11 ms·

Let's stop with the Silicon Valley comparisons

32 points by weston 11y ago

zoren 11y ago
Let's stop comparisons period.
Peroni 11y ago
Unfortunately this isn't just a US-centric issue. The UK seems obsessed with comparing itself to the valley. There's even a wikipedia page for this stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_with_%22Silicon%22_names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_with_%22Silicon... My personal favourite (in an face-palmy kind of way): http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg
- randomsearch 11y ago
  > My personal favourite (in an face-palmy kind of way): http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg The problem here is an overblown claim rather a comparison, which is fundamentally a different issue.
- jballanc 11y ago
  Until very recently I lived in Bodrum, Turkey. One of the things it's famous for is the castle in its bay. "Castle" in Turkish is "Kale" (pronounced as cah-lay, close to rhyming with "valley"), so I used to joke that I worked in "Silicon Kale".
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    Quite nice city. I was there last year.
Tycho 11y ago
Wierd how the article states that Über doesn't solve "real" problems.
- amelius 11y ago
  Well they don't solve "technical" problems, so I'm wondering what they are doing in Silicon Valley. Or perhaps we should acknowledge that Silicon Valley these days is mostly about becoming the biggest brand in service-mediation, and running on external funding while making net losses year after year, and in the process pushing everybody else out of the market. It is not so much about technical innovation anymore. Look at how a lot of open source software is written in Europe and monetized in the US.
  - randomsearch 11y ago
    > Well they don't solve "technical" problems I'm fairly sure the staff of Uber would strongly disagree with you there. The logistics they manage must be vast. Dealing with the real-world is messy and hard.
    - mondoshawan 11y ago
      How is it any different than, say, Flywheel? The biggest difference I see is the skirting of taxi regulation.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - heynk 11y ago
    Genuinely curious, what are your examples for Europe based OSS that gets monetized in the U.S.?
    - plonh 11y ago
      Linux. MySQL.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- flohofwoe 11y ago
  Uber is the archetypical example of a Silicon Valley company projecting it's narrow US-centric-view onto the rest of the world. From what I gather, taxi businesses in the US seem to be in the hand of Mafia-like criminal organizations. That's not the case in most Western-European cities with good and cheap public transport and well-regulated taxi systems. If I can get from anywhere to anywhere at any time for little money already for the last 30 years, what's the point of a service like Uber, especially Uber with their shady business practices and aggressive stance towards established labour laws.
saiya-jin 11y ago
why so? it's a bubble inside a bubble. i know that feeling a bit, living in Switzerland now
randomsearch 11y ago
> If innovation is about new and different, why would we want to be something that already exists? Because you can follow the same successful approach to encouraging entrepreneurs, but innovate by producing companies that develop new products? You might want to ape silicon valley because of the huge amount of employment and wealth it generates. You don't have to be exactly the same as SV, but no reason not to be inspired by it, if you're looking to create a startup culture.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >You don't have to be exactly the same as SV, but no reason not to be inspired by it Did you read the article? Because this is exactly what it's about: "To be sure, we can learn from Silicon Valley and other more mature tech communities, but that also includes how not to do things."
  - randomsearch 11y ago
    Yes I did. If that's the takeaway, then you're still doing comparisons.
awinder 11y ago
"Many articles and lawsuits have documented the region’s lack of diversity and history of sexism and sexual harassment." Glass houses time! Michigan has the 10th highest female / male pay gap in the nation, it's been rated with an F by NARAL, and 47% of Michigan residents have no access to paid sick leave. I know it was a slick ding to break out, but if you're interested in making a distinction with California on inclusion of women and issues of sexism, michigan is lagging in this area by some key metrics. Maybe work to be done at home before worrying about other states.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
melling 11y ago
"The region is plagued with astronomical rent and real estate prices, heavy traffic, and a hyper-competitiveness that leaves depression and anxiety in its wake" The rent, real estate, and heavy traffic issues can be avoided with a little urban planning. Build a village with lots of green space: https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/views-from-hoboken/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/views-from-hoboken/
lighthawk 11y ago
