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Tesla’s Model S P85D Scores 103 Out of 100 on Consumer Reports’ Ratings System

215 points by chriskanan 11y ago

thecolorblue 11y ago
Did consumer reports review a Model S 70D? I would think that would be a more practical car for consumer reports to review.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > I would think that would be a more practical car for consumer reports to review. Why?
- jusben1369 11y ago
  I guess. I mean they're both incredibly small niche vehicle volumes that it seems a bit strange to split hairs on which model.
  - ryanmonroe 11y ago
    Well the P85D costs $30k (over 50%) more so for your average wealthy person the P70D looks much more reasonable.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Don't forget that they now offer a plain 70 in rear wheel drive configuration, which knocks off another $5,000. Teslas aren't cheap by any means, but there are a lot of people who could afford something in the 70-85D range but not a P85D. On the other hand, the only real difference between a P85D and an 85D is acceleration, so I don't think there's much need to do a separate review just for the lower-end cars.
    - eclipxe 11y ago
      There is no P70D. Just a 70D
- johnward 11y ago
  Does Tesla produce stats on which trim level sells the most? My guess for the "budget conscience" people would be regular Model S 85.
dragontamer 11y ago
That is frankly ridiculous. Tesla's previous car getting 99/100 (which never happened before) wasn't enough, so now they push 103/100? I understand that its a great car, but if the consumer report scale is out of 100, then it should stay out of 100. Pushing their scale beyond the boundary causes a "Spinal tap" situation and I fail to take the review seriously anymore. It goes up to 11 belongs in comedy movies, not serious reviews.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  "They have an interesting rating system. It ends up representing the fact that all this performance and fuel efficiency comes out of a car that can seat 7 people. The variant that does 0-60 quicker and gives you AWD gives you better energy consumption. Things like these are what blew up their scale." https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3il269/tesla_model_s_p85d_breaks_the_consumer_reports/cuhdf7p https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3il269/tesla_m... "They discus the report in this video. It's sort of like a podcast in format, for those to whom it may matter" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxUQhcvXh8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxUQhcvXh8g
- bastijn 11y ago
  Exactly my thought when reading the article. They even state that it can't go past it "by definition". Well, apparently it did. I can only imagine marketing and sales departments being involved as I cannot imagine a person who did the math part agreeing his scale could be extended to 103. This is a big red flag for me to not take this review, and the other reviews of tesla mobiles seriously. Some happy greenwheels is upping the ratings I guess. It is like browsing imdb for movies which score 8/10 or up and finding a movie which scores 10/10 with 5 reviews... Oh, and 1 for your spinal tap reference.
- darkerside 11y ago
  Blame TechCrunch for the blogspammy headline. The original Consumer Reports review states clearly that it scored a 103 based on their existing framework, which they adjusted in lieu of that fact. | In rating it, however, we faced a quandary: The Tesla initially scored 103 in the Consumer Reports' Ratings system, which by definition doesn’t go past 100. The car set a new benchmark, so we had to make changes to our scoring to account for it. Those changes didn’t affect the scores of other cars. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-breaks-consumer-reports-ratings-system.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-b...
3327 11y ago
what a bullshit report. I mean I like tesla but this report starts with bullshit and ends with bullshit. 103/100 ? 200 mile range?
- loceng 11y ago
  In highschool, grade 11 computer science I got 101% end of year grade; the average of the class was 100%: the person who got 99% was barely in class however completed their assignments, and I got 101% because I would quickly finish my assignments and then was happy and excited to help others if they were running into trouble. I quite wish my other classes were scored that way as well... TL;DR There's nothing wrong giving credit where credit is due.
  - jerf 11y ago
    I always wished I could take my extra credit out of one class and apply it to another. I didn't know the term in the modern gamer sense at the time, but I would have minmaxed the heck out of my school years.
  - JoblessWonder 11y ago
    I think he was just saying that it seems hard to justify anything with a 200 mile range and no access to traditional fueling stations going "over and above" 100%.
