Tech companies don't exist as government regulators of natural philosophy. On the other hand, tech companies do suffer from monoculture and it hurts them when they only play to their own ivory towers instead of understanding the world as it exists. When it's expedient to engage different groups it does happen though. Apple didn't buy Beats because their headphones are the best designed things in the world. Apple saw a company that managed to manipulate an entire (racially motivated) youth subculture and wanted to steal some of that power for themselves. Apple also wanted that elderly executive guy who dresses as if he's a teenager from the south and rambles incessantly, unprepared and unrehearsed, at keynotes. The future of America is clearly not-white (over 50% of children born in the US are now "non-majority") so the problem will self correct within the next 15 years. Be prepared for 15 years of news reports about how everything isn't diverse enough until, one day, things just end up being diverse by the force of history.
- adventured 11y ago
  Shifting demographics won't inherently change diversity issues in places like Silicon Valley. The problem is far wider than numerical distribution; it's education, home stability, environment, poverty, etc etc, and 15 years isn't going to correct all of that just because national demographics are gradually shifting. The proof for that is all around: black people are 15% of the population, but a fraction of that in major tech companies. The same holds true for latinos. There's a reverse example that makes the point as well: asians as a percentage of the national population, versus representation in tech companies in Silicon Valley. That more than makes it clear it's about skills and education, not demographic percentages. Baltimore is ~65% black. Do you think 65% of the programmers in Baltimore are black? If your theory were correct, we'd have seen a lot more black people working for Twitter, Apple, Google, etc. a long time ago. It doesn't matter if the future is 80% non-white, if people that are non-white don't develop the education and skills required for the jobs in Silicon Valley. That's the issue, and it won't change just because the percentages on demographics do - ie it is not self-correcting. If it were self-correcting, you'd see proof of that in US cities that have had very large black populations for a long time.
  - hockeybias 11y ago
    Agreed.
  - seiji 11y ago
    All good points, but my delusions rely on one piece of magic: determined people from disadvantaged backgrounds can become successful anyway. This won't all be fixed in 15 years, but it will start to be fixed just by numbers. Yes, the current numbers are awful, but they must get better in the future. If they don't get better, the US will end up as 90% poor and 10% CEOs. Many racial-cultural ghettos throughout the country do exist and drive down the future potential of millions of children, but everybody won't stay there forever. Maybe it only takes a few breakthrough tech successes to set the stage—people to look up to, not "smart is bad" culture. (Also, with current numbers, there are isolated pockets. Sure baltimore is 65% black, but that doesn't put pressure on employee availability (employers can relocate people from elsewhere). But when the entire country is 80% mixed hispanic-white-black-chinese in 100 years, employees must come from society as a whole somewhere.) It is a generational problem and it will take another one to three generations to fully be considered a non-issue anymore. (Assuming, at some point, the US decides to invest in education and children and growth again instead of choking off all avenues of social mobility as have been routine for the past dozen years.)

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

downandout 11y ago

The article highlights something called the Hidden Genius Program. From their website: "The Hidden Genius Project trains and mentors black male youth in technology creation, entrepreneurship, and leadership skills to transform their lives and communities." I find these kinds of programs troubling. There are a ton of impoverished "hidden geniuses" in this country, and not all of them are young, black, or male. If these programs are intended to encourage diversity as they claim, they have a funny way of showing it. Rather, this program seems to promote exclusion. Edit: Those of you that are downvoting this, a) I have karma to burn - do your worst, and b) a downvote for this comment is an upvote for racism and sexism.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Any approach that targets particular underserved minorities can always be labeled 'exclusion'. But that's a much smaller evil than the one in front of us. Do we really need to fix that problem too?
- downandout 11y ago
  We need to fix the problems of racism and sexism, which means we shouldn't be excluding anyone from any program or job based solely upon their race or sex. Programs like this fly in the face of that goal and ensure that these problems will continue in perpetuity.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Which argument can be seen as a roadblock thrown up to avoid having to do anything. "I can't fix this problem because no solution is perfect!" That said, I agree the recruitment could be of any underserved youth with potential, and not compromise the usefulness.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - generic_user 11y ago
    That is precisely correct. The Identity politics that the Grievance Industry try's to interject into every socioeconomic problem is part of problems not the cure for under preforming racial groups.

andyl 11y ago

Majority of the programmers I work with in the valley are Indians and Asians. It's been that way for years. I'd venture a bet that my silicon valley co-workers are much more diverse than the NY Times writers who love to preach about diversity. Quick check: - NYT Executive Leadership: 90% white - NYT Board of Directors: 92% white - NYT Opinion Writers: 91% white Media has a diversity problem!!

seiji 11y ago
my silicon valley co-workers are much more diverse Twitter had a neat turn of phrase in their recent diversity document: "these new goals focus on increasing the overall representation of women and underrepresented minorities" underrepresented. You don't count as a minority if there's already too many of you being successful.
- magicalist 11y ago
  > Twitter had a neat turn of phrase in their recent diversity document: "these new goals focus on increasing the overall representation of women and underrepresented minorities" > underrepresented. You don't count as a minority if there's already too many of you being successful. why would you focus on minorities that are overrepresented?
cgy1 11y ago
Asian-Americans simply don't count when it comes to racial diversity. If tech companies are not diverse because the vast majority of workers are white and Asian, isn't the NBA similarly non-diverse because the vast majority of players are black and white? Would there be a similar uproar about the lack of racial diversity in tech if the representation of Asian-Americans and blacks working in tech were reversed? I very much doubt it.
- nolite 11y ago
  I don't think anyone would qualify the NBA as "diverse". Its had a high majority of black players for a while now. You don't see a ton of asians or hispanics however.

trhway 11y ago

there are disproportionally more blacks in prisons and disproportionally less in Silicon Valley. Doesn't it hint that the root issues lie earlier, that bifurcation point happens well before that in time and causal chain, like in school and the environment where the childhood is spent.

dajohnson89 11y ago
Yes, so let's ignore the issues facing adult blacks. It's not like the success of black children depends on that of their parents or anything.
- trhway 11y ago
  I don't understand. Are there black programmers who can't get a job?
  - dajohnson89 11y ago
    What is unclear about the article? There are so few black programmers, that it's a moot point to determine whether or not black programmers can get a job.
    - Luke101 11y ago
      I'm a black programmer and I have seen other highly educated minorities where I'm from.
  - Luke101 11y ago
    I'm black with about 3 years exp as a programmer. The key to getting a job is to practice, practice and practice. You beat on your skills non stop and always be creating a product because when you create products that hones your skills in many areas of programming. Also, spend your time answering questions on stackoverflow. SO has been an invaluable tool to improving my skills.
sprash 11y ago
This Norwegian documentary tells you why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnQPXuU81Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnQPXuU81Q

davidf18 11y ago

I know of an Asian man who graduated from an Ivy League law school. Neither of his parents had gone to college (they were immigrants from Asia) and yet he was penalized because his ethnic group is successful. He was upset about that. You will find that there are many blacks in undergrad, MBA, law, medical schools but not so many in engineering/science schools. I believe it is simply that blacks are not interested in engineering/computer science and choose these other fields instead.

MattGrommes 11y ago

I've thought for a long time that by excluding black people from so many tech companies they were, among obvious other problems, missing a lot of business opportunities. Most white tech workers/founders are simply not going to know about a lot of products or services that are common in black society, such as specialized hair care that's already producing a number of startups.

honest_joe 11y ago

I would never want to work for a company that is all about diversity. it's ridiculous