5 ms·

As a tangentaly related point... Has any visual programming language ever been successful? The guys at Epic are really pushing their blueprint system, and a l

As a tangentaly related point... Has any visual programming language ever been successful? The guys at Epic are really pushing their blueprint system, and a lot of people like it... but its inherantly tied to the engine.

ics 11y ago
LabVIEW's graphical language G has been around for a while and is widely used for certain kinds of things. Enough people hate it to consider it successful.
- maaku 11y ago
  > Enough people hate it to consider it successful. That is a very insightful quote.
panic 11y ago
Max/MSP is pretty widely used for music and audio: https://cycling74.com/products/max/ https://cycling74.com/products/max/
- jweir 11y ago
  And VVVV http://vvvv.org http://vvvv.org > vvvv is a hybrid visual/textual live-programming environment for easy prototyping and development. It is designed to facilitate the handling of large media environments with physical interfaces, real-time motion graphics, audio and video that can interact with many users simultaneously.
foofoo55 11y ago
Depends what you mean by successful. Most industrial Programmable Logic Controllers (PLCs) can be programmed with a visual language, typically function block diagrams. The blocks are then functions and the lines represent a data value and not necessarily the direction of program flow. Once you want to get beyond basic flow control and into things like loops or state machines, then one would typically make a custom block or entire program using structure text, or some variant of C, etc.
blup 11y ago
Grasshopper (Rhino) is quite successful for architecture and 3D modeling, but its also tied to the engine. Also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7274674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7274674 for an exhaustive list.
smt88 11y ago
> The guys at Epic The people at Epic. Sorry, I know it's annoying, but sexism in computing isn't going to change if we don't pay attention to the language we use.
- wildlogic 11y ago
  I don't think 'guys' just refers to males.
  - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
    Guy Fawkes was male, and there is a feminine equivalent gals, but I think guys is slowing moving over into gender neutral territory (it wasn't when I was a kid, but times change).
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - david-given 11y ago
    It's a cultural thing and varies hugely depending on which country you're in. In my bit of Britain it's quite common for groups of women to refer to themselves as 'guys'.
  - smt88 11y ago
    In the US, it depends heavily on context. "The guys" or "those guys" almost always implies males. Same with any singular usage of the word "guy". "You guys" is the only usage that can refer to a mixed-gender group. Obviously, that isn't how GP used it.
- delish 11y ago
  I agree, both generally and specifically. Supporting your argument is Bell Labs' `sexist`[0], a commmandline tool, part of the Writer's Workbench. http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist A relevant section from its man page: [When given a file as input, sexist prints alternatives] using neutral terms instead of sex-related terms. For example "business executive" could easily replace the stereotypic "businessman." To me, "businessman" can be gender neutral just as "guys" can be gender neutral. Today we[1] don't use "businessman" for the same reason that in some years we won't use "guys"; it still gives a biased-towards-men picture of people. [0] I'm citing Bell Labs because they're prestigious and respected by HN. [1] Because I'm trying to influence the vox populi, I'm using "we" imprecisely. I hope that those who disagree with me follow my argument even though I'm not speaking for them.
digi_owl 11y ago
Lego still use a graphical language for their Mindstorm kits, iirc.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Which AFAIK is LabVIEW, btw.
edent 11y ago
Scratch from MIT. Ok, you're not going to write an OS in it - but for building games it's amazing. I use it to teach kids coding - some of the work they produce is astounding.
- analog31 11y ago
  I have to laugh because my son wrote an "OS" in Scratch. It consisted of a splash screen, log-in dialog, a menu to choose one or two little apps to run, and a BSOD.
  - edent 11y ago
    Ha! Ship it
Procedural 11y ago
Everyone in VFX industry successfully uses visual programming in production: see programs like Nuke, SideFX Houdini, RealFlow, Fabric Engine, etc. > but its inherantly tied to the engine There's no successful (like C in text-based programming) visual programming environment for general-purpose programming at the moment.

ics 11y ago

LabVIEW's graphical language G has been around for a while and is widely used for certain kinds of things. Enough people hate it to consider it successful.

maaku 11y ago
> Enough people hate it to consider it successful. That is a very insightful quote.

panic 11y ago

Max/MSP is pretty widely used for music and audio: https://cycling74.com/products/max/ https://cycling74.com/products/max/

jweir 11y ago
And VVVV http://vvvv.org http://vvvv.org > vvvv is a hybrid visual/textual live-programming environment for easy prototyping and development. It is designed to facilitate the handling of large media environments with physical interfaces, real-time motion graphics, audio and video that can interact with many users simultaneously.

foofoo55 11y ago

Depends what you mean by successful. Most industrial Programmable Logic Controllers (PLCs) can be programmed with a visual language, typically function block diagrams. The blocks are then functions and the lines represent a data value and not necessarily the direction of program flow. Once you want to get beyond basic flow control and into things like loops or state machines, then one would typically make a custom block or entire program using structure text, or some variant of C, etc.

blup 11y ago

Grasshopper (Rhino) is quite successful for architecture and 3D modeling, but its also tied to the engine. Also see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7274674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7274674 for an exhaustive list.

smt88 11y ago

> The guys at Epic The people at Epic. Sorry, I know it's annoying, but sexism in computing isn't going to change if we don't pay attention to the language we use.

wildlogic 11y ago
I don't think 'guys' just refers to males.
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  Guy Fawkes was male, and there is a feminine equivalent gals, but I think guys is slowing moving over into gender neutral territory (it wasn't when I was a kid, but times change).
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- david-given 11y ago
  It's a cultural thing and varies hugely depending on which country you're in. In my bit of Britain it's quite common for groups of women to refer to themselves as 'guys'.
- smt88 11y ago
  In the US, it depends heavily on context. "The guys" or "those guys" almost always implies males. Same with any singular usage of the word "guy". "You guys" is the only usage that can refer to a mixed-gender group. Obviously, that isn't how GP used it.
delish 11y ago
I agree, both generally and specifically. Supporting your argument is Bell Labs' `sexist`[0], a commmandline tool, part of the Writer's Workbench. http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist A relevant section from its man page: [When given a file as input, sexist prints alternatives] using neutral terms instead of sex-related terms. For example "business executive" could easily replace the stereotypic "businessman." To me, "businessman" can be gender neutral just as "guys" can be gender neutral. Today we[1] don't use "businessman" for the same reason that in some years we won't use "guys"; it still gives a biased-towards-men picture of people. [0] I'm citing Bell Labs because they're prestigious and respected by HN. [1] Because I'm trying to influence the vox populi, I'm using "we" imprecisely. I hope that those who disagree with me follow my argument even though I'm not speaking for them.

digi_owl 11y ago

Lego still use a graphical language for their Mindstorm kits, iirc.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
Which AFAIK is LabVIEW, btw.

edent 11y ago

Scratch from MIT. Ok, you're not going to write an OS in it - but for building games it's amazing. I use it to teach kids coding - some of the work they produce is astounding.

analog31 11y ago
I have to laugh because my son wrote an "OS" in Scratch. It consisted of a splash screen, log-in dialog, a menu to choose one or two little apps to run, and a BSOD.
- edent 11y ago
  Ha! Ship it

Procedural 11y ago

Everyone in VFX industry successfully uses visual programming in production: see programs like Nuke, SideFX Houdini, RealFlow, Fabric Engine, etc. > but its inherantly tied to the engine There's no successful (like C in text-based programming) visual programming environment for general-purpose programming at the moment.