  - punee 11y ago
    /r/iamverysmart
    - loceng 11y ago
      Had nothing to do with smarts, I just had been using computers and started to teach myself programming at 11 years old.
rsync 11y ago
""They have an interesting rating system. It ends up representing the fact that all this performance and fuel efficiency comes out of a car that can seat 7 people. The variant that does 0-60 quicker and gives you AWD gives you better energy consumption. Things like these are what blew up their scale."" A few weeks ago (a month ago ?) BMW released the spec sheet / announcement for the new 7 series. And it's just sad. I'm not even sure who it is for ... people who don't use the Internet ? People who don't read news ? You've got a car that is substantially better in almost every conceivable category (it generates all wheel drive with two different motors, for instance) ... and the press release for the 7 series is going on and on about how advanced their new engine is and bragging about their (laughable, in light of the model S) 0-60 time. Basically it's 20 pages of "blah blah not electric blah blah". It's painful to look at. OBLIGATORY: Not a huge Model S fan, at least in terms of size (not really a full sized four door) and interior appointment (which is amazingly sparse and devoid of options compared to 7/A8/S) ... and further, would much prefer a 7 series or Panamera on a fully-electric platform. But we don't have that, so I guess we have to settle for "the best car we've ever tested".[1] [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas-p85d-is-the-best-car-consumer-reports-has-ever-tested.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas-p85d-is-the-best-car-c...
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  I'm going to guess that it doesn't get that performance or fuel efficiency when hauling seven people, though.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    Once a car is at cruising speed on mostly level ground, weight doesn't matter nearly as much as aerodynamics.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I assume that by "it" you mean the Model S? Keep in mind that when you have 7 people in it, at least two must be relatively small (77lbs or under) children. So the added weight isn't quite as much as it sounds. The P85D weighs just under 5,000lbs empty. Say your 7 passengers add 1,000lbs of weight, that's a 20% penalty on acceleration. Might be noticeable, but performance will still be extremely good. As for range, aerodynamic drag dominates at highway speeds, which is where you'll be spending most of your time on a trip. The efficiency hit from extra passengers will be down in the noise. You could probably recoup it by driving 2MPH slower. I haven't done a long trip with 7, but I did do a reasonably long road trip with 6 in my Model S, and the extra weight was not noticeable. You don't want to be flooring it in a powerful car with small kids most of the time anyway, and the energy use predictions were still spot on.
amalag 11y ago
So did they take affordability into account?
- dragontamer 11y ago
  They took neither affordability nor reliability into account. Details here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-breaks-consumer-reports-ratings-system.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-b...
  - matheweis 11y ago
    ... which are the two most important things that I care about. I which there was a rating system that looked at these - especially over the long term.
- juliangoldsmith 11y ago
  The Model S is meant to be compared to the BMW 7-series, which is around the same price.
linkydinkandyou 11y ago
I'm a Tesla owner (a 3 month old P85D) and it really isn't the best car for everyone. We still have a gasoline car (a Chevy Volt) because every now and then you need to take a long trip. It also has a wonky UI. The touch screen isn't perfect and a few dedicated knobs and buttons on the dash service would go a long way. And it's way too expensive to be the "perfect" car. It's an interesting gadget for geeks (like me!) with enough income to buy one without thinking about it. The fit and finish of other $100,000 cars exceeds that of the Tesla. (We also have solar on the house so we're not burning coal in some poor person's neighborhood to run it.)
dmix 11y ago
This is offtopic but the video of peoples reaction using the 'insane' button in the Model S P85D was some really great marketing for Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaLgF1uLB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaLgF1uLB8 The feature is a novelty but it makes for great social media bait. I never share links about cars with family/friends but I felt compelled to this time. It's entertaining because the car is completely silent while it pins them back in the seat - and people are having very honest reactions to the experience.
