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Love to know the actual reason for this coordinated attack on Amazon. What's about Seattle based software companies and irritated established interests? /(a big

Love to know the actual reason for this coordinated attack on Amazon. What's about Seattle based software companies and irritated established interests? /(a big) wink

eternalban 11y ago
Instead of downvoting you may want to reflect on the fact that an actual story [1] got buried in 'Tech' section of the paper of record and the hear-say attack piece on Amazon went straight to front page. Front page of NYTimes is a very (very) politically hot space, don't you think? /another big wink ;) [1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/01/technology/engineers-allege-hiring-collusion-in-silicon-valley.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/01/technology/engineers-alleg...
- gress 11y ago
  Instead of innuendo - why not just state who you think is behind this and what evidence you have?
spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
Sometimes one company becomes the whiping boy for the bad behavior of the majority - and if your hitting major publishers where it hurts its a good idea not to give them any ammunition. Amazon just have to hope that Rupert Murdoch doesn't go after them
Someone1234 11y ago
There have been whisperings about Amazon's work culture for many years. I know I've read complaints from tech employees on social media for the longest time. I've also seen several articles about their warehouse employees and what they go through. I think the reason you're seeing so many articles about it recently is that there is "blood in the water." And people love to bandwagon in the media in general, but in tech media especially. I do think Amazon's work culture deserves some discussion, but will agree that at some point there is only so much you can say about it before you have to move on. Bringing up the 401K in particular just seems like a "me too!" article, with nothing specific to add to the discussion (i.e. this could have been a footnote in a full article on the topic). The CEO (and other executives) coming out and saying "everything is wonderful at Amazon, I never see anyone upset!" (paraphrasing) only added fuel to the fire as it seemed so totally out of touch almost to the point of being laughable. That's what turned this from a small fire into a raging one (plus they love to try and humble CEOs).
outside1234 11y ago
I think Amazon is the source of this attack on Amazon. :)
rdtsc 11y ago
> Love to know the actual reason for this coordinated attack on Amazon. Going out on a limb here -- because it has a pretty bad work environment compared to other similar companies?
- eternalban 11y ago
  But it wasn't really 'good' journalism. Counter points from Amazon employees were compelling and raised good objections. I think NYTimes is worried about losing its entirely unearned special social perch in context of distribution channels and e-markets.
  - aioprisan 11y ago
    It really was good journalism, by all acceptable definitions of that term. Just because a number of engineers report never being treated that way, that doesn't negate the hundreds of data points that the Times used in the piece, which were all approved by Amazon ahead of time.
    - umanwizard 11y ago
      I've heard the Times interviewed hundreds of people. NOT that the hundreds of people all said the same thing. Unless you have some confirmation of that, I suspect the quotes in the article are the result of cherry-picking.
      - aioprisan 11y ago
        That's not how newspaper editing works. No one is going to prove to you the editor's logic that went into selecting those interviews and that they are indeed representative (how could you ever fully quantify that?), but to suggest otherwise means that you're doubting every article ever published by any newspaper.
        umanwizard 11y ago
        Well, most press about things I have direct experience with is either outright wrong or extremely misleading, so how can I trust the press on things I don't have direct experience with? I'm not sure doubting every article ever published by any newspaper is such a bad idea. I'll take my own experience working at Amazon for 2 years and knowing dozens of hundreds of Amazon employees over blind faith in the Times's editors.
philiphodgen 11y ago
One reason for the attacks on Amazon: they are coming from the New York Times. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post -- a significant competitor to the NYT. The NYT is in the happy position of damaging a competitor while generating clicks. It's personal, in other words.
- aioprisan 11y ago
  That's a copout. Just because Bezos buys one large newspaper now means that any other newspaper presenting a well-documented expose of the company with hundreds of their own employees talking about systemic issues is invalid?
- serge2k 11y ago
  right because the NYT article was the first time something came out about amazon. from an engineer https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/3ce0s8/dear_amazon_interns_some_advice_from_an_old_man/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/3ce0s8/dear_amazon... some stuff about the FC workers http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_sick_brutality_and_secret_history_of_ruthlessly_intimidating_workers/ http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_... battles in germany with unions http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/16/us-amazon-com-germany-idUSKBN0N71M620150416 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/16/us-amazon-com-germ...
meatysnapper 11y ago
Amazon is widely recognized to have a horrible work culture. Microsoft, for all its evils, does not (or at least didn't, before stack ranking). I know a bunch of people from both places, and the latter group was much happier. Tellingly, when the Microsofties got sick of their work, none of them left for Amazon. None of them.
- NotABox 11y ago
  This is easily verified. A search on my LinkedIn account for previous employer Microsoft / current employer Amazon brings up 832 results (you may get more or less, depending on your LinkedIn connections.) I get 578 results going the other way.
serge2k 11y ago
People are jumping on because it's a hot topic right now. A few years ago it was stack ranking at MS.

