3 ms·

It's not that different. The original research into productivity is from that era, and that's where the 50 hour max came from. Yes, you can keep making widgets

by bonaldi 11y ago

It's not that different. The original research into productivity is from that era, and that's where the 50 hour max came from. Yes, you can keep making widgets, but you need a new shift of people to do so. That would be an interesting thing for software to explore — a night shift that came in and hacked on your code overnight. Like pair programming, only not.

bpyne 11y ago
I read an article from the early 2K's about Oracle developing its 10g database line. It had development teams strategically positioned through the globe so that development could continue 24 hours/day. I never saw a followup article about the effect on the database quality or issues around handing off a code base from team-to-team multiple times a day. I also have to wonder if Oracle still develops its software that way.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Judging by the quality of some of the code I had a chance to look at (not the DB), the software was probably a bloated mess :-) That said, continuous development seems to work for open source projects, though typically each module has an owner and other people submit change requests, people don;t just overwrite other developer's code indiscriminately.
biesnecker 11y ago
I know of several financial companies that do that, with software developers on the East Coast, in Europe, and in India.
pjmorris 11y ago
I bet that happens already...sounds like just the kind of thing we could look at empirically on public version control systems.
jazzyk 11y ago
I respectfully disagree, software is very different. Typically, developer's output is (unfortunately) measured by the lines of code written. More often than not, it should be measured by how _few_ lines were written to achieve the desired functionality (including maintainability and scalability, etc) What is so different about software is that you can get from point A to point B (say, write a custom order processing system) in a thousand different ways (overwhelming choice of technology stacks, architectures, etc). But only a couple of solutions would be optimal for the problem at hand. And there are so many factors which influence all the decisions. Another difference: code is just a description of what it does. There is no way to accurately predict performance, for example And don't even get me started on ever-changing requirements ("I know we wanted a 2 story building, but how hard would it be to add 20 more floors?"). You don't change the widget design while on a production line.
- unprepare 11y ago
  I think its more likely that programming is in its 'artisanal age' moving toward its 'industrial revolution' quite quickly. Right now it takes skilled craftspeople to design and build good working code - just as a few hundred years ago it took a master woodworker to create a fine chair or bench or bed. There was a million ways to make a join, a million materials to use (woods, glues, metals, etc), and it took a lot of skill to purposefully decide which tools and materials would best fit the job at hand. This is where software engineering is today. Look at wood working today: There are still extraordinarily skilled craftsmen doing work that is miles ahead of what any machine could produce. Real pieces of artwork, in addition to functional pieces of furniture. But the vast majority of woodworking is done by automation (be that machines or laborers) That is likely the future of software engineering. Because what most people/businesses need out of software is exactly what they need of furniture - they need it to be 'good enough' and to not have to spend a lot of resources fussing over it. With SaaS and thousands of pre-packaged solutions, entire industries are beginning to flip over How long ago was it that to have a website a company would need a webmaster and some developers? How long ago was it that to run email, FTP, website, etc you would need to purchase hardware, and employees to manage that hardware and software? Hell even personal websites - you no longer need to know a word of any programming language in order to spin up your very own website, you can even get 'good enough' layouts from the provided templates. Lets not forget that building websites was (and is) a very real and very lucrative field. It was overtaken by millions of amatuer kids who learned a little html and css and sold websites for a fraction of the cost of hiring professionals. And it worked because businesses want something 'good enough' I;ve said this before but the same thing has/is happened to many other respected fields: Photography travel agent Technical support (call centers, geek squad, etc) I don't really see how software is any different from any other trade. You solve enough major problems until you get to a point where 'good enough' is easily accomplished by automation or laymen. Seems to me that this change is already occurring.

by bonaldi 11y ago

bpyne 11y ago

I read an article from the early 2K's about Oracle developing its 10g database line. It had development teams strategically positioned through the globe so that development could continue 24 hours/day. I never saw a followup article about the effect on the database quality or issues around handing off a code base from team-to-team multiple times a day. I also have to wonder if Oracle still develops its software that way.

jazzyk 11y ago
Judging by the quality of some of the code I had a chance to look at (not the DB), the software was probably a bloated mess :-) That said, continuous development seems to work for open source projects, though typically each module has an owner and other people submit change requests, people don;t just overwrite other developer's code indiscriminately.

biesnecker 11y ago

I know of several financial companies that do that, with software developers on the East Coast, in Europe, and in India.

pjmorris 11y ago

I bet that happens already...sounds like just the kind of thing we could look at empirically on public version control systems.

jazzyk 11y ago

I respectfully disagree, software is very different. Typically, developer's output is (unfortunately) measured by the lines of code written. More often than not, it should be measured by how _few_ lines were written to achieve the desired functionality (including maintainability and scalability, etc) What is so different about software is that you can get from point A to point B (say, write a custom order processing system) in a thousand different ways (overwhelming choice of technology stacks, architectures, etc). But only a couple of solutions would be optimal for the problem at hand. And there are so many factors which influence all the decisions. Another difference: code is just a description of what it does. There is no way to accurately predict performance, for example And don't even get me started on ever-changing requirements ("I know we wanted a 2 story building, but how hard would it be to add 20 more floors?"). You don't change the widget design while on a production line.

unprepare 11y ago
I think its more likely that programming is in its 'artisanal age' moving toward its 'industrial revolution' quite quickly. Right now it takes skilled craftspeople to design and build good working code - just as a few hundred years ago it took a master woodworker to create a fine chair or bench or bed. There was a million ways to make a join, a million materials to use (woods, glues, metals, etc), and it took a lot of skill to purposefully decide which tools and materials would best fit the job at hand. This is where software engineering is today. Look at wood working today: There are still extraordinarily skilled craftsmen doing work that is miles ahead of what any machine could produce. Real pieces of artwork, in addition to functional pieces of furniture. But the vast majority of woodworking is done by automation (be that machines or laborers) That is likely the future of software engineering. Because what most people/businesses need out of software is exactly what they need of furniture - they need it to be 'good enough' and to not have to spend a lot of resources fussing over it. With SaaS and thousands of pre-packaged solutions, entire industries are beginning to flip over How long ago was it that to have a website a company would need a webmaster and some developers? How long ago was it that to run email, FTP, website, etc you would need to purchase hardware, and employees to manage that hardware and software? Hell even personal websites - you no longer need to know a word of any programming language in order to spin up your very own website, you can even get 'good enough' layouts from the provided templates. Lets not forget that building websites was (and is) a very real and very lucrative field. It was overtaken by millions of amatuer kids who learned a little html and css and sold websites for a fraction of the cost of hiring professionals. And it worked because businesses want something 'good enough' I;ve said this before but the same thing has/is happened to many other respected fields: Photography travel agent Technical support (call centers, geek squad, etc) I don't really see how software is any different from any other trade. You solve enough major problems until you get to a point where 'good enough' is easily accomplished by automation or laymen. Seems to me that this change is already occurring.