- adam12 11y ago
  > great marketing for Tesla Yeah, until someone dies from this sort of reckless driving.
  - johnnyg 11y ago
    I don't think Telsa providing a given feature set makes them responsible for the misuse of it.
    - adam12 11y ago
      Of course it doesn't make them responsible. I just don't think someone should be driving like that unless they are on a test track.
      - beachstartup 11y ago
        i punch it at full throttle to 65mph every time i use an on-ramp. i bought a performance car to use it as advertised. perfectly legal, and appropriate, when traffic permits. in fact, if you don't, you're probably a shitty driver and need to learn how to merge. when you're merging into a river of steel doing 80mph and you're doing 45 because you're watching the consumption meter on your hybrid, you're an asshole.
        killface 11y ago
        you must live in the bay area...
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
How can you exceed your max value? This has always bothered me, its pretty much admitting "We kinda pull numbers out of our butts." When I see this in other media, like movies or games, it seems to be a direct response to hype or personal politics. Maybe CR is overly green and wants to promote EV's? Reminds me of when Obama got a Nobel Peace prize for things he will do in the future. Also, the Simpsons did it first: Tralawney: Listen, we've been meaning to have a talk with you about your reviews. Everything's a rave! Nine thumbs up, what the hell is that? Homer: I've given out my share of bad reviews Beaumont: Oh, the only bad review you gave was to a slice of pizza you found under the couch. Homer: It lost some points because it had a Hot Wheel on it.
- mikeash 11y ago
  I think people are making too big of a deal about scoring greater than the "maximum." It's pretty clear that they came up with some arbitrary scoring system where each aspect of the car gets some number of points. There's nothing wrong with that, any rating is going to be arbitrary to some degree. They then arranged the scales such that whatever they saw as a good car would come close to 100, because 100 seems like a nice number. Then they test a car with a combination of attributes they never expected, and it exceeds 100. 100 isn't the actual maximum, it's just what they thought would be the top score from their system. Turns out that if you throw a car at their system that is extremely efficient and powerful and seats lots of people, the numbers go higher.
  - SilasX 11y ago
    Similar issue with the "Coefficient of Performance" in heating and cooling[1], which is the ratio of "energy extracted" to "energy consumed". Since you're just moving energy around, this value can easily be greater than 100% -- no violation of the laws of thermodynamics! 100% is just as arbitrary a value on this scale. . However, there's still always a relevant maximum that you should measure relative to, and refrigerators have a theoretical maximum. The maximum ("Carnot") efficiency is the ratio of the higher (absolute) temperature to the temperature difference. For room temperature to freezing, that would be ~300/27 = 11.1 = 1100%. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance
chabby 11y ago
Just my 2 cents: I've driven both a P85D and a 2014 Porsche 911 4S cabriolet fairly extensively. Guess which one I decided to buy? The Porsche. These might not be two cars that are commonly cross-shopped, and the Tesla does beat the Porsche to 60 mph. Still, the Porsche was clearly the winner in just about every other way in my estimation. Anyone else have a similar experience?
- tajen 11y ago
  > in just about every other way I might not be able to buy a Porsche any time soon, but which ways are you suggesting?
- Gracana 11y ago
  > the Tesla does beat the Porsche to 60 mph I wonder if it would do it 60 times in a row. http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2014/see-how-good-porsche-launch-control-is/ http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2014/see-how-good-porsche-laun...
  - ajtaylor 11y ago
    The sound of the engine made me drool. And being able to do it hands off... that's some damn fine engineering and software!
- toephu2 11y ago
  Not sure how the Porsche was the winner in every way? Going from point A->B (work commute), is your foot hard on the pedal every day? Can you even have your foot all the way down (traffic)? Tesla wins by far in terms of energy-efficiency, luxury, capacity, and just overall being more useful than the Porsche (and still being fun to drive). The only minus is the price tag. But Porsches aren't cheap either. But yeah I understand, any true racing enthusiast would probably choose a Porsche over a Tesla.
  - redthrowaway 11y ago
    >Tesla wins by far in terms of...luxury Except it doesn't. One of the biggest complaints about the Model S is that its interior belongs in a specced-up Accord, not an S-class competitor.
