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As a voter in Australia I actually wrote and called my representative. The response I received was borderline insulting. At this point I have no choice but civi

by boyter 11y ago

As a voter in Australia I actually wrote and called my representative. The response I received was borderline insulting. At this point I have no choice but civil disobedience or to leave the country. Both of the main parties pushed this through and both are unlikely to ever repeal this law. I'm angry. I feel betrayed by representative democracy. The system is absolutely insane.

techdragon 11y ago
As an Australian, I'm doing what I can to legally shift my tax burdens to other jurisdictions. I'm hiring more overseas and looking to shift the registration and tax obligations of the corporations I'm involved with to Switzerland.
contingencies 11y ago
Yep. OP here. I left the country 15 years ago but care deeply about its downward spiral in to US-style totalitarian anti-democratic corporate hegemony. New Zealand seems to be doing a lot better, though still on the same path. The sad fact is, I feel more free here in China than the US/UK, and it seems to me that Australia's only a little behind those jurisdictions in its rapid descent.
- narrowrail 11y ago
  >I feel more free here in China than the US/UK It seems a bit hyperbolic to write something like this right when the Chinese economy has been in a tail spin, and the Chinese government has been censoring the press coverage of declining value of public companies (many of which have significant government ownership stakes).
  - contingencies 11y ago
    Well, perhaps I should clarify that it's felt that way for a good while. Likewise, it seems telling that you conflate economy and freedoms.
    - narrowrail 11y ago
      >it seems telling that you conflate economy and freedoms. What? I didn't conflate the two, and I don't know what that is telling of exactly. The freedom to report (i.e. press freedom) on the economy and the economy itself are 2 separate things, and the Chinese government was censoring the press.
      - contingencies 11y ago
        You did conflate the two. Me: "I feel more free here in China than the US/UK" [doesn't include economy] You: "It seems a bit hyperbolic to write something like this right when the Chinese economy has been in a tail spin, and the Chinese government has been censoring the press coverage of declining value of public companies (many of which have significant government ownership stakes)." [includes economy] That's called conflating two issues. While you are correct that China censors the press, the western press is also deeply controlled and manipulated for political purpose. For example, the UK has more concurrent gag orders in operation than anywhere else on earth. US and Australian media ownership is ridiculously centralized, worse if you include viewership.
- tajen 11y ago
  Australia is 23m inhabitants. I doubt it has much power to counter any trend or push made by the USA.
chii 11y ago
> The response I received was borderline insulting i know identifying your representitive might identify you too much, but if you could make that name public (which could potentially cost you personally, so i suggest you think hard before you do) and publish your letter and responses, it might make others who sees this and feel the same way you do to vote differently.
- boyter 11y ago
  Phillip Ruddock. So probably the worst possible person to have as a representative on anything modern. I burnt the letter response out of pure spite unfortunately. I doubt it would make any difference though. His seat is very safe and unlikely to change even if he retires.
collyw 11y ago
I contacted my MP in the UK a while ago .The reply was "our party view is X, thats what we will be representing in parliment". I wrote back expaining that I didn't believe that was how representative democracy was suposed to work. Doubt it made any dfference.
- hga 11y ago
  Well, that's how the Westminster parliamentary system tends to work in practice. As Wikipedia puts it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system#Criticisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system#Criticisms): The threat posed by non-confidence votes is often used to justify extremely well-disciplined legislative parties in Westminster systems. In order to ensure the government always has the confidence of the majority of the house, the political culture of Westminster nations often makes it highly unusual for a legislator to vote against their party. Critics argue this in turn undermines the freedom and importance of Members of Parliament (MPs) in day-to-day legislating, making the cabinet the only organ of government where individual legislators can aspire to influence the decisions of the government.
  - collyw 11y ago
    So no "representative" part in representative democracy. Might as well just call it an elected doctatorship, as thats what its closer to.
    - hga 11y ago
      Yes it is. For the duration of the party or collation's control, said ruling majority has complete legislative and executive power, unless it screws up so much that it loses a vote of confidence. If the system doesn't have a strong constitution, like the U.K. ... well, in US terms, imagine the current majority completely changing the way Senators are selected, and replacing the Supreme Court with a different institution. Tony Blair's New Labour did the former with the House of Lords, don't remember who changed them from being the U.K.'s highest court. It is indeed an elected dictatorship, and something we in the US very explicitly rejected. And for some inexplicable reason, in both the U.K. and Australia, the governments (this is generally any of them as far as I know) have all but completely disarmed the people, eliminating as much as they can that ultimate form of feedback; strange, that. (It's not true of Canada, and to a lessor extent New Zealand.)
PebblesHD 11y ago
At least your representatives even responded. Mine not only ignored a host of physical letters and emails but then refused even a ten minute meeting to explain their point of view on the issue. Whats the point of an elected official if they don't intend to deal with their electorate? Add to that the current government's behaviour on other social issues and its starting to look like they really miss the 1950s or the cold war when their security apparatus actually had a purpose.

