4 ms·

I'll be very short, at least Iran and China didn't invade Iraq and Afghanistan on false pretenses. They aren't currently droning civilians in 5 countries. If yo

I'll be very short, at least Iran and China didn't invade Iraq and Afghanistan on false pretenses. They aren't currently droning civilians in 5 countries. If you pay taxes in America you are financially supporting their military efforts, that's how I look at it.

sildur 11y ago
China invaded Tibet on false pretenses.
- throwawayaway 11y ago
  What's the bodycount? Incidentally, may I ask how far back in history you are going, is it something more recent than this: > In October 1950, the People's Liberation Army entered the Tibetan area of Chamdo, defeating sporadic resistance from the Tibetan army. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet#1950_to_present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet#1950_to_prese... This? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tibetan_unrest#Casualties_and_fatalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tibetan_unrest#Casualties...
  - kjs3 11y ago
    How many bodies do you need before you care?
    - throwawayaway 11y ago
      1, I want to compare atrocities. You need numbers for that.
      - kjs3 11y ago
        You mean like "Only 10,000 of your people died. 20,000 of theirs did, so your atrocity isn't as important as theirs."? Helluva world view.
        throwawayaway 11y ago
        I certainly think 20,000 deaths is worse than 10,000 deaths yes. I believe there is a much greater discrepancy than 2x, between the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and ongoing drone strikes inflicting civilian casualties, and Chinese incursions into Tibet. That's not to say I support China in their incursions into Tibet. I am very sympathetic to those who have had atrocities committed towards them. I do think however that the scale of a crime is important, and can be compared. With the numbers you can make meaningful comparisons. This person committed two murders, this person committed one. To suggest all atrocities are equal is weak.
        kjs3 11y ago
        To suggest all atrocities are equal is weak. To suggest they aren't is morally bankrupt. Keeping score over which atrocity is worse than the other and using that as a benchmark of give-a-fuck is suffering porn, and engaging in it is a defect in your humanity. [edit for redundancy]
        throwawayaway 11y ago
        Well we have completely opposing views in that case. I think if you cannot compare atrocities or crimes you are suffering from sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies (i.e. morally bankrupt) but I say that as an armchair psychologist, much like you say what you say as an armchair moralist. I think given any number of examples you would gladly compare crimes and atrocities and quite easily state which you think is worse. Society does this also, you can usually find it expressed in the sentencing for crimes.
        kjs3 11y ago
        I think if you cannot compare atrocities or crimes you are suffering from sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies So because I don't tier atrocities into more or less horrifying based on numbers and treat them all as a negative means I have "sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies"? Doesn't take much to understand you don't know what those words mean, including moralist and psychologist.
  - sildur 11y ago
    Using your logic, spraying a country with mustard gas is better than killing half of their citizens, as the body count is smaller.
    - throwawayaway 11y ago
      Which crime is worse is the question you should be asking, instead of trying to invert the interpretation for reasons unknown.
adventured 11y ago
Iran has been murdering people through their terrorist proxies, such as Hezbollah, for decades. Their leaders can hardly stop talking about wanting to genocide the entire nation of Israel. China invaded, annexed, and exterminated the culture of Tibet - a nation four times the size of France geographically. China is also desperate to take Taiwan - a nation that wants absolutely nothing to do with being owned by China - openly admitting they'd be willing to murder large numbers of people through war to annex it. China is building artificial islands in the South China Sea, while routinely threatening neighbors and trying to claim vast water borders that clearly don't belong to them. China has also fought numerous wars with India and Vietnam, two of their largest neighbors. While having countless militaristic confrontations about land borders with basically all of their neighbors. That continues to this day with Japan, Vietnam, India, Philippines, Malaysia, etc. It'd be as though the US took its military, stacked threatening pieces of it on the border with Canada, and started proclaiming ownership of large parts of their border territories.
- throwawayaway 11y ago
  Your Iran point: How many civilians have Israel taken out in the recent past? America plays the proxy war game too. How much of ISIS armament is of American origin? How many civilians have ISIS taken out? I guess if you are from the country, it's less likely that you would outraged by your own military's actions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili... Thanks for the information regarding China's belligerence, but Chinese citizens might be more sympathetic to that. Much like any nationalists being sympathetic to their own nation's causes. Once you suggest a place as an alternative place to live, it's worth thinking about what a person who moves there would be supporting financially with their taxes.
  - vchynarov 11y ago
    What? "America plays the proxy war game too. How much of ISIS armament is of American origin?". America's proxy war involvement is well known, but you picked the most ridiculous conflict that has nothing to do with this. Your argument is ISIS equipment being American. What? That's because equipment given to Iraqis being captured, a very well documented problem. Your implication is the most ridiculous thing I have read in this thread so far.
jgome 11y ago
Let me add to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_r... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_interventions_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_interventions_of_the_... If you look at history, China looks way more pacifist than the US. In fact, one has to wonder why the US govt. and media keep spreading fear about China... Perhaps the US govt./media are scared of some country doing to them the exact same things they do and have done to other countries.