tw04 11y ago
I get that the Tesla is awesome, but it seems pretty frigging ridiculous that to give a car 103 out of 100 when it only has a range of 200 miles.
- sahaskatta 11y ago
  How ridiculous would it be for a car company to give you a lifetime unlimited supply of gasoline along with the purchase of your car? Absolutely ridiculous. Guess what? That's exactly what Tesla does. http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger Unlike gas cars, you start off with 200 miles of range EVERY MORNING since you charge overnight. Most Americans also only drive an average of 40 miles a day. And for those long trips, you have Superchargers.
  - reasonishy 11y ago
    They recently told people to stop using the supercharger so much. I'm doubtful it's a viable business model long term.
  - tw04 11y ago
    How ridiculous would it be for a car company to give you a lifetime unlimited supply of gasoline - but you have to wait in line 30 minutes for it every time. And oh by the way, it's an hour from your house, and you'll use a third of a tank getting there and back. And there's only like 200 stations total worldwide. So... awesome, right? Oh, and we built the cost of those stations into the car, so it's not REALLY free. yawn
    - giarc 11y ago
      I can't comment on some things (like the line ups at super charger stations) but other things I can. You say "it's an hour from your house", if you are at your house, why wouldn't you just charge at your house? 200 supercharger stations worldwide, but that's not counting electric vehicle charging stations, plus the station in your driveway. All gas stations are further away than the tesla station in the garage. Yes, the cost of the vehicle includes the cost of building supercharger stations, but then again, the cost of gas includes the cost of building stations too, so maybe a bad comparison. I see where you are going with your arguments, however they don't all apply. I think the most valid thing you said is perhaps the line ups, but again I can't comment on that, not to mention gas stations have line ups... so there's that.
buckbova 11y ago
Does this Tesla S still overheat on a lap of Nürburgring?
- toephu2 11y ago
  yes probably, but how often are you taking your family sedan for a lap around the Nürburgring?
mschuster91 11y ago
What I'd really like to see, and Tesla is already beginning to do it, is modular, upgrade-able cars. Like, a new engine, better in-car entertainment, better sound system, seat-heating, cruise control, distance control, semi/full automatic driving... if I could e.g. buy a stripped down Tesla as a student which I can then (given, of course, I don't crash it) upgrade over its lifetime as I put some money aside, instead of having to buy an entirely new car when the old one is still perfectly functioning.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  This is actually a clever marketing trick by Elon Musk. You cannot upgrade a Roadster, and you cannot upgrade the P70 models either. Tesla has been pretty unclear about their modularity and upgrades. Be careful when reading marketing material: these marketing slides open your imagination but aren't necessarily filled with the truth. They've kept things vague to help stir our imaginations... but don't go dropping $70,000 on vague promises. When Tesla starts actually making modular cars, we'll know the details. Until then, treat these promises as marketing and/or vaporware. I'm sure Elon Musk is going to push his company to actually deliver on his promises, but sometimes engineers can only do so much.
  - greglindahl 11y ago
    Actually, Tesla does plan on shipping an upgrade to existing Roadsters. It'll be expensive and probably later than claimed, but there you have it: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-30 http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-30 http://gas2.org/2015/05/05/340-mile-tesla-roadster-upgrade-due-out-in-august/ http://gas2.org/2015/05/05/340-mile-tesla-roadster-upgrade-d... I agree with your comment that it's easy to fantasize about upgrades that will never happen. Early Model S cars lack the hardware for driving assistance, and my friends who think they know about such things predict that additional computer power will be needed to achieve all that Elon is predicting for self-driving. A better battery pack for all Model S cars, on the other hand, is likely to eventually show up. All existing cars can be upgraded to the 90 KWh battery, but Tesla is suggesting that everyone is better off waiting for a more significant upgrade later in your battery's life.
lloydde 11y ago
Looks like all the news has overloaded consumerreports.org. And I need a new clothing dryer! http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/consumerreports.org.html http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/consumerreports.org.html

