5 ms·

I think JetBrains miscalculated just how much people like the current licensing model. I liked their first model - I paid for it and just used it. The current

by chiph 11y ago

I think JetBrains miscalculated just how much people like the current licensing model. I liked their first model - I paid for it and just used it. The current model, with the yearly upgrade premium, I tolerated. I felt it was a scam (are they going to publish an update in the next year so I get my money's worth? Probably not) but I could deal with it. This new model doesn't work for me at all. As someone who bought his own license, used it at work, and got 3 employers to switch to it -- this doesn't feel right. I am reminded of Altova. They turned their $120 XML editor into a $999 enterprise behemoth. I haven't recommended them in over 10 years.

anjanb 11y ago
I agree with all your points. I have used jetbrains products for 15 years so I feel sad that this is how they are going to lose me and other customers. I was hoping they would come with an IDE for golang and I would buy that as well. Now, this is a big disappointment.
- aantix 11y ago
  So your license price jumps from $89 to $120/yr and now you're no longer a customer? Do you not think their tools probably make up for that $120/yr in terms of your productivity? If you struggle with Netbeans or Eclipse for an hour or two with something IntelliJ does easily, you've already paid for your license. I don't understand arguing about peanuts; pay it the trivial increase and get on with the show of making real money. No wonder why so many startups fail.
  - pixard 11y ago
    I think (for me anyway) the problem isn't the price at all. It's the fact that if you let your subscription lapse you CANNOT use the product. In my case (small business) we have months of very low activity. Now if I let my subscription lapse then I lose access to the software and it becomes more expensive since I wouldn't have the existing customer discount anymore (presumably). I would easily pay double what I'm paying now _but_ on the existing scheme where I can upgrade when I want to, not when I'm forced to.
    - killface 11y ago
      so don't fucking use it. if it's literally not valuable enough to justify 100/yr, just let it go and use eclipse or notepad or something.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        Pixard said: > I think (for me anyway) the problem isn't the price at all. It's the fact that if you let your subscription lapse you CANNOT use the product. (emphasis mine)
        csomar 11y ago
        So pay yearly and make sure at the annual accounting meeting to renew your Jetbrain subscriptions because they are the ultimate infrastructure for your company?
        simoncion 11y ago
        My comment was tailored to address killface's dramatic lack of understanding [0] of pixard's statement. :) [0] Indeed, he appears to have failed to read and/or comprehend the first two sentences in pixard's comment.
    - aantix 11y ago
      You need to use their tools. Jetbrains needs to pay the bills. Your profit margins prohibit you from purchasing new licenses at $120/yr (it's a business expense, so it's even cheaper). Your business model seems more suspect than anything to do with Jetbrains.
      - simoncion 11y ago
        pixard said: > I would easily pay double what I'm paying now _but_ on the existing scheme where I can upgrade when I want to... If he upgrades every other year, then JetBrains's revenue per year works out to be the exactly the same as in their subscription model. In the subscription model, if he has a down month around about the time when his JB subscription payment is due, he loses access to his tools. This could kill his business, which would -in turn- shut off the money faucet to JB. > (it's a business expense, so it's even cheaper) Does JetBrains have a business license that's cheaper than $120/year? If they don't, then $120/year is still $120/year, whether or not a business is spending the money. > Your business model seems more suspect... Do you run a business? Do you know anyone who does? There are good months and bad months; cash flow is almost never steady. Indeed, it is likely this very fact that is causing the JB people to switch to the subscription (AKA "Let's get a guaranteed revenue stream!") model of billing.
  - YoureWrong 11y ago
    I don't care about the difference between $89 and $120 in the cost of a tool. I do care about the difference between license and have it to use indefinitely and continually having to pay to use the product. Notice how your comparison isn't apples to apples, because the one price is in dollars and the other is in dollar years.
  - anjanb 11y ago
    I want to upgrade when I want to. I don't want to be forced to upgrade just to continue using the product! This is main grouse.
corin_ 11y ago
> * I felt it was a scam (are they going to publish an update in the next year so I get my money's worth? Probably not) but I could deal with it.* Surely under the current model you can just not pay for another year until they release an update you want access to?
- dagw 11y ago
  Your 1 year upgrade starts from when your last license ran, not from when you paid for the upgrade. So if your license ran out in January and you bought a 1 year upgrade next June. That upgrade would only last until next January, not next June.
- piqufoh 11y ago
  .. but then you lose the 'renew' discount and have to cough up full price when the update eventually arrives.
  - kedean 11y ago
    So the complaint is that, because you choose not to regularly renew the software, you don't get the discount that comes with it? That sounds kind of entitled, honestly.
    - chiph 11y ago
      It goes against decades of tradition. In the past, the upgrade was offered at a discount to reward your customers for staying with you. It also reflected the lower acquisition cost for that release -- since you didn't have to spend any marketing dollars to find them. Their policy was saying "We appreciate your loyalty, but only for the next year then you'll have to go back to paying full price." But the year didn't start on the renewal date, it was back-dated to the anniversary of the original purchase date. Which meant if you didn't renew on time, you weren't getting a full year .. maybe only 8 months. It was a money-grab, but one I could tolerate.
      - bluecalm 11y ago

by chiph 11y ago

anjanb 11y ago

I agree with all your points. I have used jetbrains products for 15 years so I feel sad that this is how they are going to lose me and other customers. I was hoping they would come with an IDE for golang and I would buy that as well. Now, this is a big disappointment.

