4 ms·

Are there any resources you might recommend to others who have fallen down that same kind of path?

by _rs 11y ago

steverb 11y ago
I had the same issue. TOtally quit doing homework in the 5th grade, coasted through highschool (mostly) with a 3.5. Fortunately (for me) I had a not so good HS Counselor who I never met and who never explained to me that it was possible to go to college without having rich parents. So I joined the Army straight out of high school, and that's where I learned how to work my ass off. Not mentally so much, but in general how to have an expectation of myself that I should always keep pushing myself to do better. That was 25 years ago mind you. Your mileage will definitely vary.
- jackmaney 11y ago
  When I was in academia, some of the students I rooted for the most were non-traditional students, especially those who were former/current military. None of that "b...but, when will I ever use this in REAL LIFE! Waaahhh!" or "will this be on the test?". Just a willingness to work their ass off.
  - 6stringmerc 11y ago
    When I was in academia, some of the most intolerable time wasting, tangential and selfish people were non-traditional students taking courses because they had the means and time to do so...just sayin'
    - jackmaney 11y ago
      I guess that could be a function of one's discipline. I was a mathematician, so there were very few attempts at time-wasting and being tangential (and when there were, a quick "That's a great question, but it's a bit far afield from what we need to cover right now. I'd love to discuss it during office hours, though" would defuse the situation).
  - bigtunacan 11y ago
    Personally I find the, "Will this be used in real life?" question a very important one that sadly isn't answered frequently enough. There is a disconnect between educators and students who are there to prepare to enter the workforce.
    - jackmaney 11y ago
      That's the problem: college does not--nor should it--solely exist for preparation to enter the workforce. That's why we need a resurgence of trade programs.
      - marcosdumay 11y ago
        Anyway, for every course that is not Math, everything you learn was created for a reason (make that a "most things you learn" for Math). Yet, before one enters an university, teachers almost universally refuse to answer this question.
    - nitrogen 11y ago
      Everything will be used in real life somewhere. Also, education is about more than just the immediate facts being presented. Its primary purpose is (or should be) developing the ability to recognize connections between subjects, events, and ideas, and use those connections as the common language of society for communicating and understanding. The lack of this intended benefit of education is what allows talking heads to polarize society by shouting past each other.
tcfunk 11y ago
I can't say that I know of much off-hand...for me the turning point was actually failing a few classes. That seemed to finally give me the wakeup call I needed to light a fire under me, so to speak. Not that I recommend failing, per se, that's just the way things ended up for me. One thing that certainly helped me was to take a slight detour from my graduation path for a semester to take classes that genuinely interested me. I found that taking a few courses where I was more willing to put time in out of sheer interest helped hone those same habits for classes which maybe were less interesting / more tedious. Hope this helps, and best of luck!
v_ee 11y ago
For me this behaviour worked all the way until my bachelor's thesis. That was the first time I faced difficulty, and I didn't know how to deal with that. I'm still recovering from the problem but I've been able to identify some solutions. 1. Choose your peer group carefully. Your values will shift to those of your peers. In high school my friends were the smart kids. At first we were highly motivated and competitive and earned high marks, but that didn't sit well with the rest of the class. We got excluded for being try-hards. Therefore the new game was to pass the class with the least amount of effort. When I went to college I associated with similar people. It was cool to pass with the least amount of effort. Make friends who have values that you want to have: people who value effort, not talent. 2. Don't fall for the incentives trap. Your success gets measured by passing classes and getting good grades. It's natural for humans to game the incentives. Your motivation shifts to doing well on the incentives. Instead view passing the class as a bare minimum. The goal is learning, the test should be an easy byproduct. 3. Learn how to handle failure in a healthy way, otherwise you'll find yourself avoiding things that may lead to failure. When failure does come, try to stay positive. Don't try to keep up appearance of success. Be open about your failures. Find somebody you can talk to 100% openly; a friend, your parents, your gf/bf, a sibling. Make sure that your self worth isn't reliant on your success. 4. Don't rely on willpower. Using willpower is a losing battle. Design your life so that you don't need to rely on it. Set up meetings to do your homework with friends. Build good habits. Beware of slippery slopes. Now you're skipping class once, in a year you're skipping class entirely.

