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Cagefighting came into existence as a way to test the efficacy of traditional martial arts. So much of what is taught is complete rubbish ("lethal techniques" t

Cagefighting came into existence as a way to test the efficacy of traditional martial arts. So much of what is taught is complete rubbish ("lethal techniques" that only ever practised against compliant opponents, etc.). All the beautiful movements and choreographed dancing of traditional martial arts fly out of the window when you face a skilled fighter that is trying to hurt you. The fighters know exactly what they sign up for, and probably would not want it any other way. They are consenting adults having fun. :) Regarding the brutalization of judo: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas, any martial art that was not brutal would be of no use there. Thinking that a martial art should not be brutal reveals a special kind of first-world thinking.

Pxtl 11y ago
> Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas The article paints a very different picture, an upper-class family dynasty developing the martial art.
- vetler 11y ago
  Yes, he is mistaken. BJJ is certainly practiced in favelas, and there are people who use it to give youths something to do, as a way to keep them away from crime, drugs, etc. See the Tererê Kids Project, for instance: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/social-change-through-jiu-jitsu-the-terere-kids-project http://fightland.vice.com/blog/social-change-through-jiu-jit...
- sanoli 11y ago
  No, it was not born in the favelas. The article is right. The Gracies were never poor and never lived in favelas. I'm a Brazilian with a pretty good knowledge of BJJ history (my father watched Helio's fights, etc).
adamnemecek 11y ago
> Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas, any martial art that was not brutal would be of no use there. Do you know the difference between martial arts and martial sports? Fundamentally if there is competition, it's a sport ergo they don't teach you the lethal techniques. Also differentiate between lethal and brutal.
- qrendel 11y ago
  There's a lot of vitriol between people who practice different styles, with a lot of guys from traditional styles (karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, etc.) claiming combat sports are worthless in a Real Fight (TM) because it's just competition. Completely inaccurate in my experience - people who compete in full-contact combat sports will almost always beat the people who don't, other things being equal. The techniques don't have to be lethal to completely destroy your opponent, and BJJ was made for choking people out or breaking their limbs so badly they literally cannot continue the fight. Not to mention there's a plethora of illegal techniques ranging from neck cranks to spinal locks, removed from competition because they're far too dangerous and can kill or paralyze you. The best tournament practitioners are a lot more likely to know these and be able to apply them than people who sit around theorizing about them. But there's still a lot of big ego'd guys who can't fight and like to impress and intimidate people with statements like, "This technique is far too dangerous for me to actually demonstrate, but I could use it to destroy sport fighters any time I wanted! Don't make me hurt you to prove it." It's a lot of BS, and easier to perpetuate because grapplers can still beat you without hurting you that bad, whereas if you challenge a boxer and he caves your face in people don't get right up and say, "One more try, I can do better next time!" One of my best MA memories was getting my ass kicked in 5 seconds by a guy half my size who was only using one arm because the other was broken in a recent grappling tournament. Don't fall into the "combat sports aren't real" mentality. BJJ, judo, and wrestling guys will mess you up if you're not trained in how to defend against them.
  - kasey_junk 11y ago
    > BJJ, judo, and wrestling guys will mess you up if you're not trained in how to defend against them. This has been made painfully aware to me on enough occasions that it feels ingrained as instinct. That said, too many people assume that violence is an easily categorizable thing. Most people simply don't have a lot of exposure to the risk of a violent encounter between exactly 2, largely similarly sized, unarmed belligerents, that you can't talk your way out of or run away from. Quite contrarily if you are going to experience violence outside of a military or professional context in most parts of the Western world it is overwhelmingly going to be either domestic violence or a surprise attack with multiple attackers and/or weapons. In many of these cases the absolute worst case scenario is ending up on the ground. The point being that grappling/boxing/etc are fun activities and are great ways to win a fight, but honestly you aren't likely to get in a fight.

Pxtl 11y ago

> Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas The article paints a very different picture, an upper-class family dynasty developing the martial art.

vetler 11y ago
Yes, he is mistaken. BJJ is certainly practiced in favelas, and there are people who use it to give youths something to do, as a way to keep them away from crime, drugs, etc. See the Tererê Kids Project, for instance: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/social-change-through-jiu-jitsu-the-terere-kids-project http://fightland.vice.com/blog/social-change-through-jiu-jit...
sanoli 11y ago
No, it was not born in the favelas. The article is right. The Gracies were never poor and never lived in favelas. I'm a Brazilian with a pretty good knowledge of BJJ history (my father watched Helio's fights, etc).

adamnemecek 11y ago

> Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas, any martial art that was not brutal would be of no use there. Do you know the difference between martial arts and martial sports? Fundamentally if there is competition, it's a sport ergo they don't teach you the lethal techniques. Also differentiate between lethal and brutal.

qrendel 11y ago
There's a lot of vitriol between people who practice different styles, with a lot of guys from traditional styles (karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, etc.) claiming combat sports are worthless in a Real Fight (TM) because it's just competition. Completely inaccurate in my experience - people who compete in full-contact combat sports will almost always beat the people who don't, other things being equal. The techniques don't have to be lethal to completely destroy your opponent, and BJJ was made for choking people out or breaking their limbs so badly they literally cannot continue the fight. Not to mention there's a plethora of illegal techniques ranging from neck cranks to spinal locks, removed from competition because they're far too dangerous and can kill or paralyze you. The best tournament practitioners are a lot more likely to know these and be able to apply them than people who sit around theorizing about them. But there's still a lot of big ego'd guys who can't fight and like to impress and intimidate people with statements like, "This technique is far too dangerous for me to actually demonstrate, but I could use it to destroy sport fighters any time I wanted! Don't make me hurt you to prove it." It's a lot of BS, and easier to perpetuate because grapplers can still beat you without hurting you that bad, whereas if you challenge a boxer and he caves your face in people don't get right up and say, "One more try, I can do better next time!" One of my best MA memories was getting my ass kicked in 5 seconds by a guy half my size who was only using one arm because the other was broken in a recent grappling tournament. Don't fall into the "combat sports aren't real" mentality. BJJ, judo, and wrestling guys will mess you up if you're not trained in how to defend against them.
- kasey_junk 11y ago
  > BJJ, judo, and wrestling guys will mess you up if you're not trained in how to defend against them. This has been made painfully aware to me on enough occasions that it feels ingrained as instinct. That said, too many people assume that violence is an easily categorizable thing. Most people simply don't have a lot of exposure to the risk of a violent encounter between exactly 2, largely similarly sized, unarmed belligerents, that you can't talk your way out of or run away from. Quite contrarily if you are going to experience violence outside of a military or professional context in most parts of the Western world it is overwhelmingly going to be either domestic violence or a surprise attack with multiple attackers and/or weapons. In many of these cases the absolute worst case scenario is ending up on the ground. The point being that grappling/boxing/etc are fun activities and are great ways to win a fight, but honestly you aren't likely to get in a fight.