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Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me
- formichunter 11y agoIn northern virginia, fairfaxunderground website, was nice enough to parse only information pertinent to this area. Now, everybody and their friends have searched through it looking for people they know. My wife actually found a good friend's dad listed twice...and he's still married. So, now all those facebook connection have this awkward knowledge and no one will tell the friend.
- ryanackley 11y agoIs it "nice" to encourage violating other people's privacy? Spouses are the real victims in these situations. Part of the pain of infidelity is the humiliation. Airing a whole community's dirty laundry just makes it worse for the victims.
- JupiterMoon 11y agoI think (hope) that she was being sarcastic with use of the word "nice" in this context?
- smoyer 11y agoI also read that as sarcasm
- balabaster 11y agoCan you clarify your meaning of community in this context? You mean the AM community or the "victim's" community? Also, who are you referencing as the victim, the person who had their data leaked or those affected by the fallout? In the context of those affected by the fallout, if enough are affected, then one could claim the opposite: That it makes it easier knowing that so many were affected that nobody is passing any judgment on their specific incident because everyone is in the same boat - thus the humiliation is actually less.
- lolo_ 11y agoI really think you (or a mod) should edit this to not mention the site name. Regardless of what these people have done (or tried to do) let's not spread the misery further by making it easier for people to find this information.
- dhimes 11y agoI understand your point, and I may disagree (not really sure). This is misery, and it sucks for all involved. However, the meta-issue is privacy, how we are being eaten alive by a tragedy-of-the-commons situation where so very many people will allow our privacy erosion by simply thinking it doesn't affect them (the "Well, I've got nothing to hide" excuse). The one thing that resonates with nearly everybody, however, is sex. Sex hits most of the 'bell curve' (to put it crassly). So, part of me says that all of this information should be exposed, so that people start to 'get it.' I don't know- I'm on the fence here.
- smtddr 11y agoAnyone who even knows HN exists will be tech-savvy enough to find all the sites, or torrents, providing the data without having to read a comment on HN.
- lolo_ 11y agoSure, but there's at least the barrier of making the effort to do that, naming the site makes it a google away and if you happen to be in the area it covers it'll be tempting. It's easier to diet when you don't have a chocolate bar in front of you!
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- inversionOf 11y agoThere has been a surprising hesitation by many in making the data searchable. I mean, it's straight up mySQL dumps. You don't even have to do any complex ETL. Making that geographically and attribute searchable is remarkably easy. Like four hour project easy. Mapping everyone on OSM would be trivial. Yet very few such apps have appeared. I suspect because of the privacy implications, coupled with the fuzzy legal area of the data -- I might have it, but I'm not going to announce to the world that I do.
- leephillips 11y agoThe problem, if there is one, is not the data breach. The problem is this voyeuristic curiosity. It never even occurred to me to look at this data. How low would my self respect have to sink before I found it a good use of my time to go strolling in a sewer?
- notahacker 11y agoNot to mention the likelihood that similar "voyeuristic curiosity", as opposed to an active desire to start an affair, was behind many of the signups' decision to register for the site in the first place. Their decision to stroll in the sewer didn't help them out too much, and similarly I can't imagine someone sharing the information that they've been through the list of names winning them too many friends, regardless of what they choose to find or not disclose.
- danso 11y agoThe section about how confused the layperson is about technical details, e.g. what a database is and how the Internet generally works, makes me think that this data release is going to exacerbate paranoia about data and the Internet in general, rather than lead to a general awareness of better security precautions. I think as more fallout happens, there will be an increased sentiment in favor of such things as "right to be forgotten"...though perhaps that's not such a bad thing if it is in the context of requiring companies to wipe out old customer billing data upon request.
- benevol 11y ago> is going to exacerbate paranoia about data and the Internet in general Which seems rather appropriate given the extremely sick facts delivered to us by Snowden on a silver plate and the absence of change of course of society.
- Pyrodogg 11y agoYou don't even have to get to the dump itself to see expressions of extreme paranoia. See anyone in the media simply at a loss about 'the darkweb' and it being so full of unknown things by its nature.