Look into Detroit, but the Triangle area of NC (Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) is one of the best for startups, currently. Google just setup shop in Chapel Hill, there are plenty of startups in Durham and Raleigh, a number of major tech corps in the area, three large universities nearby, etc.
daemonk 11y ago
There is an ideology that silicon valley stands for and the reality of the place. Those two things may be very disparate concepts, but that's another debate. I think the popular use of the silicon valley comparison is an attempt to get at the ideology rather than the reality of the place.
hwstar 11y ago
Michigan needs to ban noncompete contracts. This would go a long way towards reviving the tech industry. Michigan originally banned noncompetes, but the lobbyists for the auto industry got the law changed.
codeddesign 11y ago
I am sitting here rolling my eyes as I read this article. Really what it comes down to is that state's in general want tech because tech industries tend to bring in greater wealth and with economic wealth you have lower unemployment. However, as a person born and raise in the Detroit suburb's, it's hard to imagine that Detroit or the surrounding region's would ever be a location for tech innovation. You have a VERY large percentage of the labor force with no skill's beyond manufacturing (auto industry), heavy small business tax, a youth population that is migrating out to southern and western locations of the country, a non-premium climate (winter 8 out of 12 months), heavy labor unions, and no serious push from state officials to move internal perception towards an industry/economy of technology. Until the state as a whole begins actively pushing for industry reform and SERIOUS incentives, Michigan will continue to follow it's current course which is very little tech talent, very few tech oriented companies, high small business tax, and very low incentive to start any type of innovation. It is what it is.
- rezistik 11y ago
  As another resident of the Detroit Metro, you make the world you want to see. To say you can't ever imagine the Metro being a location for tech innovation is crazy to me. Detroit and Ann Arbor both have decent start up support structures and they'll increase with time and energy.
  - codeddesign 11y ago
    I highly disagree. Beyond medical/bio, Ann Arbor is way to small to support any large scale change in the overall state market. While it does have it's own small footing, it has little resource to expand outside of it's own due to it's location. The location has corn fields to the north, west, and south. To the east...between ann arbor and detroit you have...Canton, Plymouth, Van Buren, Romulus, Taylor...all of those are heavy manufacturing communities. Which goes on to my prior point. You have to change culture in order to do that. The culture of the state is manufacturing with some bio/medical (Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids). Any innovation can really only come from 1 of 4 places... Detroit (metro), Ann Arbor, Lansing, and Grand Rapids. Ann Arbor has a small scene, but doesn't have the ability to grow without passing of that scene to a larger community. Lansing is primarily government and manufacturing. There is Michigan State University (50k+ students), but it's a school with a primary focus on agriculture and not techonology. This leaves Detroit and Grand Rapids. In regard's to Detroit, let's think about it for a moment. It is very much like taking the idea that you can easily change the culture and mindset of silicon valley from tech to manufacturing and industrial. The people in silicon valley and the surrounding area do not have the skillset as a whole to provide that type of industry. As well as through generations, the mindset of the people as a whole is not directed towards a manufacturing environment. This is what is going on with Detroit. You have had a VERY large portion of the economy (65%+) purely based on some type of auto manufacturing. This is why Detroit city is at around 20% unemployment and the surrounding metro is around 8-10% unemployment. Now..this leaves us with Grand Rapids. Which actually is a viable candidate. It has a younger generation overall, an international airport, a moderately sized city with room for expansion, and a vibrant downtown. Then..we have to look further at the ability to grow a tech environment. Is there the skill's needed? Are there investors available to fund companies in this area? Are there incentives to stay in the area? In reality, all of those answers are relatively "No". You can get better talent in a warmer climate with the same exact (if not better) opportunities (funding, viability, community backing, tax incentives..etc) in other cities with a better climate (yes, climate is really a big deal)...such as Charlotte, Atlanta, Phoenix, San Francisco, Seattle. Unless Michigan does something drastic like being a startup tax-haven, having major incubators, or the like; it will never happen. Too many other places offer the same or much better, but in a more comfortable climate. (In case anyone think's climate isn't a big deal, try moving to Alaska or Montana. They offer break's for startup's, but when was the last time you heard anyone taking those states up on their offers?).
aclissold 11y ago
As a metro Detroiter about to move to Silicon Valley, this was very interesting to read!

