6 ms·

> Now after ten years mostly working in large companies, I have some savings which will allow me to last two years in case I lose my job. After 10 years of bei

by aianus 11y ago

> Now after ten years mostly working in large companies, I have some savings which will allow me to last two years in case I lose my job. After 10 years of being a software engineer you should have enough to retire forever (albeit in some third world country).

beambot 11y ago
From a disadvantaged family (no initial savings) and perhaps student loans (ill-advised, but not uncommon) -- it's not unthinkable that he hasn't hit "soft retire" numbers after 10 years. But your sentiment is correct: If you're debt-free, you should be able to "soft retire" after 10 years as a software engineer in today's markets.
- artmageddon 11y ago
  Can you elaborate on what you mean by "soft retire"?
  - beambot 11y ago
    Build a sufficiently large investment portfolio such that annual income from investments approximately equals annual expenses. Note that this may require moving to an area with lower cost of living (eg. working in SFBA for 10 years and then moving to the midwest). The approximate rule of thumb (not accounting for investment variability, so be careful!) is that you can extract 4% of your investments annually without affecting the basis (while adjusting it for inflation). So if you can live off that 4% (ie. $40k off a $1M investment portfolio), then you can "soft retire." There are entire communities dedicated to this notion (eg. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim...)
- swalsh 11y ago
  Another thing to factor in is being from a lower income area will distort your perception of what a large number is. I come from a town where the per capita income is 20k. My first "real" job was doing tech support at $16/hr. It felt like A LOT of money to me. I thought I was getting overpaid, that sentiment followed me for years. Today making 125k I still feel overpaid, though when I look at the value I produce for the company, and the numbers of my peers I know it's not. It took me many years to get to 125k because each step up the ladder felt pretty big to me even though it probably wasn't compared to my peers. Pay is very relative. I look at my old high school buddies, they range from 25k-40k. The first time I asked for 100k, I thought it was craziness. Like no human being deserves that amount of money. So it took me several years to build up to that number.
  - imauld 11y ago
    I can completely relate to this. Doing a practice interview with a career counselor we got to the part about negotiating pay. I said I had no idea how to do this. She said ask for 70k as a junior developer. I told her that, that felt like saying "I'll be needing all the money in the world please."
  - merpnderp 11y ago
    What part of the country do you live in? That's a great salary in some places, and an incredible salary in others.
bakhy 11y ago
if you have no life outside work, sure ;)
- aianus 11y ago
  No, that's if you take home $100k and 'only' spend half of it (which already represents the median household income in the US)
  - bakhy 11y ago
    OK, but how many developers in the US get $100k? Throughout the first 10 years of their career? And I'm sorry, I should explain - I live and work in the EU, in Germany right now. So I can't compare. In any case, one can certainly save, and I'm not gonna lie, I could certainly spend less without losing too much :) But a claim like "10 years is enough to retire" seems a bit extreme.
    - aianus 11y ago
      $100k after tax (including stock) is basically starting salary in the valley for 22-year-old college graduates at big companies.
      - bakhy 11y ago
        well, a full answer to the question would also need the percentage of college graduates that land jobs in big companies in the valley... P.S. I don't think we'll get far with this... i just noticed, e.g., "median household income in the US" - that seems a tricky thing to compare with, given that many ppl in the US don't have health insurance, or live in trailer parks eating off food stamps...
        aianus 11y ago
        I think almost all my (upper-year) classmates got offers to at least one of Amazon/Microsoft/Google/Facebook/Twitter/Palantir/Uber. And I went to a school in Canada that nobody's ever heard of (University of Waterloo).
MisterBastahrd 11y ago
.... what planet do you live on? That certainly isn't the case for the vast majority of developers, even if their lifestyle involves a studio apartment and ramen noodles.
- aianus 11y ago
  GDP per capita in Vietnam is $2k. I think you're overestimating how much it costs to retire. Even $500k would be enough that you'd never touch the principle.
  - Jtsummers 11y ago
    I think you're underestimating the social cost of moving halfway around the world to a place where you aren't familiar with the culture or language or people. If you're single and socially unattached, your proposition is viable. But you can't readily expect someone's SO and/or children to be as willing to cut ties with their home. And if you have a solid group of friends, that's a big thing to give up and to try and rebuild in a foreign land without the benefit of common language and culture.
radmuzom 11y ago
I am from a third world country myself :) and have always earned in the country's currency. And even though I did start working as a software engineer in the startup I mentioned, I did not eventually continue in the field and do statistical modelling for a living (which pays much more than the average software engineer here).