- DanielBMarkham 11y agoImmediately, somebody should begin a study on the impact of this data leak. Millions of cheaters exposed? What will be the increase in counseling? Divorce rate? What percentage of folks will carry on like nothing has happened? It's an incredible story. I'm not sure the English language has a word to describe this: watching millions of people go through marital pain all at the same time. It's not a train wreck -- you can watch that and see that there are real people suffering. This is all just some huge faceless mob. I am reminded of Stalin's quote: when one man dies, it's a tragedy. When a million men die, it's a statistic. (I absolutely do not approve of lying and cheating on spouses. I will not keep your secret for you. But I also do not approve on taking action that would result in folks I do not know getting exposed. Folks have a right to their own lives.)
- NotOscarWilde 11y ago> But I also do not approve on taking action that would result in folks I do not know getting exposed. Folks have a right to their own lives. I do not think there is such a right, because what you are describing is (in probably many cases) a right to break an agreement (marriage in this case) and keep pretending that you honor it until you yourself disclose it. In simpler terms: you may have "a right to your own life", but do you have a right to lie to your partner?
- TDL 11y agoDo you have right? Yes. Should you lie to your partner? Probably not. People have the right to do many things, even if those things are not beneficial to them in the long term.
- true_religion 11y agoThis isn't just an issue of lying or not lying to their partner. Many people may have already worked out the cheating issue with their partners, and put themselves past it. However, now their friends and coworkers and neighbors can pretty easily search to see if they're in the dump. Not because they need to know... just because they're curious. I don't think these people need to be exposed to that kind of scrutiny.
- jalanco 11y agoReading this made me think about the hard problem of "removing" yourself from the internet. I don't think it is possible. But I do think there might be an opportunity for a service that creates so much conflicting and false information about a person that it is not possible to know the truth about them: false addresses, phone numbers, credit histories, you name it. Just a thought.
- amelius 11y agoI've been thinking about this a lot. But the problem is that such a service would have to violate EULAs of many popular services like facebook and twitter.
- DaFranker 11y agoEULAs are never legally binding, and especially not for someone who is 1) not currently a consenting user, and 2) invoking a right. So in the EU, if current legislation projects bear fruit, a case could probably be made for implementing this under the protection of the right to be forgotten, and there would be very little those services could do to prevent it.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago> EULAs are never legally binding Violation will certainly give the social media cite grounds and desire to delete the false profiles though.
- icebraining 11y agoNot to mention blocking such fake-profile creation services.
- VLM 11y agoAren't their financial valuations based on account numbers and made up metrics like that? So deleting this fraudulent account will cause a measurable, definable, actionable, $0.0001 decrease in shareholder value, ignoring it will have no effect on shareholder value, what is my fiduciary responsibility here?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- netcan 11y agoWhat I'm curious about is future changes in user behavior in response to this kind of stuff. Private data, public data and the public-private grey areas like pseudonymous posts, access restricted (FB-like) profiles and such are getting leaked all the time. Paranoia is definitely building. Awareness of how exposed people are is building. Yet, exposure is going up not down. People are posting more stuff online. I wonder if, for example, the cloud hack has impacted the trend of people taking nude picture at all? I suspect it hasn't. I suspect that none of these leaks will impact user behavior. On one hand, a leak of an Ashley madison profile or salacious photos makes people aware that the danger exists. On the other, it confirms how widespread and normal it is to do these things. Here's my (soft) prediction: Norms concerning fidelity and/or modesty will give before online behavior does. If the choice is stop sending nudie pictures or stop getting embarrassed when they leak, we'll go for the latter. For infidelity… maybe strict monogamy will soften as a norm.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago> I wonder if, for example, the cloud hack has impacted the trend of people taking nude picture at all? I suspect it hasn't. I've noticed recently that polaroid cameras are making a bit of a comeback. I wonder if this has any connection? (Not sure myself.)
- prawn 11y agoNo, it's purely a fashion/trend thing. Only ever seen them at parties and used as a gimmick to create a certain style of photo. Similar happens with vintage or modern photo booths hired for weddings.
- JustSomeNobody 11y agoOf course your prediction will come true, there's already a lot of evidence for it in the comments of most articles on the leak. Cheaters will be the victims and anyone who thinks cheating on one's spouse is bad will be considered insensitive.