215 points by chriskanan 11y ago

Did consumer reports review a Model S 70D? I would think that would be a more practical car for consumer reports to review.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
> I would think that would be a more practical car for consumer reports to review. Why?
jusben1369 11y ago
I guess. I mean they're both incredibly small niche vehicle volumes that it seems a bit strange to split hairs on which model.
- ryanmonroe 11y ago
  Well the P85D costs $30k (over 50%) more so for your average wealthy person the P70D looks much more reasonable.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Don't forget that they now offer a plain 70 in rear wheel drive configuration, which knocks off another $5,000. Teslas aren't cheap by any means, but there are a lot of people who could afford something in the 70-85D range but not a P85D. On the other hand, the only real difference between a P85D and an 85D is acceleration, so I don't think there's much need to do a separate review just for the lower-end cars.
  - eclipxe 11y ago
    There is no P70D. Just a 70D
johnward 11y ago
Does Tesla produce stats on which trim level sells the most? My guess for the "budget conscience" people would be regular Model S 85.

dragontamer 11y ago

That is frankly ridiculous. Tesla's previous car getting 99/100 (which never happened before) wasn't enough, so now they push 103/100? I understand that its a great car, but if the consumer report scale is out of 100, then it should stay out of 100. Pushing their scale beyond the boundary causes a "Spinal tap" situation and I fail to take the review seriously anymore. It goes up to 11 belongs in comedy movies, not serious reviews.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 11y ago
"They have an interesting rating system. It ends up representing the fact that all this performance and fuel efficiency comes out of a car that can seat 7 people. The variant that does 0-60 quicker and gives you AWD gives you better energy consumption. Things like these are what blew up their scale." https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3il269/tesla_model_s_p85d_breaks_the_consumer_reports/cuhdf7p https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3il269/tesla_m... "They discus the report in this video. It's sort of like a podcast in format, for those to whom it may matter" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxUQhcvXh8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxUQhcvXh8g
bastijn 11y ago
Exactly my thought when reading the article. They even state that it can't go past it "by definition". Well, apparently it did. I can only imagine marketing and sales departments being involved as I cannot imagine a person who did the math part agreeing his scale could be extended to 103. This is a big red flag for me to not take this review, and the other reviews of tesla mobiles seriously. Some happy greenwheels is upping the ratings I guess. It is like browsing imdb for movies which score 8/10 or up and finding a movie which scores 10/10 with 5 reviews... Oh, and 1 for your spinal tap reference.
darkerside 11y ago
Blame TechCrunch for the blogspammy headline. The original Consumer Reports review states clearly that it scored a 103 based on their existing framework, which they adjusted in lieu of that fact. | In rating it, however, we faced a quandary: The Tesla initially scored 103 in the Consumer Reports' Ratings system, which by definition doesn’t go past 100. The car set a new benchmark, so we had to make changes to our scoring to account for it. Those changes didn’t affect the scores of other cars. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-breaks-consumer-reports-ratings-system.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-b...

3327 11y ago

what a bullshit report. I mean I like tesla but this report starts with bullshit and ends with bullshit. 103/100 ? 200 mile range?

loceng 11y ago
In highschool, grade 11 computer science I got 101% end of year grade; the average of the class was 100%: the person who got 99% was barely in class however completed their assignments, and I got 101% because I would quickly finish my assignments and then was happy and excited to help others if they were running into trouble. I quite wish my other classes were scored that way as well... TL;DR There's nothing wrong giving credit where credit is due.
- jerf 11y ago
  I always wished I could take my extra credit out of one class and apply it to another. I didn't know the term in the modern gamer sense at the time, but I would have minmaxed the heck out of my school years.
- JoblessWonder 11y ago
  I think he was just saying that it seems hard to justify anything with a 200 mile range and no access to traditional fueling stations going "over and above" 100%.
- punee 11y ago
  /r/iamverysmart
  - loceng 11y ago
    Had nothing to do with smarts, I just had been using computers and started to teach myself programming at 11 years old.