by aianus 11y ago

beambot 11y ago

From a disadvantaged family (no initial savings) and perhaps student loans (ill-advised, but not uncommon) -- it's not unthinkable that he hasn't hit "soft retire" numbers after 10 years. But your sentiment is correct: If you're debt-free, you should be able to "soft retire" after 10 years as a software engineer in today's markets.

artmageddon 11y ago
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "soft retire"?
- beambot 11y ago
  Build a sufficiently large investment portfolio such that annual income from investments approximately equals annual expenses. Note that this may require moving to an area with lower cost of living (eg. working in SFBA for 10 years and then moving to the midwest). The approximate rule of thumb (not accounting for investment variability, so be careful!) is that you can extract 4% of your investments annually without affecting the basis (while adjusting it for inflation). So if you can live off that 4% (ie. $40k off a $1M investment portfolio), then you can "soft retire." There are entire communities dedicated to this notion (eg. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim...)
swalsh 11y ago
Another thing to factor in is being from a lower income area will distort your perception of what a large number is. I come from a town where the per capita income is 20k. My first "real" job was doing tech support at $16/hr. It felt like A LOT of money to me. I thought I was getting overpaid, that sentiment followed me for years. Today making 125k I still feel overpaid, though when I look at the value I produce for the company, and the numbers of my peers I know it's not. It took me many years to get to 125k because each step up the ladder felt pretty big to me even though it probably wasn't compared to my peers. Pay is very relative. I look at my old high school buddies, they range from 25k-40k. The first time I asked for 100k, I thought it was craziness. Like no human being deserves that amount of money. So it took me several years to build up to that number.
- imauld 11y ago
  I can completely relate to this. Doing a practice interview with a career counselor we got to the part about negotiating pay. I said I had no idea how to do this. She said ask for 70k as a junior developer. I told her that, that felt like saying "I'll be needing all the money in the world please."
- merpnderp 11y ago
  What part of the country do you live in? That's a great salary in some places, and an incredible salary in others.

bakhy 11y ago

if you have no life outside work, sure ;)

aianus 11y ago
No, that's if you take home $100k and 'only' spend half of it (which already represents the median household income in the US)
- bakhy 11y ago
  OK, but how many developers in the US get $100k? Throughout the first 10 years of their career? And I'm sorry, I should explain - I live and work in the EU, in Germany right now. So I can't compare. In any case, one can certainly save, and I'm not gonna lie, I could certainly spend less without losing too much :) But a claim like "10 years is enough to retire" seems a bit extreme.
  - aianus 11y ago
    $100k after tax (including stock) is basically starting salary in the valley for 22-year-old college graduates at big companies.
    - bakhy 11y ago
      well, a full answer to the question would also need the percentage of college graduates that land jobs in big companies in the valley... P.S. I don't think we'll get far with this... i just noticed, e.g., "median household income in the US" - that seems a tricky thing to compare with, given that many ppl in the US don't have health insurance, or live in trailer parks eating off food stamps...
      - aianus 11y ago
        I think almost all my (upper-year) classmates got offers to at least one of Amazon/Microsoft/Google/Facebook/Twitter/Palantir/Uber. And I went to a school in Canada that nobody's ever heard of (University of Waterloo).

MisterBastahrd 11y ago

.... what planet do you live on? That certainly isn't the case for the vast majority of developers, even if their lifestyle involves a studio apartment and ramen noodles.

aianus 11y ago
GDP per capita in Vietnam is $2k. I think you're overestimating how much it costs to retire. Even $500k would be enough that you'd never touch the principle.
- Jtsummers 11y ago
  I think you're underestimating the social cost of moving halfway around the world to a place where you aren't familiar with the culture or language or people. If you're single and socially unattached, your proposition is viable. But you can't readily expect someone's SO and/or children to be as willing to cut ties with their home. And if you have a solid group of friends, that's a big thing to give up and to try and rebuild in a foreign land without the benefit of common language and culture.

radmuzom 11y ago

I am from a third world country myself :) and have always earned in the country's currency. And even though I did start working as a software engineer in the startup I mentioned, I did not eventually continue in the field and do statistical modelling for a living (which pays much more than the average software engineer here).