- AlexandrB 11y ago
- everyone 11y agoAnyone else think this is funny?
- simondelacourt 11y agoIn this case; http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11500538 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_i... you might call it funny. But I'd probably call it sad. I don't think that exposing peoples private lives, even though they did something wrong, on this scale is remotely funny. I think it is quite sad. It does not only effect the members of the site, but also their families, the company they work at, etc.. This breach has so much collateral damage. I can not really understand how it is funny.
- ams6110 11y agoIt's not funny, it's tragic -- which can have a element of dark humor. It's exposing several dark facets of human nature: the desire to cheat on one of the most solemn commitments a person can make, and the vengeful joy others take in seeing those cheaters exposed.
- burnburnburn 11y agoNo: http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archives/2015/08/21/city-employee-with-email-address-linked-to-ashley-madison-committed-suicide http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archives/2015/08/21/city-empl...
- jacquesm 11y agoThink about how easy it would be to ruin someones reputation by signing them up for all kinds of shady services and then waiting for the (inevitable) breach. Of course that possibility will not stop the witchhunt but I'm fairly sure that at least a small percentage of the people in that database have no idea they're even in it.
- pavlov 11y agoYeah -- it's the digital equivalent of scribbling someone's phone number on the wall in a men's bathroom stall: "For a good time call 555-755-4988, ask for Jane"
- camillomiller 11y agoNot really an issue. If that's your real email they're using, you still need to verify it (many services request that as a way to confirm the account creation). That Ashley Madison data is full of unconfirmed addresses. I think Troy Hunt's tool excludes them.
- Ensorceled 11y agoWell, except the large number of people who have signed up for services such as credit protection, Sprint, AT&T, etc. all without my email address being verified first, means this is not fool proof.
- buro9 11y agoOr, run an internet forum and wait a while. I've been signed up to so much over the years that I mostly ignore it now, just unsub from the things I can and mark as spam everything else. BTW, if anyone implements a "Thank you for signing up" email, please please please put the original IP address used to sign up in the email along with the "If this is not you". The few services that have done this have enabled me to identify (from my own web server logs) the users of the forum(s) that have been peeved at me on those days. That at least gives me the chance to talk to them and stem the flow of porn emails (or whatever they've decided to sign me up to).
- JupiterMoon 11y agoWhat is the legal status of looking at hacked datasets like this?
- edent 11y agoIn the UK, it looks like a breach of the Data Protection Act - https://iconewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/personal-data-in-leaked-datasets-is-still-personal-data/ https://iconewsblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/personal-data-i... Likely to be similar across Europe.
- 6t6t6 11y agoNow it is a good moment to remember when they started to pass Data Protection laws in Europe 15 years ago and everybody was freaking out like "Oh my good, with this laws it will be impossible to do Internet business in Europe! All the companies will go to America!" Profit...
- pluma 11y agoFurthermore at least under German law I'm fairly certain their deletion fee is entirely illegal and retaining any records linked to the account (other than the separate billing information) after saying they've deleted your account would be even more so.
- JupiterMoon 11y agoIn general this is I think true throughout the EU. The problem has always been enforcement. I hope that one of the side effects of this leak will be to persuade companies that their databases are not just assets but also potential financial and legal liabilities.
- pluma 11y agoI'm not entirely sure about that. It's personal data in the sense that you're likely not allowed to process them (as a business or corporation -- whether for commercial use or not). But most of these laws are written for companies and for individuals granted access to personal information by those companies. As a person you're certainly not allowed to distribute the information (or at least not any personally identifiable parts of it) but mere "looking at them" doesn't seem like it would be a breach in and of itself. The article you linked would indicate this: looking at the data isn't a breach of the data protection act, it merely means whatever you do with the data falls under the provisions of that act, limiting what you can do with it.
- mayaross 11y agoOne thing that struck me about this is that all the messages from people worried their data are from men. Troy even states that explicitly: "very close to 100% of the emails I got were about men having accounts on the site". Why is that? Is it because men are more likely to cheat, or because men are more likely to need the help of online services to do so? I suspect both are true, but can say with confidence that the latter is definitely true. Women don't need sites to help them cheat; all they have to do is go out and they will be hunted down. As a woman I find this a clear sign of the remaining, quite sinister, gender inequality.
