5 ms·

Jet Lag ‘Cures’ Aplenty, but None That Work for All

21 points by kareemm 11y ago

malthaus 11y ago
Xanax. It's a miracle drug at least for me. Just be cautious and don't take it when you have addictive tendencies and best to discuss with a doctor of course. I also don't drink when i take them. I usually fly long-distance over night and time it to sleep 2x4h in the destination-timezone during the flight with a drink/walking break inbetween.
jballanc 11y ago
Food is the key. People forget this so easily, but for most of our evolution we did not have access to "3-squares a day". Hunger is a remarkable tool for manipulating alertness and wakefulness. The most common recommendation I've heard for jet lag is to stop eating 12 hours before breakfast in your destination's time zone. I've found this strategy works for more than just jet lag though. If I'm up against a deadline and need to put in a couple extra hours or pull an all-nighter, I'll skip two or three meals. For the first 30-60 min after "normal" meal time you have to deal with the hunger pangs, but then your body will switch into hunter-gatherer mode and you'd be surprised how long you can maintain alertness. Obviously this isn't a tool you can use frequently (and it's vital to remain hydrated, especially if you're accustomed to drinking when you eat), but in a pinch it's surprisingly effective.
- dimitar 11y ago
  I do this frequently and it really works - I started to do it when I was working night shifts. For me it is 14 hours before breakfast, thought. Most people can do just fine having a very early dinner I don't know why this method is only rarely mentioned or not mentioned at all. I remember commenting on a similar article that boldly claimed that there is "no cure" or "no cure until now". Edit, here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9850557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9850557 Here is one useful BBC link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7414437.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7414437.stm
- javert 11y ago
  > stop eating 12 hours before breakfast in your destination's time zone > If I'm up against a deadline and need to put in a couple extra hours or pull an all-nighter, I'll skip two or three meals. What is the underlying model to you that unifies these two cases? I can't tell whether you're saying (a) your body learns to become alert when food is going to become available, and to sleep otherwise, or (b) If you starve yourself, you get really alert for a while, which also enentually tires you out, helping you to go to sleep after that. Or possibly something else.
  - modoc 11y ago
    I believe what he's saying is that when your body is hungry, it will stay awake/alert longer (in order to hunt/gather food so you don't starve). I've noticed the same thing for myself.
  - frivoal 11y ago
    It's (a). If you get substantial food while you were starving, your body will guess that this time of the day is a good one to be awake at, in case the food source is available every day at the same time. So a solid breakfast after a short period of fast resets the internal clock.
- RALaBarge 11y ago
  I too find that this helps when on long car rides as well. I only drink water, and maybe have an apple after a while, but I feel like when I am hungry, I am more sharp and alert - something very handy for moving 2.5k lbs @ 75 MPH
- Osmium 11y ago
  > Food is the key. Agreed with this. I don't find it necessary to skip meals though, I just ensure I get a good, solid breakfast at the appropriate time at my destination (I also change my watch to the destination time early too, I find it helps psychologically). I can't imagine skipping meals during a long journey which is already stressful enough as-is.
- james4k 11y ago
  Hmm. I used to skip breakfast years ago. I woke and went straight from my bed to my desk in order to work, and remember being quite productive. Perhaps skipping breakfast was the vital part of that routine. That said, my sleep schedule at the time was all over the place.
- itchyouch 11y ago
