12 ms·

Abandoning the Work I Hated

101 points by aspanda 11y ago

searine 11y ago
>Robert Markowitz is working on a memoir. Thriller of the century.
- patkai 11y ago
  Wisdom and happiness are often boring (try reading the meditations of Marcus Aurelius, I loved it but occasionally yawned). "Success" at any cost, extremes, pain, murder, 168 hour code sprints are more thrilling.
  - skrebbel 11y ago
    > .., 168 hour code sprints are more thrilling. "So then I downed the fifth Red Bull that hour and wondered whether I better change that for loop into a while loop because the first operand was empty anyway." Can't wait for the novel!
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
justin_mathew 11y ago
An inspiration.
nether 11y ago
So how does this jive with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10095776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10095776, which states that suffering can lead to a more meaningful and selfless life?
- patkai 11y ago
  This may be a good theory question, but in your personal pursuit of happiness would you rely on a blog post or an intelligent sounding reply? :)
- javert 11y ago
  It doesn't, because that article (the one you link to) is hopelessly confused.
- perrywky 11y ago
  he found no meaning being a lawyer, but he found creativity and love being a kids musician. Suffering leads to nothing, it's the meaning leads you through suffering.
- a_bonobo 11y ago
  I think it's implied in this OP that the author did not see any meaning in his lawyer job, there's nothing "bigger than him" he's working for, just making a lot of money keeping actual criminals out of prison. There's no "bigger" purpose in that. As a party clown/musician there is purpose - he can make kids happy, he knows that "something in his future is expected of him", his work is extremely meaningful to the kids, he catches glimpses of that (whether he actually understands that is hard to say, he'd have to be able to 100% become a child to see the child's point of view).
  - collyw 11y ago
    "just making a lot of money keeping actual criminals out of prison". If the defendants were not found guilty then they are not "criminals". Unless you were in court then you really ought not to judge. (Though I am aware the the American justice system is probably way less perfect than it claims to be).
    - angdis 11y ago
      It is perfectly fine to judge. Having been a juror in criminal cases involving repeat offenders and lived in cities with crime problems, I can tell you that actual criminals being found "not guilty" or guilty and given probation (nothing) is MORE common than justice being served. The system is comically far from perfect.
      - dghf 11y ago
        Can you tell us how you know that some people found not guilty really were guilty? Was it a case of the jury thinking that the accused was more likely guilty than not, but there was still reasonable doubt? Or did the accused admit to an act which many laypeople would consider a crime, but then got acquitted on a technicality? Or were you privy to information and insight denied to your fellow jurors?
        frobozz 11y ago
        > repeat offenders ... actual criminals being found "not guilty" One does not have to be guilty of the crime for which one is being tried, to be a criminal. Regardless of the result, if a repeat offender is on trial, then there is a criminal in the dock. If said repeat offender is found not guilty, then, regardless of actual guilt of the offence in question, a criminal has been found "not guilty". However, it would be appropriate to take angdis to task on the claim that this is "MORE common than justice being served", as that would require one to chart the difference between actual guilt and verdict for a significant majority of trials. That would be very tricky information to come by.
- toyg 11y ago
  In a way he did suffer, by renouncing financial security and steady employment, in order to achieve a more meaningful life.
esaym 11y ago
Thank you, this was a good read. I really needed it right now.
mikehollinger 11y ago
I know the feeling; I've had some great jobs and some bad jobs in my career (albeit "only" 10 years as a professional). The most fun ones were energizing and are (to be honest) the things I seek out when looking for a new opportunity. The #1 thing that I ask when I look at a new job now is "Will I have fun?" #2 is "Is this good for me?" I'm still chasing after 2 different feelings: 1. Working with a couple of colleagues to finish an integration, finishing it, then booking a last-minute tee time to go play golf in celebration. It was a rewarding moment. 2. Getting together with teammates every couple of days for "Halo-thirty," where we'd break, get together in the afternoons for some halo3 in our teamroom, goof off for a bit, then get back to work. That team was remarkably-fun to be in and around. I've actually found it a bit liberating now that I know what i'm looking for. In certain contexts at work I speak my mind more freely, decline or accept certain assignments, etc, and Nothing Bad Has Happened (yet).
toothbrush 11y ago
While i wouldn't personally become a clown (matter of preference), i really admire this guy's courage. I frequently think about upping and leaving the security of a cushy job, and it's a lot easier said than done. Freedom is scary!
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  nah, it isn't. just the first step towards it is hardest. each next one is more and more simple, but we tend to create mental barriers to protect our comfort zone, maybe remnant from times when life was more about plain old survival
  - gunsofbrixton 11y ago
    uh yes, it is.
- kagamine 11y ago
  > While i wouldn't personally become a clown For some of us there isn't a choice. sad clown face
ommunist 11y ago
If this is true, he is one of the most courageous guys in Americas.
- marincounty 11y ago
  Becoming a lawyer is different than let's say becoming a doctor. The lawyers I know barely make a living. The profession is not the ticket to "the good life", like it was in the 50's. I don't know what school he graduated from. Why he ended up as a criminal attorney? How good/ethical of an attorney he was? (I throw in ethical because it's not judged by the typical client, like I feel it should? Maybe, their really isn't a good way to judge a person ethics?) Anyway, he made a life change. He can always go back to law, so in reality it's not that heroic of an act. He still has his degree, and passed the bar in his state. He definetly has a fallback. A fallback most of us don't have? It's very common to lawyers to pass the bar, and never practice law.
  - ommunist 11y ago
    He cannot go back. Competition will immediately portray him in local press as a clown.
chkuendig 11y ago
In case the end of the article got you as curious as me, this is the guy's page: http://www.movingtothebeat.net/about-robert.html http://www.movingtothebeat.net/about-robert.html
- tzs 11y ago
  The picture at the top right in the block of pictures on the left side says it all.
madaxe_again 11y ago
Following in the footsteps of Herschel Krustofski... good for him.
616c 11y ago
I have a kid. And that is the only reason I do not abandon my pointless work. Anyone like this do it, and survive? I would love to see more motivational stories. Those who transitioned to professional clown work appreciated!
- traduz 11y ago
  I just switched jobs because of my daughter. Left a job that I liked but didn't pay very well so I could stop having to work 2 shifts. I'm a programmer btw. It drives me nuts everyday, but this keeps me going https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Simpsons6x13.jpg/235px-Simpsons6x13.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Simpson...
- j_s 11y ago
  I'd recommend asking for all stores - both successes and failures. It's most helpful if you have the full picture!
- geebee 11y ago
  This is a huge issue. One you have kids, it becomes far more difficult to walk away from your income, even for a transitional period. Another complicating factor is health care. I'm always interested in these stories, kids or none, but I think it changes the equation dramatically. Like you, I'd really like to read more stories about people who did this with the additional obligation of supporting children.
  - eevilspock 11y ago
    Perhaps having a kid should motivate you more. Can I myself in the mirror in the morning? But also, can I look my kid in the eye and tell her to do the right thing, while not doing so myself? And what are you teaching your child by financing better education or better healthcare for her through a job that may be increasing inequality for other children, thereby reducing the quality of life, education and healthcare for them? I'm not saying those are the choices you are making. But on the other hand, a lot of people are but cognitive dossonance prevents them from seeing that. Lookup "The Banality of Systemic Evil" and "Matthew Effect" for more thoughts.
jqm 11y ago
Hmmm... believe I'd actually rather be a lawyer than be in a clown suit surrounded by bratty spoiled germy kids.... Guess it takes all kinds.