Are there any resources you might recommend to others who have fallen down that same kind of path?

by _rs 11y ago

Are there any resources you might recommend to others who have fallen down that same kind of path?

I had the same issue. TOtally quit doing homework in the 5th grade, coasted through highschool (mostly) with a 3.5. Fortunately (for me) I had a not so good HS Counselor who I never met and who never explained to me that it was possible to go to college without having rich parents. So I joined the Army straight out of high school, and that's where I learned how to work my ass off. Not mentally so much, but in general how to have an expectation of myself that I should always keep pushing myself to do better. That was 25 years ago mind you. Your mileage will definitely vary.

jackmaney 11y ago
When I was in academia, some of the students I rooted for the most were non-traditional students, especially those who were former/current military. None of that "b...but, when will I ever use this in REAL LIFE! Waaahhh!" or "will this be on the test?". Just a willingness to work their ass off.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  When I was in academia, some of the most intolerable time wasting, tangential and selfish people were non-traditional students taking courses because they had the means and time to do so...just sayin'
  - jackmaney 11y ago
    I guess that could be a function of one's discipline. I was a mathematician, so there were very few attempts at time-wasting and being tangential (and when there were, a quick "That's a great question, but it's a bit far afield from what we need to cover right now. I'd love to discuss it during office hours, though" would defuse the situation).
- bigtunacan 11y ago
  Personally I find the, "Will this be used in real life?" question a very important one that sadly isn't answered frequently enough. There is a disconnect between educators and students who are there to prepare to enter the workforce.
  - jackmaney 11y ago
    That's the problem: college does not--nor should it--solely exist for preparation to enter the workforce. That's why we need a resurgence of trade programs.
    - marcosdumay 11y ago
      Anyway, for every course that is not Math, everything you learn was created for a reason (make that a "most things you learn" for Math). Yet, before one enters an university, teachers almost universally refuse to answer this question.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    Everything will be used in real life somewhere. Also, education is about more than just the immediate facts being presented. Its primary purpose is (or should be) developing the ability to recognize connections between subjects, events, and ideas, and use those connections as the common language of society for communicating and understanding. The lack of this intended benefit of education is what allows talking heads to polarize society by shouting past each other.

tcfunk 11y ago

I can't say that I know of much off-hand...for me the turning point was actually failing a few classes. That seemed to finally give me the wakeup call I needed to light a fire under me, so to speak. Not that I recommend failing, per se, that's just the way things ended up for me. One thing that certainly helped me was to take a slight detour from my graduation path for a semester to take classes that genuinely interested me. I found that taking a few courses where I was more willing to put time in out of sheer interest helped hone those same habits for classes which maybe were less interesting / more tedious. Hope this helps, and best of luck!

v_ee 11y ago

For me this behaviour worked all the way until my bachelor's thesis. That was the first time I faced difficulty, and I didn't know how to deal with that. I'm still recovering from the problem but I've been able to identify some solutions. 1. Choose your peer group carefully. Your values will shift to those of your peers. In high school my friends were the smart kids. At first we were highly motivated and competitive and earned high marks, but that didn't sit well with the rest of the class. We got excluded for being try-hards. Therefore the new game was to pass the class with the least amount of effort. When I went to college I associated with similar people. It was cool to pass with the least amount of effort. Make friends who have values that you want to have: people who value effort, not talent. 2. Don't fall for the incentives trap. Your success gets measured by passing classes and getting good grades. It's natural for humans to game the incentives. Your motivation shifts to doing well on the incentives. Instead view passing the class as a bare minimum. The goal is learning, the test should be an easy byproduct. 3. Learn how to handle failure in a healthy way, otherwise you'll find yourself avoiding things that may lead to failure. When failure does come, try to stay positive. Don't try to keep up appearance of success. Be open about your failures. Find somebody you can talk to 100% openly; a friend, your parents, your gf/bf, a sibling. Make sure that your self worth isn't reliant on your success. 4. Don't rely on willpower. Using willpower is a losing battle. Design your life so that you don't need to rely on it. Set up meetings to do your homework with friends. Build good habits. Beware of slippery slopes. Now you're skipping class once, in a year you're skipping class entirely.