sildur 11y ago

China invaded Tibet on false pretenses.

throwawayaway 11y ago
What's the bodycount? Incidentally, may I ask how far back in history you are going, is it something more recent than this: > In October 1950, the People's Liberation Army entered the Tibetan area of Chamdo, defeating sporadic resistance from the Tibetan army. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet#1950_to_present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet#1950_to_prese... This? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tibetan_unrest#Casualties_and_fatalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tibetan_unrest#Casualties...
- kjs3 11y ago
  How many bodies do you need before you care?
  - throwawayaway 11y ago
    1, I want to compare atrocities. You need numbers for that.
    - kjs3 11y ago
      You mean like "Only 10,000 of your people died. 20,000 of theirs did, so your atrocity isn't as important as theirs."? Helluva world view.
      - throwawayaway 11y ago
        I certainly think 20,000 deaths is worse than 10,000 deaths yes. I believe there is a much greater discrepancy than 2x, between the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and ongoing drone strikes inflicting civilian casualties, and Chinese incursions into Tibet. That's not to say I support China in their incursions into Tibet. I am very sympathetic to those who have had atrocities committed towards them. I do think however that the scale of a crime is important, and can be compared. With the numbers you can make meaningful comparisons. This person committed two murders, this person committed one. To suggest all atrocities are equal is weak.
        kjs3 11y ago
        To suggest all atrocities are equal is weak. To suggest they aren't is morally bankrupt. Keeping score over which atrocity is worse than the other and using that as a benchmark of give-a-fuck is suffering porn, and engaging in it is a defect in your humanity. [edit for redundancy]
        throwawayaway 11y ago
        Well we have completely opposing views in that case. I think if you cannot compare atrocities or crimes you are suffering from sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies (i.e. morally bankrupt) but I say that as an armchair psychologist, much like you say what you say as an armchair moralist. I think given any number of examples you would gladly compare crimes and atrocities and quite easily state which you think is worse. Society does this also, you can usually find it expressed in the sentencing for crimes.
        kjs3 11y ago
        I think if you cannot compare atrocities or crimes you are suffering from sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies So because I don't tier atrocities into more or less horrifying based on numbers and treat them all as a negative means I have "sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies"? Doesn't take much to understand you don't know what those words mean, including moralist and psychologist.
- sildur 11y ago
  Using your logic, spraying a country with mustard gas is better than killing half of their citizens, as the body count is smaller.
  - throwawayaway 11y ago
    Which crime is worse is the question you should be asking, instead of trying to invert the interpretation for reasons unknown.

adventured 11y ago

Iran has been murdering people through their terrorist proxies, such as Hezbollah, for decades. Their leaders can hardly stop talking about wanting to genocide the entire nation of Israel. China invaded, annexed, and exterminated the culture of Tibet - a nation four times the size of France geographically. China is also desperate to take Taiwan - a nation that wants absolutely nothing to do with being owned by China - openly admitting they'd be willing to murder large numbers of people through war to annex it. China is building artificial islands in the South China Sea, while routinely threatening neighbors and trying to claim vast water borders that clearly don't belong to them. China has also fought numerous wars with India and Vietnam, two of their largest neighbors. While having countless militaristic confrontations about land borders with basically all of their neighbors. That continues to this day with Japan, Vietnam, India, Philippines, Malaysia, etc. It'd be as though the US took its military, stacked threatening pieces of it on the border with Canada, and started proclaiming ownership of large parts of their border territories.

throwawayaway 11y ago
Your Iran point: How many civilians have Israel taken out in the recent past? America plays the proxy war game too. How much of ISIS armament is of American origin? How many civilians have ISIS taken out? I guess if you are from the country, it's less likely that you would outraged by your own military's actions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili... Thanks for the information regarding China's belligerence, but Chinese citizens might be more sympathetic to that. Much like any nationalists being sympathetic to their own nation's causes. Once you suggest a place as an alternative place to live, it's worth thinking about what a person who moves there would be supporting financially with their taxes.
- vchynarov 11y ago
  What? "America plays the proxy war game too. How much of ISIS armament is of American origin?". America's proxy war involvement is well known, but you picked the most ridiculous conflict that has nothing to do with this. Your argument is ISIS equipment being American. What? That's because equipment given to Iraqis being captured, a very well documented problem. Your implication is the most ridiculous thing I have read in this thread so far.

jgome 11y ago

Let me add to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_r... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_interventions_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_interventions_of_the_... If you look at history, China looks way more pacifist than the US. In fact, one has to wonder why the US govt. and media keep spreading fear about China... Perhaps the US govt./media are scared of some country doing to them the exact same things they do and have done to other countries.