  Definitely agree that this is a useful tool. TLDR - Food & Exercise choices affect wakefulness and neurological stamina & performance. I'm not an expert by any means, but have done some research on it for various health reasons and would go deeper into it for those on HackerNews who tend to see food hacking as a pointless endeavor where the simplified modal of energy/wakefulness = calories. When we think of bodily energy, we think of calories as fuel. Yet after certain meals such as Thanksgiving dinner, or a "heavy" lunch, fatigue tends to set in. If we refocus and consider energy consumption as feeding the cellular mitochondria and assisting cellular ATP transport from the mitochondria, then all of a sudden, it becomes obvious that calories as fuel is somewhat of an inadequate model for optimizing biological chemistry. It's intuitively obvious that substances like caffiene, modafinil, amphetamine salts provide a neurological boost by affecting various neurotransmitters & neurons. The question then becomes what do I need to do to achieve the following: optimize neural stamina via neurotransmitters & bodily ATP generation & consumption? * Increase ATP Stores/Mitochondrial Size (Available mechanical energy) * Increase ATP Usage (Usage of said energy) * Optimize availability of wakefulness enhancing neurotransmitters In a nutshell, supporting the aforementioned biological chemistry becomes what is important. The trouble with ATP is that it's like the L1 cache of processor memory. There is a relatively small amount of ATP available for use, and when exercising, ATP is used up within several seconds and muscle glycogen is then converted into ATP. Muscle glycogen (stored away sugar) is kind of like a processors L2 & L3 Cache. The liver also stores some glycogen and is like main memory. Food & fatty acid breakdown is like a harddrive (if we are treating data retrieval like energy availability). It becomes obvious that for optimizing energy (ATP) consumption supporting the citric-acid cycle is more important than pure glucose & fatty acid consumption. Most people have 15+% bodyfat. That's 15lbs of bodyfat per 100lbs of body weight. 5-6lbs of that is essential for hormone production and such, so that leaves around 10 lbs (35,000 calories) of potential energy available for a hypothetical 100lb person. Most of us reading this are probably somewhere around 130-200+ lbs @ ~20%. For the hypothetical 100 lb person with 15% body fat, burning 1800 cals per day, that's enough energy to last for about 20 days without eating and very little physical activity. Of course it's recommended to not stop eating for people looking to diet via starvation as the eventual consumption of all potassium would lead to heart failure. But there is a story of an obese guy who starved for a year or so and survived on yeast & potassium supplements under medical supervision. As far as increasing our ability to store away glycogen, glycogen is stored in muscles and in the liver. Increasing muscles increases our ability to store away glycogen. With weightlifting, the MAX & fastest rates general man can add around 1-2lbs of muscle per month and female can add .5-1 lb of muscle per month for about 1 year for an untrained body. Every year after that, the rates falls about half. A general male/female can add about 50/25 lbs of muscle in their lifetime. Yes, lifetime. For a male, Add 10-20lbs the first year. Add another 5-10 the next year. Add another 2-5 the year afterwards. It tends to be a good idea to maximize muscle production between the ages of 15-30 as the body is growing and generating human growth hormone to stimulate muscle growth. After 30-35, the body stops overproducing and it tends to be about maintenance and steady losses as the body cannibalizes muscle protein with age. Now that L2/L3 is optimized with extra muscle & hopefully larger and more mitochondria per cell, it becomes important to optimize Main Memory (Liver) & Harddrive (fatty acid breakdown) optimization abilities. These all function on biological chemistry, thus the limiting chemical reagent is the most important factor to support. limiting-chemical-reagent meaning obtaining nutrient dense foods. Adding glucose to the diet without the ability to process said glucose is a recipe for fatigue. The citric acid cycle pretty much runs on having enough amino-acids (aka protein), oxygen, and supporting minerals & chemicals (magnesium, potassium, vitamins [ABCD...], etc). The simplest optimization of nutritional intake I've seen is with the Wahl's Protocol developed by Terry Wahls. She has a TED talk explaining her recovery/maintenance from Secondary Progress Multiple Sclerosis. (http://terrywahls.com/minding-your-mitochondria-dr-terry-wahls-at-tedxiowacity/ http://terrywahls.com/minding-your-mitochondria-dr-terry-wah...)
joezydeco 11y ago
The only thing that has ever worked for me is to get on the destination's clock as soon as possible. The problem as I see it are airline crews that insist, no wait they demand, that the cabin stay dark through the entire overnight flight. That denies your body the visual response of sunrise and then the crew abruptly turns on all the lights full-blast 60 minutes before landing, where it's now nearly noon at the destination. That insistance that you try to cram in a solid 8 hours sleep is what messes people up. When going east, stay up as long as you can, take a shower then a nap in the mid-afternoon, then stay up as late as you can make it that evening without overdoing caffeine or drugs. I'm 80% normal the next day and 100% fine after that. One day per timezone to acclimate? That's insane if people really are hit that hard.