32 points by weston 11y ago

zoren 11y ago

Let's stop comparisons period.

Unfortunately this isn't just a US-centric issue. The UK seems obsessed with comparing itself to the valley. There's even a wikipedia page for this stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_with_%22Silicon%22_names https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_with_%22Silicon... My personal favourite (in an face-palmy kind of way): http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg

randomsearch 11y ago
> My personal favourite (in an face-palmy kind of way): http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WKYF1o9.jpg The problem here is an overblown claim rather a comparison, which is fundamentally a different issue.
jballanc 11y ago
Until very recently I lived in Bodrum, Turkey. One of the things it's famous for is the castle in its bay. "Castle" in Turkish is "Kale" (pronounced as cah-lay, close to rhyming with "valley"), so I used to joke that I worked in "Silicon Kale".
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Quite nice city. I was there last year.

Tycho 11y ago

Wierd how the article states that Über doesn't solve "real" problems.

amelius 11y ago
Well they don't solve "technical" problems, so I'm wondering what they are doing in Silicon Valley. Or perhaps we should acknowledge that Silicon Valley these days is mostly about becoming the biggest brand in service-mediation, and running on external funding while making net losses year after year, and in the process pushing everybody else out of the market. It is not so much about technical innovation anymore. Look at how a lot of open source software is written in Europe and monetized in the US.
- randomsearch 11y ago
  > Well they don't solve "technical" problems I'm fairly sure the staff of Uber would strongly disagree with you there. The logistics they manage must be vast. Dealing with the real-world is messy and hard.
  - mondoshawan 11y ago
    How is it any different than, say, Flywheel? The biggest difference I see is the skirting of taxi regulation.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- heynk 11y ago
  Genuinely curious, what are your examples for Europe based OSS that gets monetized in the U.S.?
  - plonh 11y ago
    Linux. MySQL.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
flohofwoe 11y ago
Uber is the archetypical example of a Silicon Valley company projecting it's narrow US-centric-view onto the rest of the world. From what I gather, taxi businesses in the US seem to be in the hand of Mafia-like criminal organizations. That's not the case in most Western-European cities with good and cheap public transport and well-regulated taxi systems. If I can get from anywhere to anywhere at any time for little money already for the last 30 years, what's the point of a service like Uber, especially Uber with their shady business practices and aggressive stance towards established labour laws.

saiya-jin 11y ago

why so? it's a bubble inside a bubble. i know that feeling a bit, living in Switzerland now

randomsearch 11y ago

> If innovation is about new and different, why would we want to be something that already exists? Because you can follow the same successful approach to encouraging entrepreneurs, but innovate by producing companies that develop new products? You might want to ape silicon valley because of the huge amount of employment and wealth it generates. You don't have to be exactly the same as SV, but no reason not to be inspired by it, if you're looking to create a startup culture.

forgetsusername 11y ago
>You don't have to be exactly the same as SV, but no reason not to be inspired by it Did you read the article? Because this is exactly what it's about: "To be sure, we can learn from Silicon Valley and other more mature tech communities, but that also includes how not to do things."
- randomsearch 11y ago
  Yes I did. If that's the takeaway, then you're still doing comparisons.

awinder 11y ago

"Many articles and lawsuits have documented the region’s lack of diversity and history of sexism and sexual harassment." Glass houses time! Michigan has the 10th highest female / male pay gap in the nation, it's been rated with an F by NARAL, and 47% of Michigan residents have no access to paid sick leave. I know it was a slick ding to break out, but if you're interested in making a distinction with California on inclusion of women and issues of sexism, michigan is lagging in this area by some key metrics. Maybe work to be done at home before worrying about other states.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

melling 11y ago

"The region is plagued with astronomical rent and real estate prices, heavy traffic, and a hyper-competitiveness that leaves depression and anxiety in its wake" The rent, real estate, and heavy traffic issues can be avoided with a little urban planning. Build a village with lots of green space: https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/views-from-hoboken/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/views-from-hoboken/

lighthawk 11y ago

Look into Detroit, but the Triangle area of NC (Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) is one of the best for startups, currently. Google just setup shop in Chapel Hill, there are plenty of startups in Durham and Raleigh, a number of major tech corps in the area, three large universities nearby, etc.

