5 ms·

WebRTC in Safari?

49 points by arnaudbud 11y ago

rsy96 11y ago
So now I have to find out how to disable WebRTC or just STUN to avoid my true public ip address leaking (while on VPN).
- lern_too_spel 11y ago
  Just use https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/webrtc-network-limiter/npeicpdbkakmehahjeeohfdhnlpdklia https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/webrtc-network-lim...
  - rsy96 11y ago
    How will a Chrome extension prevent WebRTC ip leaking in Safari?
    - OldSchoolPro 11y ago
      Install Chrome, install extension, don't use Safari :)
MBCook 11y ago
As someone who doesn't know what WebRTC is, I can only guess after reading the article that it has something to do with video. The article goes through an effort to explai WebKit and Safari but never makes a single mention about WebRTC. Title of the blog doesn't help either.
- zaheermerali 11y ago
  I see plenty of mentions of WebRTC but yes, the blog's target audience are people who are in the WebRTC space. There is also a link to slides explaining WebRTC in the article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC is helpful in case those aren't enough.
- schwabacher 11y ago
  It's 'web real time communication' - you can use it for peer to peer voice or video chat, as well as passing arbitrary data between peers w/ javascript.
- droopybuns 11y ago
  As someone who does know what web RTC is, I find your comment interesting. Strange that a hacker news reader wouldn't know what webrtc is nor how to handle being unaware of a technology. This posting is interesting because webrtc support has lagged in safari. Webrtc is about more than just video and worth looking up.
- fl3x1n 11y ago
  I wondered that, too. It seemed like it was just absentmindedly forgotten to be mentioned. On a second, closer read, I realized that it was actually a design issue. The default text was chosen to be grey, and the link text color to be dark blue-grey. Essentially, links are indistinguishable from the text they are interspersed with. If you click the link and jump to it when you see it in the first paragraph, you'll find further details. "As you know, Stefan H from Ericson R&D, and Chair of the webrtc working group @ w3c and myself have been instrumental in starting the webrtc in webkit initiative[THAT WAS THE LINK!]." ...it gives you this: "WebRTC is a set of browser APIs and protocols being worked on by the W3C and IETF standardization bodies. With WebRTC, developers can quickly add real-time peer-2-peer audio, video and data capabilities to their web applications through a set of standardised JavaScript APIs. WebKit today lacks support for this exciting new standard. Our intention is to add WebRTC support to WebKit, starting with the WebKit GTK+ port (Linux), by means of the OpenWebRTC implementation. Much of the WebRTC support will be implemented in the core of WebKit and therefore shared among all WebKit ports. This will also enable integration of other WebRTC backends such as webrtc.org." http://www.webrtcinwebkit.org http://www.webrtcinwebkit.org It would have been nice if that had just been summarized and added into the post though. It's kind of annoying to have to jump around to a bunch of different places when all you're trying to do is soak up information quickly and move on to the next thing. It really pulls you out of the flow of the article, gets you out of the mindset of "I'm just sitting here reading an article." (into something more like "now here's a 1. visual puzzle where I have to figure out which elements are clickable, and 2. one too many click-throughs and back-buttons, figuring out where I was back on the main page, and trying to resume reading.
- aikah 11y ago
  think peer 2 peer / real time communication .It's no more than that.
- untog 11y ago
  Did it not occur to you to look it up? An article is not required to define every term it uses - imagine if news stories defined what the "President of the United States" was every time he was written about.
agouaillard 11y ago
Post updated to reflect all the comments. cheers.
Khaine 11y ago
Why would I want any of this in a web browser?
- iwwr 11y ago
  Because it's the lowest common denominator and most "portable" platform out there. It also allows client-to-client communication without an intermediary server.
  - Khaine 11y ago
    Its a web browser. Its suppose to be used to view web sites! Its not a chat client, or a game!
- greggman 11y ago
  What's the alternative? Installing native apps that can own your machine, install root kits, and spy on your entire system? Why would I want to install a native app to do any of this (skype, google hangouts, fb messenger, ...) if I can do it in a browser and not have to trust the app?
  - hollerith 11y ago
    Statistically speaking, more users get owned via web browsers than via native apps, and that is unlikely to change if people keep on adding new APIs to web browsers because every time a new API is added to my web browser, every web site I visit gets a chance to use the new API to try to own me. I certainly understand why developers and others find it convenient and profitable to keep on adding APIs the client part of the global client-server document-publishing platform, but I am simply amazed to come across someone using security of all things as an argument or a justification for doing it. Think about what you are saying! You have a new API you want to make available to developers, but of course it is really hard to create an API that cannot be exploited, so to keep things as secure as possible, every time the user needs to check the weather forecast, look at the new photos of the grandkids or look for a new recipe, some random web server plus zero-or-more third-party ad servers should get a crack at exploiting the new API!
shmerl 11y ago
So, will Apple support Opus now?
joshontheweb 11y ago
This is awesome news! I had begun to lose hope that this would happen anytime soon. I'm building my business on using this api to help podcasters record in high quality (http://zencastr.com http://zencastr.com). Currently I can only support Chrome and Firefox. Adding Safari to the list is most welcome and will open up the possibility for iOS users as well.
pepijndevos 11y ago
Great news! Not because I use WebRTC at all, but because I use Safari. Why would you do that?? It integrates nicely with the OS. Spell checking, keychain, services, keyboard shortcuts, right-click dictionary lookup, easy link sharing. Little things. I have recently noticed more and more sites are starting to break on Safari. Ever since Chrome forked webkit, it has started to lag behind. Since Safari has a small marketshare and a different engine from the major players, some sites dropped support for it. A prime example is file-upload to Github issues. You'd think that uploading files is as old as the web itself, but when you try to do this in Safari, it says something like "Sorry, Safari does not support file attachments. Please use a modern browser like Firefox or Chrome."
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  If the only way for me to test your small market share desktop browser is to buy hardware from you because you artificially lock your os to your hardware, I'm not going to test on your browser. On Mac OS, the solution for users is to run a different browser like Chrome or Firefox, as nearly all of my Mac friends do. If this issue starts to affect media consumption sites on iOS's Safari, that's another story since iOS users aren't allowed to use an alternate browser (they're all running Safari underneath).
  - wbl 11y ago
    It's file upload: I'm 99.9% sure that the most braindead 90's style way of doing it will work on all browsers today, and continue to work in the future. Why do you need to break it?
    - untog 11y ago
      Newer methods allow you to do a lot more - report progress of the upload, even read the file locally before upload (so you can resize images, for example). They're all great features to add, and I guess that GitHub decided that it was worth adding them and not keeping an older experience for Safari users. IMO, they're both at fault here. GitHub should be able to provide a fallback, but also Safari should be keeping up to date.
untog 11y ago
Great news, but sad news. Obviously this isn't coming in iOS9, so we've got to wait at least another year before we get to use it. Apple: please, please decouple Safari from the OS, and use App Store updates to update your browser more frequently.
rebootthesystem 11y ago
What bothers me about WebRTC is that it can be used to penetrate privacy measures. More specifically, for IP address discovery. Other than that, full speed ahead!
- Khaine 11y ago
  Not only privacy concerns, but for an enterprise, security concerns. I see this as potentially another mechanism for APT exploitation
arnaudbud 11y ago
UPDATE: https://bloggeek.me/webrtc-plugin-free-world-is-almost-here-apple-and-microsoft-joining-the-crowd/ https://bloggeek.me/webrtc-plugin-free-world-is-almost-here-...