tsotha 11y ago
I guess I do it the brute force way. When I get to my destination I force myself to stay up until bed time in that time zone, and then get up after eight hours. I'm out of sorts for a day and that's it.
- emodendroket 11y ago
  How far afield have you gone? I can't imagine that cutting it for an Asia-US trip.
  - Espressosaurus 11y ago
    It works--ish for Asia->US and back. I still find myself waking up around 3am local every so often for the next week or so however. And 3pm I need to get up and walk around for about 15 minutes or I find myself drifting off.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    Europe and the Far East from the US. Not very often, though.
reacweb 11y ago
Since 2007 ig nobel, I thought it was a solved problem: http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070521/full/news070521-1.html http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070521/full/news070521-1.htm... ;-)
zigggi 11y ago
Anyone know the science behind this; https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ayo-light-based-energy-boosting-wearable/x/1802366#/story https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ayo-light-based-energy-bo... "On each trip, Ayo customizes your Ayo-wearing schedule, telling you when to wear the glasses to best adjust your internal body clock to your the new time zone."
- coldtea 11y ago
  Not into detail, but sounds obviously trying to make the migration from one timezone to another smoother, by varying the amount of light you get during the day (from what you would get from one point in Earth to what you get in the other place). That, and sleep scedule, which is closely related, is what causes the jet lag.
mikehollinger 11y ago
I used to live in Asia, and travel back to the US quarterly. Of course, now I live in the US and travel back to Asia quarterly. ;-) What I've found that works for me is to "throw off" my sleep schedule the night before a trip; I sleep for 3-4 hours (usually catching an 8AM flight), then while on the trans-pacific leg, I sleep / eat / read / game every couple of hours. Whenever I "switch" to a new part of the rotation, I get up for a walk around the cabin. I end up getting a few hours of sleep in power naps, watching a couple of movies or reading a decent chunk of a book, or taking care of some work. When I land, I go find a source of caffeine, and then fall back into the "regular" meal schedule for wherever. Dinner at 7 or 8-ish, and I make sure to eat an actual breakfast. Finally, I take melatonin for one or two nights, and then try to sleep naturally.
bhc3 11y ago
I've flown to Germany from San Francisco several times. Nine time zones away. The flight leaves early afternoon in SF, and I'm in Germany by late morning. The travel included a 40 minute train ride from Frankfurt. I sleep very little on flights, and I'm exhausted on that train ride. I used to try the "stay awake until night" method once I was in Germany. It wasn't very effective, I didn't adjust for several days. I then tried something different. As soon as I get to my hotel (around lunchtime), I take a nap of 3 hours or so. I don't let myself sleep beyond that. I then get up and do some activities. I have dinner at the regular local time and then go to sleep at the usual time in the evening. I've found that I rapidly adjust to the local time and have very little jet lag thereafter. It's that initial nap upon arrival that makes the difference.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  That has worked for me as well (when going east). Getting up from that nap is brutally hard, though...
- anarazel 11y ago
  There's now flights from SFO that leave to Frankfurt around 9pm local time - for me that already made a big difference. It allows me to at least sleep 2-3 hours instead of the usual 30 minutes in 5 minute chunks. > As soon as I get to my hotel (around lunchtime), I take a nap of 3 hours or so. I don't let myself sleep beyond that. I then get up and do some activities. I have dinner at the regular local time and then go to sleep at the usual time in the evening. Yea, I found that to be much better as well. It additionaly seems to help tremendously to do an hour or two of sport after that nap. I feel being physically exhausted helps to get adjusted much quicker, because I sleep much deeper the following night. It's awfully hard to convince yourself to start tho. EDIT: language

