8 ms·
How Pocket Hit 20M Users with 20 People
- nahtnam 11y agoI saved this article to my pocket to read later....
- el_blazen 11y agoepic reply bro XD
- rocky1138 11y agoI loved the Pocket Chrome extension and used it every day. Once they changed it to one that required cross-domain cookies, I uninstalled it and only used Pocket once or twice as a result. Unfortunate!
- tomfitz 11y ago"Save to Pocket (mini)", an unofficial extension, can only "Read and change data on getpocket.com" https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/save-to-pocket-mini/calnfcidhlhdmmmnicdpddbmmjmfohem https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/save-to-pocket-min...
- rocky1138 11y agoWow! Thank you!
- rw2 11y agoCurious to hear if this is actually a significant stat. It seems simple to run a app company with only 3-4 technology person if you have a scalable technical structure. With a customer facing transaction based service like Uber this would be hard. But pocket is pretty straightforward.
- hermanradtke 11y agoThey also had some really bad security holes recently exposed too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10078967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10078967 so they really didn't have this covered with 20 people.
- segmondy 11y agoWhat's your point? There are companies with thousands of engineers with pretty bad security holes too. They did it with 20 people, get over it.
- hueving 11y agoIt means the quality isn't great for the limited amount of functionality it provides. That doesn't count as 'they did it' in security-sensitive groups.
- merb 11y agoThe problem mostly can come from your tooling. I mean lots of people use and used MessageDigest.isEqual in Java however that class had a huge issue in Java 6 until Java 6 - 17 which could attackers use time attacks against your authentication scheme. Also it's not really easy to prevent against such security things with small teams if you can't rely on the tooling inside your language. Building Crypto things is really hard. So People needing to rely on. Today I've rewritten a authentication / authorization layer for one of our internal Apps, now the App is hardended against csrf, timing attacks and many more things. The only things that I used was the internal PBKDF2HmacSha256 for Passwords of Java Sha256Pnrg for Salts and I copied behaviors of the Auth0 JWT Library (i just used another json implementation which the app already had) and i have something like 200 Lines of Code. It's secure as long as MessageDigest and the PBKDF2 Code of Java is secure and that's something people can't avoid. Especially in small teams.
- segmondy 11y agoThis is not really news. Whatsapp if I recall had 500 million users with about the same size team. Plentyoffish had and might still better users/engineer ratio too. Stackoverflow as well.
- hathym 11y agoThe real question is; how much they are making?
- jermo 11y agoThere are ways to estimate revenues https://saastr.quora.com/How-to-Figure-Out-Your-Competitors%E2%80%99-Revenues-in-About-70-Seconds https://saastr.quora.com/How-to-Figure-Out-Your-Competitors%...
- sancha_ 11y agoHow many of those users were forced by updating Firefox?
- JohnTHaller 11y agoZero. Because, once again, the open source Pocket code contained within Firefox is only ever activated if you specifically choose to use it. It's not even loaded due to lazy loading.
- hueving 11y agoSo you're saying there is no new button that shows up? Claiming that zero users moved to pocket because of the automatic integration, then you're being delusional. It amounts to an endorsement from Firefox at the lease and the assumption that it's not a different company for inexperienced people.
- JohnTHaller 11y agoPlease see the parent comment again: > How many of those users were forced by updating Firefox? "forced" would be zero
- lqdc13 11y agoSure, but if you make a visible button on the second most popular browser that links to your product, you would get a lot of users and some of them would sign up for the paid service. I bet the number of users would be much smaller if there was no such button.
- Killswitch 11y agoYeah, of course the numbers would be smaller if there was no such button, nobody is saying otherwise. They're just stating that nobody was forced to use Pocket after the integration. How hard is that to understand? > Force [verb]: make (someone) do something against their will.
- eliben 11y agoI'm one of the first paying customers of Pocket. Alas, their quality has been going down recently. The most important feature - keeping the location inside an article between app invocations, is not working. For long articles, if I stop in the middle and want to resume later, there's a 80% chance that Pocket will happily set me right in the beginning. Besides, their rendering for articles with code sucks, so I almost always use "web view", a decision Pocket also forgets every other time. So I end up using Pocket as a convenient keyboard-shortcut to save articles, but on my phone actually open them into Chrome, which has no problem remembering the location in a tab.
- kstrauser 11y agoI've had the same experiences and figured that if I was only using it as bookmarking service then I might as well completely migrate to Pinboard (and various supporting apps). I've been happy with my decision.