- RodericDay 11y agoof "the remaining" gender inequality?
- _cpancake 11y agoI'm not quite sure what you're confused about. The gender inequality that still exists. It's pretty straightforward.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- transfire 11y agoYou don't understand what it is like to be a man then. It has nothing to do with "inequality". When it comes to sex it is woman that hold most of the cards. For a man, unless they are handsome, wealthy and well endowed (i.e. perfect) then they are at the mercy of women. Which means they have two choices, they either "beg" for it or try to "take" it. Both come in a variety of subtle and overt forms. In either case it is a very insecure state for a single man. And ironically woman can sense that. Woman are always more interested in the taken man because that insecurity is no longer present. So in a cruel twist of fate, a taken man who struggled to woo his current mate discovers now he has many more options for the taking.
- transfire 11y agoAnyone notice that the media is eating this up? But let me tell you the media also lent its support to this website. I was watching CNBC a few years ago and they had the CEO of Ashley Madison on and had a great time talking about their "brilliant business model", and how great the site was. No one seemed morally repulsed then. Well I was curious just from a business perspective (and curious how many people would actually go for it). Turns out you could not even peek at the site without giving them your email address. So I did, thinking little of it, and discovered to my surprise that is all it took to create an account. After being thoroughly unimpressed (honestly I don't even recall the site it was so lack luster) I went to delete my account only to discover they wanted $80 to do so. Well, I discovered their brilliant business model. Far more disgusting than any individual that wound up in this data dump are the heads of this business. How have we come to accept this kind of immoral behavior on the large scale, while blanket condemning all the individuals who fell prey to their game?
- nsajko 11y agoWas that even legal?
- pluma 11y agoNot in the EU.
- burnburnburn 11y agoThe immoral business behavior seems to be the hackers' motivation, based on what they've written. They sought out to destroy the business. I'm guessing they'll succeed in that.
- bradleyankrom 11y agoI know the sample Troy showed may not be representative of the whole, but I think there are a lot of users, outside of tech, that aren't aware of the breach. There is a comment somewhere -- maybe it's from the article, I can't remember -- expressing surprise that the AM home page doesn't acknowledge the breach at all. I would imagine that they are still receiving signups from folks who aren't following this story.
- k__ 11y agoAs a poly guy I like how this incident holds a mirror up to society. So many people who lied to everyone about how they believe in mongamy.
- hn_thr0waway 11y ago+1. Getting on the soapbox... It's more sad than anything. Maybe some of the poly world is looking at this and thinking, "See? I told you!" and maybe feeling smug about the outing of hypocrites. What we really have here are people who for whatever reason can't, won't, or don't go down the road of consensual non-monogamy but their desires and needs don't go away so some of them cheat. I think that's wrong, not because it's immoral, but because they're engaged in lying, breaking trust, and hurting other people. The dispersal of the account information is also hurting people and providing a salacious topic for gossip when it's none of anyone's business but the people involved. It's not my or anyone else's obligation to out someone who avoided the communication, risk, and work for the consensual part of non-monogamy but I believe I should avoid that person because they are not trustworthy and show a lack of concern for other people. Exposing them publicly to prejudice and ridicule confirms the worst attitudes about sex and love. Sorry for the throwaway, my relationship status is no secret to family, friends, and colleagues but I don't want my private life public.
- pluma 11y agoReminds me of Ted Haggard when he was found out to mysteriously have a sexual interest in men. AM seems extremely representative of the American attitude to sex: seemingly everybody knows about AM, supposedly only sexual deviants use it, yet the leak reveals a significant portion of the population (and a lot of conservatives I would bet) signed up for it. Compare that to the porn industry: it's one of the US's biggest markets, tons of people work for it, insane amounts of people consume it, but if any individual admits to using porn they're some kind of sex addict or pervert (and oh my god the Christian family values -- won't someone think of the children!). A weird place, that country. Victorian morals on the outside, sexually liberated on the inside.