21 points by kareemm 11y ago

Xanax. It's a miracle drug at least for me. Just be cautious and don't take it when you have addictive tendencies and best to discuss with a doctor of course. I also don't drink when i take them. I usually fly long-distance over night and time it to sleep 2x4h in the destination-timezone during the flight with a drink/walking break inbetween.

jballanc 11y ago

Food is the key. People forget this so easily, but for most of our evolution we did not have access to "3-squares a day". Hunger is a remarkable tool for manipulating alertness and wakefulness. The most common recommendation I've heard for jet lag is to stop eating 12 hours before breakfast in your destination's time zone. I've found this strategy works for more than just jet lag though. If I'm up against a deadline and need to put in a couple extra hours or pull an all-nighter, I'll skip two or three meals. For the first 30-60 min after "normal" meal time you have to deal with the hunger pangs, but then your body will switch into hunter-gatherer mode and you'd be surprised how long you can maintain alertness. Obviously this isn't a tool you can use frequently (and it's vital to remain hydrated, especially if you're accustomed to drinking when you eat), but in a pinch it's surprisingly effective.

dimitar 11y ago
I do this frequently and it really works - I started to do it when I was working night shifts. For me it is 14 hours before breakfast, thought. Most people can do just fine having a very early dinner I don't know why this method is only rarely mentioned or not mentioned at all. I remember commenting on a similar article that boldly claimed that there is "no cure" or "no cure until now". Edit, here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9850557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9850557 Here is one useful BBC link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7414437.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7414437.stm
javert 11y ago
> stop eating 12 hours before breakfast in your destination's time zone > If I'm up against a deadline and need to put in a couple extra hours or pull an all-nighter, I'll skip two or three meals. What is the underlying model to you that unifies these two cases? I can't tell whether you're saying (a) your body learns to become alert when food is going to become available, and to sleep otherwise, or (b) If you starve yourself, you get really alert for a while, which also enentually tires you out, helping you to go to sleep after that. Or possibly something else.
- modoc 11y ago
  I believe what he's saying is that when your body is hungry, it will stay awake/alert longer (in order to hunt/gather food so you don't starve). I've noticed the same thing for myself.
- frivoal 11y ago
  It's (a). If you get substantial food while you were starving, your body will guess that this time of the day is a good one to be awake at, in case the food source is available every day at the same time. So a solid breakfast after a short period of fast resets the internal clock.
RALaBarge 11y ago
I too find that this helps when on long car rides as well. I only drink water, and maybe have an apple after a while, but I feel like when I am hungry, I am more sharp and alert - something very handy for moving 2.5k lbs @ 75 MPH
Osmium 11y ago
> Food is the key. Agreed with this. I don't find it necessary to skip meals though, I just ensure I get a good, solid breakfast at the appropriate time at my destination (I also change my watch to the destination time early too, I find it helps psychologically). I can't imagine skipping meals during a long journey which is already stressful enough as-is.
james4k 11y ago
Hmm. I used to skip breakfast years ago. I woke and went straight from my bed to my desk in order to work, and remember being quite productive. Perhaps skipping breakfast was the vital part of that routine. That said, my sleep schedule at the time was all over the place.
itchyouch 11y ago
Definitely agree that this is a useful tool. TLDR - Food & Exercise choices affect wakefulness and neurological stamina & performance. I'm not an expert by any means, but have done some research on it for various health reasons and would go deeper into it for those on HackerNews who tend to see food hacking as a pointless endeavor where the simplified modal of energy/wakefulness = calories. When we think of bodily energy, we think of calories as fuel. Yet after certain meals such as Thanksgiving dinner, or a "heavy" lunch, fatigue tends to set in. If we refocus and consider energy consumption as feeding the cellular mitochondria and assisting cellular ATP transport from the mitochondria, then all of a sudden, it becomes obvious that calories as fuel is somewhat of an inadequate model for optimizing biological chemistry. It's