by boyter 11y ago

techdragon 11y ago

As an Australian, I'm doing what I can to legally shift my tax burdens to other jurisdictions. I'm hiring more overseas and looking to shift the registration and tax obligations of the corporations I'm involved with to Switzerland.

contingencies 11y ago

Yep. OP here. I left the country 15 years ago but care deeply about its downward spiral in to US-style totalitarian anti-democratic corporate hegemony. New Zealand seems to be doing a lot better, though still on the same path. The sad fact is, I feel more free here in China than the US/UK, and it seems to me that Australia's only a little behind those jurisdictions in its rapid descent.

narrowrail 11y ago
>I feel more free here in China than the US/UK It seems a bit hyperbolic to write something like this right when the Chinese economy has been in a tail spin, and the Chinese government has been censoring the press coverage of declining value of public companies (many of which have significant government ownership stakes).
- contingencies 11y ago
  Well, perhaps I should clarify that it's felt that way for a good while. Likewise, it seems telling that you conflate economy and freedoms.
  - narrowrail 11y ago
    >it seems telling that you conflate economy and freedoms. What? I didn't conflate the two, and I don't know what that is telling of exactly. The freedom to report (i.e. press freedom) on the economy and the economy itself are 2 separate things, and the Chinese government was censoring the press.
    - contingencies 11y ago
      You did conflate the two. Me: "I feel more free here in China than the US/UK" [doesn't include economy] You: "It seems a bit hyperbolic to write something like this right when the Chinese economy has been in a tail spin, and the Chinese government has been censoring the press coverage of declining value of public companies (many of which have significant government ownership stakes)." [includes economy] That's called conflating two issues. While you are correct that China censors the press, the western press is also deeply controlled and manipulated for political purpose. For example, the UK has more concurrent gag orders in operation than anywhere else on earth. US and Australian media ownership is ridiculously centralized, worse if you include viewership.
tajen 11y ago
Australia is 23m inhabitants. I doubt it has much power to counter any trend or push made by the USA.

chii 11y ago

> The response I received was borderline insulting i know identifying your representitive might identify you too much, but if you could make that name public (which could potentially cost you personally, so i suggest you think hard before you do) and publish your letter and responses, it might make others who sees this and feel the same way you do to vote differently.

boyter 11y ago
Phillip Ruddock. So probably the worst possible person to have as a representative on anything modern. I burnt the letter response out of pure spite unfortunately. I doubt it would make any difference though. His seat is very safe and unlikely to change even if he retires.

collyw 11y ago

I contacted my MP in the UK a while ago .The reply was "our party view is X, thats what we will be representing in parliment". I wrote back expaining that I didn't believe that was how representative democracy was suposed to work. Doubt it made any dfference.

hga 11y ago
Well, that's how the Westminster parliamentary system tends to work in practice. As Wikipedia puts it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system#Criticisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system#Criticisms): The threat posed by non-confidence votes is often used to justify extremely well-disciplined legislative parties in Westminster systems. In order to ensure the government always has the confidence of the majority of the house, the political culture of Westminster nations often makes it highly unusual for a legislator to vote against their party. Critics argue this in turn undermines the freedom and importance of Members of Parliament (MPs) in day-to-day legislating, making the cabinet the only organ of government where individual legislators can aspire to influence the decisions of the government.
- collyw 11y ago
  So no "representative" part in representative democracy. Might as well just call it an elected doctatorship, as thats what its closer to.
  - hga 11y ago
    Yes it is. For the duration of the party or collation's control, said ruling majority has complete legislative and executive power, unless it screws up so much that it loses a vote of confidence. If the system doesn't have a strong constitution, like the U.K. ... well, in US terms, imagine the current majority completely changing the way Senators are selected, and replacing the Supreme Court with a different institution. Tony Blair's New Labour did the former with the House of Lords, don't remember who changed them from being the U.K.'s highest court. It is indeed an elected dictatorship, and something we in the US very explicitly rejected. And for some inexplicable reason, in both the U.K. and Australia, the governments (this is generally any of them as far as I know) have all but completely disarmed the people, eliminating as much as they can that ultimate form of feedback; strange, that. (It's not true of Canada, and to a lessor extent New Zealand.)

PebblesHD 11y ago

At least your representatives even responded. Mine not only ignored a host of physical letters and emails but then refused even a ten minute meeting to explain their point of view on the issue. Whats the point of an elected official if they don't intend to deal with their electorate? Add to that the current government's behaviour on other social issues and its starting to look like they really miss the 1950s or the cold war when their security apparatus actually had a purpose.