rsync 11y ago

""They have an interesting rating system. It ends up representing the fact that all this performance and fuel efficiency comes out of a car that can seat 7 people. The variant that does 0-60 quicker and gives you AWD gives you better energy consumption. Things like these are what blew up their scale."" A few weeks ago (a month ago ?) BMW released the spec sheet / announcement for the new 7 series. And it's just sad. I'm not even sure who it is for ... people who don't use the Internet ? People who don't read news ? You've got a car that is substantially better in almost every conceivable category (it generates all wheel drive with two different motors, for instance) ... and the press release for the 7 series is going on and on about how advanced their new engine is and bragging about their (laughable, in light of the model S) 0-60 time. Basically it's 20 pages of "blah blah not electric blah blah". It's painful to look at. OBLIGATORY: Not a huge Model S fan, at least in terms of size (not really a full sized four door) and interior appointment (which is amazingly sparse and devoid of options compared to 7/A8/S) ... and further, would much prefer a 7 series or Panamera on a fully-electric platform. But we don't have that, so I guess we have to settle for "the best car we've ever tested".[1] [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas-p85d-is-the-best-car-consumer-reports-has-ever-tested.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas-p85d-is-the-best-car-c...

FireBeyond 11y ago
I'm going to guess that it doesn't get that performance or fuel efficiency when hauling seven people, though.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  Once a car is at cruising speed on mostly level ground, weight doesn't matter nearly as much as aerodynamics.
- mikeash 11y ago
  I assume that by "it" you mean the Model S? Keep in mind that when you have 7 people in it, at least two must be relatively small (77lbs or under) children. So the added weight isn't quite as much as it sounds. The P85D weighs just under 5,000lbs empty. Say your 7 passengers add 1,000lbs of weight, that's a 20% penalty on acceleration. Might be noticeable, but performance will still be extremely good. As for range, aerodynamic drag dominates at highway speeds, which is where you'll be spending most of your time on a trip. The efficiency hit from extra passengers will be down in the noise. You could probably recoup it by driving 2MPH slower. I haven't done a long trip with 7, but I did do a reasonably long road trip with 6 in my Model S, and the extra weight was not noticeable. You don't want to be flooring it in a powerful car with small kids most of the time anyway, and the energy use predictions were still spot on.

amalag 11y ago

So did they take affordability into account?

dragontamer 11y ago
They took neither affordability nor reliability into account. Details here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-breaks-consumer-reports-ratings-system.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tesla-model-s-p85d-b...
- matheweis 11y ago
  ... which are the two most important things that I care about. I which there was a rating system that looked at these - especially over the long term.
juliangoldsmith 11y ago
The Model S is meant to be compared to the BMW 7-series, which is around the same price.

linkydinkandyou 11y ago

I'm a Tesla owner (a 3 month old P85D) and it really isn't the best car for everyone. We still have a gasoline car (a Chevy Volt) because every now and then you need to take a long trip. It also has a wonky UI. The touch screen isn't perfect and a few dedicated knobs and buttons on the dash service would go a long way. And it's way too expensive to be the "perfect" car. It's an interesting gadget for geeks (like me!) with enough income to buy one without thinking about it. The fit and finish of other $100,000 cars exceeds that of the Tesla. (We also have solar on the house so we're not burning coal in some poor person's neighborhood to run it.)

dmix 11y ago

This is offtopic but the video of peoples reaction using the 'insane' button in the Model S P85D was some really great marketing for Tesla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaLgF1uLB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaLgF1uLB8 The feature is a novelty but it makes for great social media bait. I never share links about cars with family/friends but I felt compelled to this time. It's entertaining because the car is completely silent while it pins them back in the seat - and people are having very honest reactions to the experience.

adam12 11y ago
> great marketing for Tesla Yeah, until someone dies from this sort of reckless driving.
- johnnyg 11y ago
  I don't think Telsa providing a given feature set makes them responsible for the misuse of it.
  - adam12 11y ago
    Of course it doesn't make them responsible. I just don't think someone should be driving like that unless they are on a test track.
    - beachstartup 11y ago
      i punch it at full throttle to 65mph every time i use an on-ramp. i bought a performance car to use it as advertised. perfectly legal, and appropriate, when traffic permits. in fact, if you don't, you're probably a shitty driver and need to learn how to merge. when you're merging into a river of steel doing 80mph and you're doing 45 because you're watching the consumption meter on your hybrid, you're an asshole.
      - killface 11y ago
        you must live in the bay area...