intuitively obvious that substances like caffiene, modafinil, amphetamine salts provide a neurological boost by affecting various neurotransmitters & neurons. The question then becomes what do I need to do to achieve the following: optimize neural stamina via neurotransmitters & bodily ATP generation & consumption? * Increase ATP Stores/Mitochondrial Size (Available mechanical energy) * Increase ATP Usage (Usage of said energy) * Optimize availability of wakefulness enhancing neurotransmitters In a nutshell, supporting the aforementioned biological chemistry becomes what is important. The trouble with ATP is that it's like the L1 cache of processor memory. There is a relatively small amount of ATP available for use, and when exercising, ATP is used up within several seconds and muscle glycogen is then converted into ATP. Muscle glycogen (stored away sugar) is kind of like a processors L2 & L3 Cache. The liver also stores some glycogen and is like main memory. Food & fatty acid breakdown is like a harddrive (if we are treating data retrieval like energy availability). It becomes obvious that for optimizing energy (ATP) consumption supporting the citric-acid cycle is more important than pure glucose & fatty acid consumption. Most people have 15+% bodyfat. That's 15lbs of bodyfat per 100lbs of body weight. 5-6lbs of that is essential for hormone production and such, so that leaves around 10 lbs (35,000 calories) of potential energy available for a hypothetical 100lb person. Most of us reading this are probably somewhere around 130-200+ lbs @ ~20%. For the hypothetical 100 lb person with 15% body fat, burning 1800 cals per day, that's enough energy to last for about 20 days without eating and very little physical activity. Of course it's recommended to not stop eating for people looking to diet via starvation as the eventual consumption of all potassium would lead to heart failure. But there is a story of an obese guy who starved for a year or so and survived on yeast & potassium supplements under medical supervision. As far as increasing our ability to store away glycogen, glycogen is stored in muscles and in the liver. Increasing muscles increases our ability to store away glycogen. With weightlifting, the MAX & fastest rates general man can add around 1-2lbs of muscle per month and female can add .5-1 lb of muscle per month for about 1 year for an untrained body. Every year after that, the rates falls about half. A general male/female can add about 50/25 lbs of muscle in their lifetime. Yes, lifetime. For a male, Add 10-20lbs the first year. Add another 5-10 the next year. Add another 2-5 the year afterwards. It tends to be a good idea to maximize muscle production between the ages of 15-30 as the body is growing and generating human growth hormone to stimulate muscle growth. After 30-35, the body stops overproducing and it tends to be about maintenance and steady losses as the body cannibalizes muscle protein with age. Now that L2/L3 is optimized with extra muscle & hopefully larger and more mitochondria per cell, it becomes important to optimize Main Memory (Liver) & Harddrive (fatty acid breakdown) optimization abilities. These all function on biological chemistry, thus the limiting chemical reagent is the most important factor to support. limiting-chemical-reagent meaning obtaining nutrient dense foods. Adding glucose to the diet without the ability to process said glucose is a recipe for fatigue. The citric acid cycle pretty much runs on having enough amino-acids (aka protein), oxygen, and supporting minerals & chemicals (magnesium, potassium, vitamins [ABCD...], etc). The simplest optimization of nutritional intake I've seen is with the Wahl's Protocol developed by Terry Wahls. She has a TED talk explaining her recovery/maintenance from Secondary Progress Multiple Sclerosis. (http://terrywahls.com/minding-your-mitochondria-dr-terry-wahls-at-tedxiowacity/ http://terrywahls.com/minding-your-mitochondria-dr-terry-wah...)

joezydeco 11y ago

The only thing that has ever worked for me is to get on the destination's clock as soon as possible. The problem as I see it are airline crews that insist, no wait they demand, that the cabin stay dark through the entire overnight flight. That denies your body the visual response of sunrise and then the crew abruptly turns on all the lights full-blast 60 minutes before landing, where it's now nearly noon at the destination. That insistance that you try to cram in a solid 8 hours sleep is what messes people up. When going east, stay up as long as you can, take a shower then a nap in the mid-afternoon, then stay up as late as you can make it that evening without overdoing caffeine or drugs. I'm 80% normal the next day and 100% fine after that. One day per timezone to acclimate? That's insane if people really are hit that hard.