101 points by aspanda 11y ago

searine 11y ago

>Robert Markowitz is working on a memoir. Thriller of the century.

patkai 11y ago
Wisdom and happiness are often boring (try reading the meditations of Marcus Aurelius, I loved it but occasionally yawned). "Success" at any cost, extremes, pain, murder, 168 hour code sprints are more thrilling.
- skrebbel 11y ago
  > .., 168 hour code sprints are more thrilling. "So then I downed the fifth Red Bull that hour and wondered whether I better change that for loop into a while loop because the first operand was empty anyway." Can't wait for the novel!
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

justin_mathew 11y ago

An inspiration.

nether 11y ago

So how does this jive with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10095776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10095776, which states that suffering can lead to a more meaningful and selfless life?

patkai 11y ago
This may be a good theory question, but in your personal pursuit of happiness would you rely on a blog post or an intelligent sounding reply? :)
javert 11y ago
It doesn't, because that article (the one you link to) is hopelessly confused.
perrywky 11y ago
he found no meaning being a lawyer, but he found creativity and love being a kids musician. Suffering leads to nothing, it's the meaning leads you through suffering.
a_bonobo 11y ago
I think it's implied in this OP that the author did not see any meaning in his lawyer job, there's nothing "bigger than him" he's working for, just making a lot of money keeping actual criminals out of prison. There's no "bigger" purpose in that. As a party clown/musician there is purpose - he can make kids happy, he knows that "something in his future is expected of him", his work is extremely meaningful to the kids, he catches glimpses of that (whether he actually understands that is hard to say, he'd have to be able to 100% become a child to see the child's point of view).
- collyw 11y ago
  "just making a lot of money keeping actual criminals out of prison". If the defendants were not found guilty then they are not "criminals". Unless you were in court then you really ought not to judge. (Though I am aware the the American justice system is probably way less perfect than it claims to be).
  - angdis 11y ago
    It is perfectly fine to judge. Having been a juror in criminal cases involving repeat offenders and lived in cities with crime problems, I can tell you that actual criminals being found "not guilty" or guilty and given probation (nothing) is MORE common than justice being served. The system is comically far from perfect.
    - dghf 11y ago
      Can you tell us how you know that some people found not guilty really were guilty? Was it a case of the jury thinking that the accused was more likely guilty than not, but there was still reasonable doubt? Or did the accused admit to an act which many laypeople would consider a crime, but then got acquitted on a technicality? Or were you privy to information and insight denied to your fellow jurors?
      - frobozz 11y ago
        > repeat offenders ... actual criminals being found "not guilty" One does not have to be guilty of the crime for which one is being tried, to be a criminal. Regardless of the result, if a repeat offender is on trial, then there is a criminal in the dock. If said repeat offender is found not guilty, then, regardless of actual guilt of the offence in question, a criminal has been found "not guilty". However, it would be appropriate to take angdis to task on the claim that this is "MORE common than justice being served", as that would require one to chart the difference between actual guilt and verdict for a significant majority of trials. That would be very tricky information to come by.
toyg 11y ago
In a way he did suffer, by renouncing financial security and steady employment, in order to achieve a more meaningful life.