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

How can you exceed your max value? This has always bothered me, its pretty much admitting "We kinda pull numbers out of our butts." When I see this in other media, like movies or games, it seems to be a direct response to hype or personal politics. Maybe CR is overly green and wants to promote EV's? Reminds me of when Obama got a Nobel Peace prize for things he will do in the future. Also, the Simpsons did it first: Tralawney: Listen, we've been meaning to have a talk with you about your reviews. Everything's a rave! Nine thumbs up, what the hell is that? Homer: I've given out my share of bad reviews Beaumont: Oh, the only bad review you gave was to a slice of pizza you found under the couch. Homer: It lost some points because it had a Hot Wheel on it.

mikeash 11y ago
I think people are making too big of a deal about scoring greater than the "maximum." It's pretty clear that they came up with some arbitrary scoring system where each aspect of the car gets some number of points. There's nothing wrong with that, any rating is going to be arbitrary to some degree. They then arranged the scales such that whatever they saw as a good car would come close to 100, because 100 seems like a nice number. Then they test a car with a combination of attributes they never expected, and it exceeds 100. 100 isn't the actual maximum, it's just what they thought would be the top score from their system. Turns out that if you throw a car at their system that is extremely efficient and powerful and seats lots of people, the numbers go higher.
- SilasX 11y ago
  Similar issue with the "Coefficient of Performance" in heating and cooling[1], which is the ratio of "energy extracted" to "energy consumed". Since you're just moving energy around, this value can easily be greater than 100% -- no violation of the laws of thermodynamics! 100% is just as arbitrary a value on this scale. . However, there's still always a relevant maximum that you should measure relative to, and refrigerators have a theoretical maximum. The maximum ("Carnot") efficiency is the ratio of the higher (absolute) temperature to the temperature difference. For room temperature to freezing, that would be ~300/27 = 11.1 = 1100%. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

chabby 11y ago

Just my 2 cents: I've driven both a P85D and a 2014 Porsche 911 4S cabriolet fairly extensively. Guess which one I decided to buy? The Porsche. These might not be two cars that are commonly cross-shopped, and the Tesla does beat the Porsche to 60 mph. Still, the Porsche was clearly the winner in just about every other way in my estimation. Anyone else have a similar experience?

tajen 11y ago
> in just about every other way I might not be able to buy a Porsche any time soon, but which ways are you suggesting?
Gracana 11y ago
> the Tesla does beat the Porsche to 60 mph I wonder if it would do it 60 times in a row. http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2014/see-how-good-porsche-launch-control-is/ http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2014/see-how-good-porsche-laun...
- ajtaylor 11y ago
  The sound of the engine made me drool. And being able to do it hands off... that's some damn fine engineering and software!
toephu2 11y ago
Not sure how the Porsche was the winner in every way? Going from point A->B (work commute), is your foot hard on the pedal every day? Can you even have your foot all the way down (traffic)? Tesla wins by far in terms of energy-efficiency, luxury, capacity, and just overall being more useful than the Porsche (and still being fun to drive). The only minus is the price tag. But Porsches aren't cheap either. But yeah I understand, any true racing enthusiast would probably choose a Porsche over a Tesla.
- redthrowaway 11y ago
  >Tesla wins by far in terms of...luxury Except it doesn't. One of the biggest complaints about the Model S is that its interior belongs in a specced-up Accord, not an S-class competitor.