tsotha 11y ago

I guess I do it the brute force way. When I get to my destination I force myself to stay up until bed time in that time zone, and then get up after eight hours. I'm out of sorts for a day and that's it.

emodendroket 11y ago
How far afield have you gone? I can't imagine that cutting it for an Asia-US trip.
- Espressosaurus 11y ago
  It works--ish for Asia->US and back. I still find myself waking up around 3am local every so often for the next week or so however. And 3pm I need to get up and walk around for about 15 minutes or I find myself drifting off.
- tsotha 11y ago
  Europe and the Far East from the US. Not very often, though.

reacweb 11y ago

Since 2007 ig nobel, I thought it was a solved problem: http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070521/full/news070521-1.html http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070521/full/news070521-1.htm... ;-)

zigggi 11y ago

Anyone know the science behind this; https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ayo-light-based-energy-boosting-wearable/x/1802366#/story https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ayo-light-based-energy-bo... "On each trip, Ayo customizes your Ayo-wearing schedule, telling you when to wear the glasses to best adjust your internal body clock to your the new time zone."

coldtea 11y ago
Not into detail, but sounds obviously trying to make the migration from one timezone to another smoother, by varying the amount of light you get during the day (from what you would get from one point in Earth to what you get in the other place). That, and sleep scedule, which is closely related, is what causes the jet lag.

mikehollinger 11y ago

I used to live in Asia, and travel back to the US quarterly. Of course, now I live in the US and travel back to Asia quarterly. ;-) What I've found that works for me is to "throw off" my sleep schedule the night before a trip; I sleep for 3-4 hours (usually catching an 8AM flight), then while on the trans-pacific leg, I sleep / eat / read / game every couple of hours. Whenever I "switch" to a new part of the rotation, I get up for a walk around the cabin. I end up getting a few hours of sleep in power naps, watching a couple of movies or reading a decent chunk of a book, or taking care of some work. When I land, I go find a source of caffeine, and then fall back into the "regular" meal schedule for wherever. Dinner at 7 or 8-ish, and I make sure to eat an actual breakfast. Finally, I take melatonin for one or two nights, and then try to sleep naturally.

bhc3 11y ago

I've flown to Germany from San Francisco several times. Nine time zones away. The flight leaves early afternoon in SF, and I'm in Germany by late morning. The travel included a 40 minute train ride from Frankfurt. I sleep very little on flights, and I'm exhausted on that train ride. I used to try the "stay awake until night" method once I was in Germany. It wasn't very effective, I didn't adjust for several days. I then tried something different. As soon as I get to my hotel (around lunchtime), I take a nap of 3 hours or so. I don't let myself sleep beyond that. I then get up and do some activities. I have dinner at the regular local time and then go to sleep at the usual time in the evening. I've found that I rapidly adjust to the local time and have very little jet lag thereafter. It's that initial nap upon arrival that makes the difference.

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
That has worked for me as well (when going east). Getting up from that nap is brutally hard, though...
anarazel 11y ago
There's now flights from SFO that leave to Frankfurt around 9pm local time - for me that already made a big difference. It allows me to at least sleep 2-3 hours instead of the usual 30 minutes in 5 minute chunks. > As soon as I get to my hotel (around lunchtime), I take a nap of 3 hours or so. I don't let myself sleep beyond that. I then get up and do some activities. I have dinner at the regular local time and then go to sleep at the usual time in the evening. Yea, I found that to be much better as well. It additionaly seems to help tremendously to do an hour or two of sport after that nap. I feel being physically exhausted helps to get adjusted much quicker, because I sleep much deeper the following night. It's awfully hard to convince yourself to start tho. EDIT: language