WebRTC in Safari?

49 points by arnaudbud 11y ago

rsy96 11y ago

So now I have to find out how to disable WebRTC or just STUN to avoid my true public ip address leaking (while on VPN).

lern_too_spel 11y ago
Just use https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/webrtc-network-limiter/npeicpdbkakmehahjeeohfdhnlpdklia https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/webrtc-network-lim...
- rsy96 11y ago
  How will a Chrome extension prevent WebRTC ip leaking in Safari?
  - OldSchoolPro 11y ago
    Install Chrome, install extension, don't use Safari :)

MBCook 11y ago

As someone who doesn't know what WebRTC is, I can only guess after reading the article that it has something to do with video. The article goes through an effort to explai WebKit and Safari but never makes a single mention about WebRTC. Title of the blog doesn't help either.

zaheermerali 11y ago
I see plenty of mentions of WebRTC but yes, the blog's target audience are people who are in the WebRTC space. There is also a link to slides explaining WebRTC in the article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebRTC is helpful in case those aren't enough.
schwabacher 11y ago
It's 'web real time communication' - you can use it for peer to peer voice or video chat, as well as passing arbitrary data between peers w/ javascript.
droopybuns 11y ago
As someone who does know what web RTC is, I find your comment interesting. Strange that a hacker news reader wouldn't know what webrtc is nor how to handle being unaware of a technology. This posting is interesting because webrtc support has lagged in safari. Webrtc is about more than just video and worth looking up.
fl3x1n 11y ago
I wondered that, too. It seemed like it was just absentmindedly forgotten to be mentioned. On a second, closer read, I realized that it was actually a design issue. The default text was chosen to be grey, and the link text color to be dark blue-grey. Essentially, links are indistinguishable from the text they are interspersed with. If you click the link and jump to it when you see it in the first paragraph, you'll find further details. "As you know, Stefan H from Ericson R&D, and Chair of the webrtc working group @ w3c and myself have been instrumental in starting the webrtc in webkit initiative[THAT WAS THE LINK!]." ...it gives you this: "WebRTC is a set of browser APIs and protocols being worked on by the W3C and IETF standardization bodies. With WebRTC, developers can quickly add real-time peer-2-peer audio, video and data capabilities to their web applications through a set of standardised JavaScript APIs. WebKit today lacks support for this exciting new standard. Our intention is to add WebRTC support to WebKit, starting with the WebKit GTK+ port (Linux), by means of the OpenWebRTC implementation. Much of the WebRTC support will be implemented in the core of WebKit and therefore shared among all WebKit ports. This will also enable integration of other WebRTC backends such as webrtc.org." http://www.webrtcinwebkit.org http://www.webrtcinwebkit.org It would have been nice if that had just been summarized and added into the post though. It's kind of annoying to have to jump around to a bunch of different places when all you're trying to do is soak up information quickly and move on to the next thing. It really pulls you out of the flow of the article, gets you out of the mindset of "I'm just sitting here reading an article." (into something more like "now here's a 1. visual puzzle where I have to figure out which elements are clickable, and 2. one too many click-throughs and back-buttons, figuring out where I was back on the main page, and trying to resume reading.
aikah 11y ago
think peer 2 peer / real time communication .It's no more than that.
untog 11y ago
Did it not occur to you to look it up? An article is not required to define every term it uses - imagine if news stories defined what the "President of the United States" was every time he was written about.