aantix 11y ago
So your license price jumps from $89 to $120/yr and now you're no longer a customer? Do you not think their tools probably make up for that $120/yr in terms of your productivity? If you struggle with Netbeans or Eclipse for an hour or two with something IntelliJ does easily, you've already paid for your license. I don't understand arguing about peanuts; pay it the trivial increase and get on with the show of making real money. No wonder why so many startups fail.
- pixard 11y ago
  I think (for me anyway) the problem isn't the price at all. It's the fact that if you let your subscription lapse you CANNOT use the product. In my case (small business) we have months of very low activity. Now if I let my subscription lapse then I lose access to the software and it becomes more expensive since I wouldn't have the existing customer discount anymore (presumably). I would easily pay double what I'm paying now _but_ on the existing scheme where I can upgrade when I want to, not when I'm forced to.
  - killface 11y ago
    so don't fucking use it. if it's literally not valuable enough to justify 100/yr, just let it go and use eclipse or notepad or something.
    - simoncion 11y ago
      Pixard said: > I think (for me anyway) the problem isn't the price at all. It's the fact that if you let your subscription lapse you CANNOT use the product. (emphasis mine)
      - csomar 11y ago
        So pay yearly and make sure at the annual accounting meeting to renew your Jetbrain subscriptions because they are the ultimate infrastructure for your company?
        simoncion 11y ago
        My comment was tailored to address killface's dramatic lack of understanding [0] of pixard's statement. :) [0] Indeed, he appears to have failed to read and/or comprehend the first two sentences in pixard's comment.
  - aantix 11y ago
    You need to use their tools. Jetbrains needs to pay the bills. Your profit margins prohibit you from purchasing new licenses at $120/yr (it's a business expense, so it's even cheaper). Your business model seems more suspect than anything to do with Jetbrains.
    - simoncion 11y ago
      pixard said: > I would easily pay double what I'm paying now _but_ on the existing scheme where I can upgrade when I want to... If he upgrades every other year, then JetBrains's revenue per year works out to be the exactly the same as in their subscription model. In the subscription model, if he has a down month around about the time when his JB subscription payment is due, he loses access to his tools. This could kill his business, which would -in turn- shut off the money faucet to JB. > (it's a business expense, so it's even cheaper) Does JetBrains have a business license that's cheaper than $120/year? If they don't, then $120/year is still $120/year, whether or not a business is spending the money. > Your business model seems more suspect... Do you run a business? Do you know anyone who does? There are good months and bad months; cash flow is almost never steady. Indeed, it is likely this very fact that is causing the JB people to switch to the subscription (AKA "Let's get a guaranteed revenue stream!") model of billing.
- YoureWrong 11y ago
  I don't care about the difference between $89 and $120 in the cost of a tool. I do care about the difference between license and have it to use indefinitely and continually having to pay to use the product. Notice how your comparison isn't apples to apples, because the one price is in dollars and the other is in dollar years.
- anjanb 11y ago
  I want to upgrade when I want to. I don't want to be forced to upgrade just to continue using the product! This is main grouse.

corin_ 11y ago

> * I felt it was a scam (are they going to publish an update in the next year so I get my money's worth? Probably not) but I could deal with it.* Surely under the current model you can just not pay for another year until they release an update you want access to?

dagw 11y ago
Your 1 year upgrade starts from when your last license ran, not from when you paid for the upgrade. So if your license ran out in January and you bought a 1 year upgrade next June. That upgrade would only last until next January, not next June.
piqufoh 11y ago
.. but then you lose the 'renew' discount and have to cough up full price when the update eventually arrives.
- kedean 11y ago
  So the complaint is that, because you choose not to regularly renew the software, you don't get the discount that comes with it? That sounds kind of entitled, honestly.
  - chiph 11y ago
    It goes against decades of tradition. In the past, the upgrade was offered at a discount to reward your customers for staying with you. It also reflected the lower acquisition cost for that release -- since you didn't have to spend any marketing dollars to find them. Their policy was saying "We appreciate your loyalty, but only for the next year then you'll have to go back to paying full price." But the year didn't start on the renewal date, it was back-dated to the anniversary of the original purchase date. Which meant if you didn't renew on time, you weren't getting a full year .. maybe only 8 months. It was a money-grab, but one I could tolerate.
    - bluecalm 11y ago