- paulojreis 11y agoSimilar impressions here. My e-book reader (Kobo Aura) has a native feature for synchronization with a Pocket account, so I end up using Pocket as a glorified bookmarking (and content fetching) service.
- dombili 11y agoInstapaper is annoyingly great at remembering where you left off in an article. I was a Pocket user too (though not a paid one) but I switched to Instapaper because I felt like Pocket was losing focus. I'm a happy paid Instapaper user now.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- untog 11y ago..in what way? Are you talking about the Firefox Pocket integration? Because that's not really all that comparable to MSN Search (and Pocket has been around a lot longer than that integration has)
- untog 11y agoIt's interesting - the article mentions them having a lot of projects on the docket, but doesn't go into detail on most of them. I use Pocket every day and a few bugs notwithstanding, I'm very happy with it. In a weird way, them having that many projects worries me because it means it might bloat outwards from what it is today.
- 11thEarlOfMar 11y agoWhen I see stats like this, or like the 400MM users/40 devs, that WhatsApp had at one point, I can't help but think back to, say, 1985. What would it take to develop and scale a software product to that number of users? I worked for MultiScope in 1991. We had to order discs and have disc labels printed, copy the compiler onto the discs, have manuals and boxes printed, stuff and shrink-wrap the boxes, ship to Ingram Micro for distribution, and then wait 2-4 weeks for our product to show up on the shelves at Egghead. I recall 5 developers, and we were ecstatic to ship 4,000 copies of a major new version. That gets me thinking in terms of leverage. The leverage that 2015 Internet technology affords a single developer is a potent economic force.
- fla 11y agoEveryone having a computer in its pocket (no pun intended) also makes a big difference :)
- johansch 11y agoIn the 80s/90s software was really expensive though. ARPU was probably 100-500x higher than today. Late 80s/early 90: the typical software product was shrinkwrapped, cost $500, sold in the thousands to tens of thousands. Now: "Free", ad-based in some form. A few dollars per user at most. More users.
- smeyer 11y agoThere's still lots of expensive software. In many fields, the leading products are thousands of dollars a seat. There's just also now a lot of software that's a few dollars or less per user.
- someear 11y agoGreat read but not a fan of the headline. The underlying concept is good - growth and headcount dont always need to scale together, user count is too relative to the industry, company, or product. In some cases, scaling to 1000 users would be a bigger feat than scaling to 20m users.
- pg_is_a_butt 11y agoi've had 3m users with 1 person (me), working part time between classes and real jobs. this is pathetic if people see this as impressive 10 years later.
- favadi 11y agoCan someone tell me what it offers over Evernote Web Clipper?
- r3bl 11y agoIt's like Evernote's Cleary bundled with browser bookmarks. You save an article with one click, retrieve an article by visiting their website and read it in reading view similar to Cleary's. As for the Web Clipper, I don't think that there's any similarity.
- brayton 11y ago> "If save-for-later service Pocket had a spirit animal, it’d be the American field ant." We need an ongoing list of startups and their spirit animals. How else will I know what products to use.
- throwccc1 11y agoI think I remember in the early days there being pushback from content providers about not getting clickthroughs, ad impressions. What's the status of this type of service re: copyright? Neither Pocket nor users have any right to transform / create derivative works -- is there some loophole here about personal use and not re-distributing? Is it a copyright violation to make a cross-stitch version of a tweet for your living room? To provide a meme generator service that uses NYT headlines?
- matthewmcg 11y ago"Neither Pocket nor users have any right to transform / create derivative works " Here in the U.S. this kind of copying by end users is probably fair use, which is a defense to copyright infringement. There is a line of cases that authorize home recording of video broadcasts. I think the reasoning upholding this "time shifting" or "format shifting" would also apply to a read it later service. It is very unlikely that a publisher would ever try to sue an individual reader for using one of these services. It is more likely they would try to shut down the service itself by claiming that the service induces or is liable for contributing to the end-users' copyright infringement. But these claims would fail if what the users are doing is fair use. The weakness of the U.S.-style fair use concept is that it is a case-by-case determination based on several vague factors. Getting a legal case to the point where this determination is actually made is very expensive, so we don't have much precedent to rely on for new kinds of activities. And what precedent we do have is not always easily extended to new activities or technologies. There's a nice overview of fair use here if you're curious: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/ http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-u...
- Killswitch 11y agoVery good article, makes me feel better being a sole employee of a SaaS.