agouaillard 11y ago

Post updated to reflect all the comments. cheers.

Khaine 11y ago

Why would I want any of this in a web browser?

iwwr 11y ago
Because it's the lowest common denominator and most "portable" platform out there. It also allows client-to-client communication without an intermediary server.
- Khaine 11y ago
  Its a web browser. Its suppose to be used to view web sites! Its not a chat client, or a game!
greggman 11y ago
What's the alternative? Installing native apps that can own your machine, install root kits, and spy on your entire system? Why would I want to install a native app to do any of this (skype, google hangouts, fb messenger, ...) if I can do it in a browser and not have to trust the app?
- hollerith 11y ago
  Statistically speaking, more users get owned via web browsers than via native apps, and that is unlikely to change if people keep on adding new APIs to web browsers because every time a new API is added to my web browser, every web site I visit gets a chance to use the new API to try to own me. I certainly understand why developers and others find it convenient and profitable to keep on adding APIs the client part of the global client-server document-publishing platform, but I am simply amazed to come across someone using security of all things as an argument or a justification for doing it. Think about what you are saying! You have a new API you want to make available to developers, but of course it is really hard to create an API that cannot be exploited, so to keep things as secure as possible, every time the user needs to check the weather forecast, look at the new photos of the grandkids or look for a new recipe, some random web server plus zero-or-more third-party ad servers should get a crack at exploiting the new API!

shmerl 11y ago

So, will Apple support Opus now?

joshontheweb 11y ago

This is awesome news! I had begun to lose hope that this would happen anytime soon. I'm building my business on using this api to help podcasters record in high quality (http://zencastr.com http://zencastr.com). Currently I can only support Chrome and Firefox. Adding Safari to the list is most welcome and will open up the possibility for iOS users as well.

pepijndevos 11y ago

Great news! Not because I use WebRTC at all, but because I use Safari. Why would you do that?? It integrates nicely with the OS. Spell checking, keychain, services, keyboard shortcuts, right-click dictionary lookup, easy link sharing. Little things. I have recently noticed more and more sites are starting to break on Safari. Ever since Chrome forked webkit, it has started to lag behind. Since Safari has a small marketshare and a different engine from the major players, some sites dropped support for it. A prime example is file-upload to Github issues. You'd think that uploading files is as old as the web itself, but when you try to do this in Safari, it says something like "Sorry, Safari does not support file attachments. Please use a modern browser like Firefox or Chrome."

JohnTHaller 11y ago
If the only way for me to test your small market share desktop browser is to buy hardware from you because you artificially lock your os to your hardware, I'm not going to test on your browser. On Mac OS, the solution for users is to run a different browser like Chrome or Firefox, as nearly all of my Mac friends do. If this issue starts to affect media consumption sites on iOS's Safari, that's another story since iOS users aren't allowed to use an alternate browser (they're all running Safari underneath).
- wbl 11y ago
  It's file upload: I'm 99.9% sure that the most braindead 90's style way of doing it will work on all browsers today, and continue to work in the future. Why do you need to break it?
  - untog 11y ago
    Newer methods allow you to do a lot more - report progress of the upload, even read the file locally before upload (so you can resize images, for example). They're all great features to add, and I guess that GitHub decided that it was worth adding them and not keeping an older experience for Safari users. IMO, they're both at fault here. GitHub should be able to provide a fallback, but also Safari should be keeping up to date.

untog 11y ago

Great news, but sad news. Obviously this isn't coming in iOS9, so we've got to wait at least another year before we get to use it. Apple: please, please decouple Safari from the OS, and use App Store updates to update your browser more frequently.

rebootthesystem 11y ago

What bothers me about WebRTC is that it can be used to penetrate privacy measures. More specifically, for IP address discovery. Other than that, full speed ahead!

Khaine 11y ago
Not only privacy concerns, but for an enterprise, security concerns. I see this as potentially another mechanism for APT exploitation

arnaudbud 11y ago

UPDATE: https://bloggeek.me/webrtc-plugin-free-world-is-almost-here-apple-and-microsoft-joining-the-crowd/ https://bloggeek.me/webrtc-plugin-free-world-is-almost-here-...