tw04 11y ago

I get that the Tesla is awesome, but it seems pretty frigging ridiculous that to give a car 103 out of 100 when it only has a range of 200 miles.

sahaskatta 11y ago
How ridiculous would it be for a car company to give you a lifetime unlimited supply of gasoline along with the purchase of your car? Absolutely ridiculous. Guess what? That's exactly what Tesla does. http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger Unlike gas cars, you start off with 200 miles of range EVERY MORNING since you charge overnight. Most Americans also only drive an average of 40 miles a day. And for those long trips, you have Superchargers.
- reasonishy 11y ago
  They recently told people to stop using the supercharger so much. I'm doubtful it's a viable business model long term.
- tw04 11y ago
  How ridiculous would it be for a car company to give you a lifetime unlimited supply of gasoline - but you have to wait in line 30 minutes for it every time. And oh by the way, it's an hour from your house, and you'll use a third of a tank getting there and back. And there's only like 200 stations total worldwide. So... awesome, right? Oh, and we built the cost of those stations into the car, so it's not REALLY free. yawn
  - giarc 11y ago
    I can't comment on some things (like the line ups at super charger stations) but other things I can. You say "it's an hour from your house", if you are at your house, why wouldn't you just charge at your house? 200 supercharger stations worldwide, but that's not counting electric vehicle charging stations, plus the station in your driveway. All gas stations are further away than the tesla station in the garage. Yes, the cost of the vehicle includes the cost of building supercharger stations, but then again, the cost of gas includes the cost of building stations too, so maybe a bad comparison. I see where you are going with your arguments, however they don't all apply. I think the most valid thing you said is perhaps the line ups, but again I can't comment on that, not to mention gas stations have line ups... so there's that.

buckbova 11y ago

Does this Tesla S still overheat on a lap of Nürburgring?

toephu2 11y ago
yes probably, but how often are you taking your family sedan for a lap around the Nürburgring?

mschuster91 11y ago

What I'd really like to see, and Tesla is already beginning to do it, is modular, upgrade-able cars. Like, a new engine, better in-car entertainment, better sound system, seat-heating, cruise control, distance control, semi/full automatic driving... if I could e.g. buy a stripped down Tesla as a student which I can then (given, of course, I don't crash it) upgrade over its lifetime as I put some money aside, instead of having to buy an entirely new car when the old one is still perfectly functioning.

dragontamer 11y ago
This is actually a clever marketing trick by Elon Musk. You cannot upgrade a Roadster, and you cannot upgrade the P70 models either. Tesla has been pretty unclear about their modularity and upgrades. Be careful when reading marketing material: these marketing slides open your imagination but aren't necessarily filled with the truth. They've kept things vague to help stir our imaginations... but don't go dropping $70,000 on vague promises. When Tesla starts actually making modular cars, we'll know the details. Until then, treat these promises as marketing and/or vaporware. I'm sure Elon Musk is going to push his company to actually deliver on his promises, but sometimes engineers can only do so much.
- greglindahl 11y ago
  Actually, Tesla does plan on shipping an upgrade to existing Roadsters. It'll be expensive and probably later than claimed, but there you have it: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-30 http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-30 http://gas2.org/2015/05/05/340-mile-tesla-roadster-upgrade-due-out-in-august/ http://gas2.org/2015/05/05/340-mile-tesla-roadster-upgrade-d... I agree with your comment that it's easy to fantasize about upgrades that will never happen. Early Model S cars lack the hardware for driving assistance, and my friends who think they know about such things predict that additional computer power will be needed to achieve all that Elon is predicting for self-driving. A better battery pack for all Model S cars, on the other hand, is likely to eventually show up. All existing cars can be upgraded to the 90 KWh battery, but Tesla is suggesting that everyone is better off waiting for a more significant upgrade later in your battery's life.

lloydde 11y ago

Looks like all the news has overloaded consumerreports.org. And I need a new clothing dryer! http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/consumerreports.org.html http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/consumerreports.org.html