- aresant 11y agoJust a random note - https://getpocket.com/ https://getpocket.com/ lists 17,000,000 users on their badge @ the bottom, last update I found was in April @ 12m (1), and this article highlights 20m Back in the day when we built the Trapster.com website (prior to the Nokia team takeover) we a/b tested a static user # that we updated monthly vs. a # that changed and was specific to usage / etc. We found that the specific was a significant conversion driver and we executed several tests to get that message closer to the top (2). Of course this was also back in the day where consumers looked on desktops for the app to download vs. the modern trained user that looks on app store. But maybe something to consider moving up the page and building a script to execute more frequently. (1) http://web.archive.org/web/20150325061108/https://getpocket.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20150325061108/https://getpocket.... (2) http://web.archive.org/web/20130812132821/http://www.trapster.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20130812132821/http://www.trapste...
- kordless 11y agoThe Bandwagon Bias is powerful.
- omouse 11y agoShame it isn't free/open source.
- josu 11y agoIt is free and some of its code is open source: https://github.com/Pocket https://github.com/Pocket
- jkbr 11y agoI love Pocket. I'm a paying customer. But… I'm also super annoyed by its bugs and will be happy to switch to a payed alternative, that: 1. has a decent HTML parser that doesn't omit images from articles all the bloody time 2. implements a proper state restoration mechanism for its iOS app. It's exhausting having to scroll through my entire article list trying to find the one I was reading (and then finding the original position) every time I switch to Safari to look something up and then back 3. has a highlights & notes feature as a bonus Please?
- bthdonohue 11y agoI work at Instapaper, which competes with Pocket. We have #2 and #3, #1 is a difficult problem and we face the same challenges as Pocket and others.
- achompas 11y agoI use Instapaper, and switched from Pocket way back when for these exact reasons (highlights and saving my position). They're implemented wonderfully.
- jkbr 11y agoThis sounds promising. Pocket's inability to remember the current article/position is one of the most obvious, annoying, and (at least by me) reported bugs ever. It makes the app close to useless. Yet they're unwilling to do anything about it. So I'll happily switch for this alone. And highlights/notes is a dream comes true Going to give Instapaper a shot. Thanks!
- hokkos 11y agoThe new Firefox pocket extension is pure shit, I still use the old one. Please maintain it, not the one forced on users.
- misterjinx 11y agoThey announced [1] back in June that the old extension will not be actively developed, and recommend everyone to move over to the new one. [1] https://getpocket.com/blog/2015/06/pocket-is-now-built-into-firefox/ https://getpocket.com/blog/2015/06/pocket-is-now-built-into-...
- dovereconomics 11y agoFor their size,its funding history is even more impressive: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/pocket https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/pocket
- downandout 11y agoI always find it frustrating that these articles get upvoted, yet they rarely talk about how the company actually grew to X million users - which would be the only useful thing in this article for nearly all of the people that are reading it. An article that talks about how to manage things when your startup magically gains 20M users is useless you happen to be one of the less than 100 people on the planet that have actually had this happen to them.
- tacoman 11y agoI'm anti-cloud. e.g. I run my own mail server and do web hosting for fun. I have a poster of Snowden in my office. But I signed up for Pocket because it does two things very well. It lets me send things to my Kobo e-reader via email and gets around pay-walled content. I don't recall ever seeing ads either. I don't pay for the service because I don't need the for-pay features, but would in fact pay for the basic service if it wasn't free. I wouldn't even mind if they in turn payed NYT, New Yorker, etc for the content I'm getting.
- jcoder 11y agoDid they ever start using HTTPS? When I tried it a while back, it was HTTP-only.
- anotherevan 11y agoIs it just me, or was that article more fluff than anything else? I have a Kobo ereader and so use Pocket for saving articles that I want to read later, away from the computer. Have found it works very well for this. (That said, if my ereader integrated Instapaper or Readability I’d probably be just as happy.) My one complaint is that every now and again it finds an article it cannot extract the main content from. In that case it never ends up on my ereader, and there’s no obvious indication that there is a problem. To track my readying habits, I wrote a little PHP browser based application that interfaces with the Pocket API (and the hn.algolia.com API). Once I’ve read an article I archive it. Then when I’m back at my computer I run my app, which lists the archived articles, any related Hacker News pages, and lets me manage the articles (delete, save locally, etc.). It makes it easy for me to follow up and read the HN discussions after I’ve found the time to read the article. Naturally I called it Pocket Lint.