daemonk 11y ago

There is an ideology that silicon valley stands for and the reality of the place. Those two things may be very disparate concepts, but that's another debate. I think the popular use of the silicon valley comparison is an attempt to get at the ideology rather than the reality of the place.

hwstar 11y ago

Michigan needs to ban noncompete contracts. This would go a long way towards reviving the tech industry. Michigan originally banned noncompetes, but the lobbyists for the auto industry got the law changed.

codeddesign 11y ago

I am sitting here rolling my eyes as I read this article. Really what it comes down to is that state's in general want tech because tech industries tend to bring in greater wealth and with economic wealth you have lower unemployment. However, as a person born and raise in the Detroit suburb's, it's hard to imagine that Detroit or the surrounding region's would ever be a location for tech innovation. You have a VERY large percentage of the labor force with no skill's beyond manufacturing (auto industry), heavy small business tax, a youth population that is migrating out to southern and western locations of the country, a non-premium climate (winter 8 out of 12 months), heavy labor unions, and no serious push from state officials to move internal perception towards an industry/economy of technology. Until the state as a whole begins actively pushing for industry reform and SERIOUS incentives, Michigan will continue to follow it's current course which is very little tech talent, very few tech oriented companies, high small business tax, and very low incentive to start any type of innovation. It is what it is.

rezistik 11y ago
As another resident of the Detroit Metro, you make the world you want to see. To say you can't ever imagine the Metro being a location for tech innovation is crazy to me. Detroit and Ann Arbor both have decent start up support structures and they'll increase with time and energy.
- codeddesign 11y ago
  I highly disagree. Beyond medical/bio, Ann Arbor is way to small to support any large scale change in the overall state market. While it does have it's own small footing, it has little resource to expand outside of it's own due to it's location. The location has corn fields to the north, west, and south. To the east...between ann arbor and detroit you have...Canton, Plymouth, Van Buren, Romulus, Taylor...all of those are heavy manufacturing communities. Which goes on to my prior point. You have to change culture in order to do that. The culture of the state is manufacturing with some bio/medical (Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids). Any innovation can really only come from 1 of 4 places... Detroit (metro), Ann Arbor, Lansing, and Grand Rapids. Ann Arbor has a small scene, but doesn't have the ability to grow without passing of that scene to a larger community. Lansing is primarily government and manufacturing. There is Michigan State University (50k+ students), but it's a school with a primary focus on agriculture and not techonology. This leaves Detroit and Grand Rapids. In regard's to Detroit, let's think about it for a moment. It is very much like taking the idea that you can easily change the culture and mindset of silicon valley from tech to manufacturing and industrial. The people in silicon valley and the surrounding area do not have the skillset as a whole to provide that type of industry. As well as through generations, the mindset of the people as a whole is not directed towards a manufacturing environment. This is what is going on with Detroit. You have had a VERY large portion of the economy (65%+) purely based on some type of auto manufacturing. This is why Detroit city is at around 20% unemployment and the surrounding metro is around 8-10% unemployment. Now..this leaves us with Grand Rapids. Which actually is a viable candidate. It has a younger generation overall, an international airport, a moderately sized city with room for expansion, and a vibrant downtown. Then..we have to look further at the ability to grow a tech environment. Is there the skill's needed? Are there investors available to fund companies in this area? Are there incentives to stay in the area? In reality, all of those answers are relatively "No". You can get better talent in a warmer climate with the same exact (if not better) opportunities (funding, viability, community backing, tax incentives..etc) in other cities with a better climate (yes, climate is really a big deal)...such as Charlotte, Atlanta, Phoenix, San Francisco, Seattle. Unless Michigan does something drastic like being a startup tax-haven, having major incubators, or the like; it will never happen. Too many other places offer the same or much better, but in a more comfortable climate. (In case anyone think's climate isn't a big deal, try moving to Alaska or Montana. They offer break's for startup's, but when was the last time you heard anyone taking those states up on their offers?).

aclissold 11y ago

As a metro Detroiter about to move to Silicon Valley, this was very interesting to read!