Love to know the actual reason for this coordinated attack on Amazon. What's about Seattle based software companies and irritated established interests? /(a big) wink

eternalban 11y ago

Instead of downvoting you may want to reflect on the fact that an actual story [1] got buried in 'Tech' section of the paper of record and the hear-say attack piece on Amazon went straight to front page. Front page of NYTimes is a very (very) politically hot space, don't you think? /another big wink ;) [1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/01/technology/engineers-allege-hiring-collusion-in-silicon-valley.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/01/technology/engineers-alleg...

gress 11y ago
Instead of innuendo - why not just state who you think is behind this and what evidence you have?

spacecowboy_lon 11y ago

Sometimes one company becomes the whiping boy for the bad behavior of the majority - and if your hitting major publishers where it hurts its a good idea not to give them any ammunition. Amazon just have to hope that Rupert Murdoch doesn't go after them

Someone1234 11y ago

There have been whisperings about Amazon's work culture for many years. I know I've read complaints from tech employees on social media for the longest time. I've also seen several articles about their warehouse employees and what they go through. I think the reason you're seeing so many articles about it recently is that there is "blood in the water." And people love to bandwagon in the media in general, but in tech media especially. I do think Amazon's work culture deserves some discussion, but will agree that at some point there is only so much you can say about it before you have to move on. Bringing up the 401K in particular just seems like a "me too!" article, with nothing specific to add to the discussion (i.e. this could have been a footnote in a full article on the topic). The CEO (and other executives) coming out and saying "everything is wonderful at Amazon, I never see anyone upset!" (paraphrasing) only added fuel to the fire as it seemed so totally out of touch almost to the point of being laughable. That's what turned this from a small fire into a raging one (plus they love to try and humble CEOs).

outside1234 11y ago

I think Amazon is the source of this attack on Amazon. :)

rdtsc 11y ago

> Love to know the actual reason for this coordinated attack on Amazon. Going out on a limb here -- because it has a pretty bad work environment compared to other similar companies?

eternalban 11y ago
But it wasn't really 'good' journalism. Counter points from Amazon employees were compelling and raised good objections. I think NYTimes is worried about losing its entirely unearned special social perch in context of distribution channels and e-markets.
- aioprisan 11y ago
  It really was good journalism, by all acceptable definitions of that term. Just because a number of engineers report never being treated that way, that doesn't negate the hundreds of data points that the Times used in the piece, which were all approved by Amazon ahead of time.
  - umanwizard 11y ago
    I've heard the Times interviewed hundreds of people. NOT that the hundreds of people all said the same thing. Unless you have some confirmation of that, I suspect the quotes in the article are the result of cherry-picking.
    - aioprisan 11y ago
      That's not how newspaper editing works. No one is going to prove to you the editor's logic that went into selecting those interviews and that they are indeed representative (how could you ever fully quantify that?), but to suggest otherwise means that you're doubting every article ever published by any newspaper.
      - umanwizard 11y ago
        Well, most press about things I have direct experience with is either outright wrong or extremely misleading, so how can I trust the press on things I don't have direct experience with? I'm not sure doubting every article ever published by any newspaper is such a bad idea. I'll take my own experience working at Amazon for 2 years and knowing dozens of hundreds of Amazon employees over blind faith in the Times's editors.

philiphodgen 11y ago

One reason for the attacks on Amazon: they are coming from the New York Times. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post -- a significant competitor to the NYT. The NYT is in the happy position of damaging a competitor while generating clicks. It's personal, in other words.

aioprisan 11y ago
That's a copout. Just because Bezos buys one large newspaper now means that any other newspaper presenting a well-documented expose of the company with hundreds of their own employees talking about systemic issues is invalid?
serge2k 11y ago
right because the NYT article was the first time something came out about amazon. from an engineer https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/3ce0s8/dear_amazon_interns_some_advice_from_an_old_man/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/3ce0s8/dear_amazon... some stuff about the FC workers http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_sick_brutality_and_secret_history_of_ruthlessly_intimidating_workers/ http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_... battles in germany with unions http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/16/us-amazon-com-germany-idUSKBN0N71M620150416 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/16/us-amazon-com-germ...

meatysnapper 11y ago

Amazon is widely recognized to have a horrible work culture. Microsoft, for all its evils, does not (or at least didn't, before stack ranking). I know a bunch of people from both places, and the latter group was much happier. Tellingly, when the Microsofties got sick of their work, none of them left for Amazon. None of them.

NotABox 11y ago
This is easily verified. A search on my LinkedIn account for previous employer Microsoft / current employer Amazon brings up 832 results (you may get more or less, depending on your LinkedIn connections.) I get 578 results going the other way.

serge2k 11y ago

People are jumping on because it's a hot topic right now. A few years ago it was stack ranking at MS.