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Unfunded liabilities (money that is owed, but not currently on-hand) in the United States are said to be greater than $127T: http://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp

by jes 11y ago

Unfunded liabilities (money that is owed, but not currently on-hand) in the United States are said to be greater than $127T: http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/you-think-the-deficit-is-bad-federal-unfunded-liabilities-exceed-127-trillion/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/you-think-th... This does not account for unfunded liabilities owed by the states. The situation there is very difficult as well. You also mention that China is rampant with corruption. In my view, with respect to politics and cronyism, I think the United States government is also highly corrupt. I would like to share your optimistic outlook, but unfortunately, I'm not able to do so given all that I see going on around me.

PublicEnemy111 11y ago
The US government does not lie about growth, nor does it threaten money managers with prison time for selling stocks.
cromwellian 11y ago
This is all pretty obvious and a long time coming. There are a lot of forces at play: aging of the population, greater returns to capital vs labor due to increasing productivity. As an absurd conclusion, birthrates drop to ~1 per couple, 2/3rds of the population retired, and robots put most people out of work. Is it really so surprising that taxes would have to go up massively on the owners of the robots and other capital to provide all of the retirees a basic income? Hans Moravec, who ran the CMU robotics department, pointed out these trends in his 1988 book _Mind Children_ and what the end game would be. My fear about the unfunded liabilities argument is that it appears to be the new talking point of Trump and Fox News, and rather than see the writing on the wall with respect to the long term trends in the labor market and demographics, it'll just be more arguments about slashing federal social programs, pensions, and the liabilities themselves, which will make us all the less prepared when the real devil comes knocking.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>Unfunded liabilities (money that is owed, but not currently on-hand) in the United States are said to be greater than $127T: This is classic one-sided accounting. That money is not vaporized, never to be seen again when it's paid out. It is paid to US citizens as income. Out one pocket, into another.
- wutbrodo 11y ago
  I'm far from a reflexive debt hawk, but when someone mentions something like this, aren't they usually referring to the instability inherent in unfunded liabilities (as opposed to what you seem to be assuming (s)he means, which is that the money is illusory)?
  - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
    And let's not ignore the usa's role as a debtor of last resort: people actually need to save money for retirement, China and Norway needs to do something with their dollars so their economies don't overheat. Even if the interest rates suck, the US gov and financial system has always been will to take your dollars off your hands in a pretty safe way, which is part of the reason the dollar has been so successful.
- jes 11y ago
  I suspect whatever fraction of it is to be paid will be stolen from the young / yet-to-be-born and given to others. That strikes me as extremely corrupt. Politicians steal from the young / unborn and use the money to advance their careers. But to your point, yes, it's from one American to another, strictly speaking. I don't see that as making it moral.
pnut 11y ago
I've got maybe 70 more years to live, my unfunded liabilities spiral into the millions!!! And that's before children! I must be bankrupt!

by jes 11y ago

PublicEnemy111 11y ago

The US government does not lie about growth, nor does it threaten money managers with prison time for selling stocks.

cromwellian 11y ago

This is all pretty obvious and a long time coming. There are a lot of forces at play: aging of the population, greater returns to capital vs labor due to increasing productivity. As an absurd conclusion, birthrates drop to ~1 per couple, 2/3rds of the population retired, and robots put most people out of work. Is it really so surprising that taxes would have to go up massively on the owners of the robots and other capital to provide all of the retirees a basic income? Hans Moravec, who ran the CMU robotics department, pointed out these trends in his 1988 book _Mind Children_ and what the end game would be. My fear about the unfunded liabilities argument is that it appears to be the new talking point of Trump and Fox News, and rather than see the writing on the wall with respect to the long term trends in the labor market and demographics, it'll just be more arguments about slashing federal social programs, pensions, and the liabilities themselves, which will make us all the less prepared when the real devil comes knocking.

forgetsusername 11y ago

>Unfunded liabilities (money that is owed, but not currently on-hand) in the United States are said to be greater than $127T: This is classic one-sided accounting. That money is not vaporized, never to be seen again when it's paid out. It is paid to US citizens as income. Out one pocket, into another.

wutbrodo 11y ago
I'm far from a reflexive debt hawk, but when someone mentions something like this, aren't they usually referring to the instability inherent in unfunded liabilities (as opposed to what you seem to be assuming (s)he means, which is that the money is illusory)?
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  And let's not ignore the usa's role as a debtor of last resort: people actually need to save money for retirement, China and Norway needs to do something with their dollars so their economies don't overheat. Even if the interest rates suck, the US gov and financial system has always been will to take your dollars off your hands in a pretty safe way, which is part of the reason the dollar has been so successful.
jes 11y ago
I suspect whatever fraction of it is to be paid will be stolen from the young / yet-to-be-born and given to others. That strikes me as extremely corrupt. Politicians steal from the young / unborn and use the money to advance their careers. But to your point, yes, it's from one American to another, strictly speaking. I don't see that as making it moral.

pnut 11y ago

I've got maybe 70 more years to live, my unfunded liabilities spiral into the millions!!! And that's before children! I must be bankrupt!