esaym 11y ago

Thank you, this was a good read. I really needed it right now.

mikehollinger 11y ago

I know the feeling; I've had some great jobs and some bad jobs in my career (albeit "only" 10 years as a professional). The most fun ones were energizing and are (to be honest) the things I seek out when looking for a new opportunity. The #1 thing that I ask when I look at a new job now is "Will I have fun?" #2 is "Is this good for me?" I'm still chasing after 2 different feelings: 1. Working with a couple of colleagues to finish an integration, finishing it, then booking a last-minute tee time to go play golf in celebration. It was a rewarding moment. 2. Getting together with teammates every couple of days for "Halo-thirty," where we'd break, get together in the afternoons for some halo3 in our teamroom, goof off for a bit, then get back to work. That team was remarkably-fun to be in and around. I've actually found it a bit liberating now that I know what i'm looking for. In certain contexts at work I speak my mind more freely, decline or accept certain assignments, etc, and Nothing Bad Has Happened (yet).

toothbrush 11y ago

While i wouldn't personally become a clown (matter of preference), i really admire this guy's courage. I frequently think about upping and leaving the security of a cushy job, and it's a lot easier said than done. Freedom is scary!

saiya-jin 11y ago
nah, it isn't. just the first step towards it is hardest. each next one is more and more simple, but we tend to create mental barriers to protect our comfort zone, maybe remnant from times when life was more about plain old survival
- gunsofbrixton 11y ago
  uh yes, it is.
kagamine 11y ago
> While i wouldn't personally become a clown For some of us there isn't a choice. sad clown face

ommunist 11y ago

If this is true, he is one of the most courageous guys in Americas.

marincounty 11y ago
Becoming a lawyer is different than let's say becoming a doctor. The lawyers I know barely make a living. The profession is not the ticket to "the good life", like it was in the 50's. I don't know what school he graduated from. Why he ended up as a criminal attorney? How good/ethical of an attorney he was? (I throw in ethical because it's not judged by the typical client, like I feel it should? Maybe, their really isn't a good way to judge a person ethics?) Anyway, he made a life change. He can always go back to law, so in reality it's not that heroic of an act. He still has his degree, and passed the bar in his state. He definetly has a fallback. A fallback most of us don't have? It's very common to lawyers to pass the bar, and never practice law.
- ommunist 11y ago
  He cannot go back. Competition will immediately portray him in local press as a clown.

chkuendig 11y ago

In case the end of the article got you as curious as me, this is the guy's page: http://www.movingtothebeat.net/about-robert.html http://www.movingtothebeat.net/about-robert.html

tzs 11y ago
The picture at the top right in the block of pictures on the left side says it all.

madaxe_again 11y ago

Following in the footsteps of Herschel Krustofski... good for him.

616c 11y ago

I have a kid. And that is the only reason I do not abandon my pointless work. Anyone like this do it, and survive? I would love to see more motivational stories. Those who transitioned to professional clown work appreciated!

traduz 11y ago
I just switched jobs because of my daughter. Left a job that I liked but didn't pay very well so I could stop having to work 2 shifts. I'm a programmer btw. It drives me nuts everyday, but this keeps me going https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Simpsons6x13.jpg/235px-Simpsons6x13.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Simpson...
j_s 11y ago
I'd recommend asking for all stores - both successes and failures. It's most helpful if you have the full picture!
geebee 11y ago
This is a huge issue. One you have kids, it becomes far more difficult to walk away from your income, even for a transitional period. Another complicating factor is health care. I'm always interested in these stories, kids or none, but I think it changes the equation dramatically. Like you, I'd really like to read more stories about people who did this with the additional obligation of supporting children.
- eevilspock 11y ago
  Perhaps having a kid should motivate you more. Can I myself in the mirror in the morning? But also, can I look my kid in the eye and tell her to do the right thing, while not doing so myself? And what are you teaching your child by financing better education or better healthcare for her through a job that may be increasing inequality for other children, thereby reducing the quality of life, education and healthcare for them? I'm not saying those are the choices you are making. But on the other hand, a lot of people are but cognitive dossonance prevents them from seeing that. Lookup "The Banality of Systemic Evil" and "Matthew Effect" for more thoughts.

jqm 11y ago

Hmmm... believe I'd actually rather be a lawyer than be in a clown suit surrounded by bratty spoiled germy kids.... Guess it takes all kinds.