- adriand 11y agoI'm not religious, but I think the appropriate quote here is: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
- balabaster 11y agoI think it was the same person claimed to state: Do not judge lest thee be judged thyself. Also: You must love your neighbour as yourself... So basically... you're gonna fuck up at some point, so don't be too hard on others when they fuck up; because when you do it, you're gonna need some support and then where will you be?
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoWhy would it be appropriate here when very few people hold such a view? A lot of people say they don't judge others and think judging others is wrong, but they are always limited in scope to some subset of judgments. They will often be quick to judge a thief or worse who is on the stand. In the original story this quote comes from, the one guilty was to be stoned to death because they had committed a crime deserving the death penalty. In comparison to crimes with similar punishment today, how many would say to not judge a murderer unless you are blameless? Say it and mean it?
- adriand 11y ago> the one guilty was to be stoned to death because they had committed a crime deserving the death penalty. In comparison to crimes with similar punishment today, how many would say to not judge a murderer unless you are blameless? Surely you are aware that the "crime deserving the death penalty", in this instance, was the "crime" of adultery. Based on that, I don't think your line of questioning holds up.
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoI don't see how our modern view of what was then a capital crime matters. When the quote was said, it was said to a group who were asking to carry out a death sentence for a capital crime. That is to say, the line of reasoning is that you should not carry out an execution for a capital crime unless you are without sin. To insist that this quote only applies to adultery and not to other actions which different societies may or may not judge as capital crimes is about as meaningful as insisting that this literally means to not throw the first stone, but other punishments, including other means of execution, are allowed.
- coldcode 11y agoPeople who seriously used this site made their own bed and will have to lie in it, that's their life to live. But attacking this bunch of idiots at Avid Life is fair game; their security was stupid on a mega scale.
- 811639047892938 11y agoOne thing I'd really like to know, and obviously nobody will tell: There are surely STILL people signing up and paying right now, who don't know about the hack, or whatever. I'd just love to know whether their signups (not counting people who have recurring payments and haven't thought to cancel) have gone down 90%, 95%, or who knows, it could be one of those crazy things where they've only lost 50% of new users or something (although I'd doubt it). A recruiter working with AM contacted me 3 days before the hack was first announced and was really pushing me to work there, and I kind of want to just be a jerk and email them today saying "Hey I'm interested, are they still hiring?"
- sarciszewski 11y agoI'm still taken aback that a church would comb through the dump and email peoples' spouses. Just terrible.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- unchocked 11y agoTaking an active view of watching over the flock ;)
- kitd 11y agoYeah, that one has been bugging me all day for some reason. The utter hypocrisy! Of course, it may be that she is just a paranoid spouse but needs to concoct a reason to look up her husband's email without sounding too paranoid. Either way, it's sad beyond belief.
- myth_buster 11y agoSo got a call, from our church leaders yesterday, saying my husband's work email was on [redacted], oh my! This is extremely irresponsible and repulsive! I'm surprised that some organizations can take the liberty to encroach onto people's personal lives!
- logfromblammo 11y agoIf I got a call from a church, bearing gossip for the purposes of sowing discord in my family, I would have an important conversation with my spouse about immediately ending our relationship... with that church. If you value families, you should not go around hammering wedges into every crack you find in them.
- jsudhams 11y agoIs the society in the west changed so much that people condemn people using this service? i know that cheating is bad and blah blah... but atleast in my countty entire telebision serials is completely based on second wife/hidden wife and etc... so i beleive in my society the occurance extra marital affair may be more(my personal view). But would wife consider a husband cheater just because his id was on AM site? Woukld you in the western culture consider a person on chaturbate also same like cheater? How about people who think and masturbate? and what happens when some more sites data leakes like this and people take it as Nuisance
- venomsnake 11y agoIf you get caught red handed (or offend someone, or stuff like that) - never explain, never complain and under no circumstances - apologize. Neither of those things will help to improve your outcomes. And the people writing often break all 3 of them. You can go on offensive though (also known as the half Trump). Basic rules of maleness.
- known 11y agoWTF http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/08/21/ashley-madison-india_n_8020242.html http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/08/21/ashley-madison-india...
- pluma 11y agoPrior to seeing that map I wasn't even aware the service operated in Europe. I wonder what the actual user numbers look like across the globe.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]