8 ms·

Not sure if this is the same "breakthrough" https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/yolks-and-shells-improve-rechargeable-batteries-0805 https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015

Not sure if this is the same "breakthrough" https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/yolks-and-shells-improve-rechargeable-batteries-0805 https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/yolks-and-shells-improve-rec... It was also discussed in The Economist this week. Batter tech has been stuck in a rut for a long time so it's great news that better tech is in the way.

iLoch 11y ago
I don't know much about battery tech but I get the feeling that "rut" is actually just their business model. Hard to sell a lot of batteries/phones/etc. that work forever.
- reillyse 11y ago
  I was just chatting to someone about this today. I feel like my "honeymoon" period with my new iphone 6 is coming to an end. 6 months in and I'm starting to have to think about when I charge it. Definitely it's not in Apple's interest to solve this particular problem, especially when (I think) they've deliberately made the battery non-replaceable.
  - henry_vonfire 11y ago
    Well, in my case, I was using a second hand Nexus One for years (almost 3 years if I remember it right) without problems with the battery. I think that if you respect the charging cycles, you make it last longer (I usually wait until 10% of battery left to charge it)
    - piotrkaminski 11y ago
      FYI, waiting until a Li-ion battery is nearly fully discharged before recharging will actually shorten its life by 3-4x compared to recharging when it hits 50%. See: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_li...
      - henry_vonfire 11y ago
        Really? I've heard that by doing that what you are doing is reducing the time the battery will be charged (it's like instead of using 100% of your battery, it set its limit at 50%). I don't have the source where I saw this, sorry.
        piotrkaminski 11y ago
        You may be thinking of the "memory effect" of old NiCad batteries, which indeed needed to be thoroughly discharged before recharging otherwise they'd lose capacity. However, LiIon is a different chemistry, and different rules apply. I don't know of any modern device that still uses NiCad, though I'm sure there's still some legacy niche where they're useful...
    - madez 11y ago
      Do not follow his advice. To lessen the strain on your smartphone battery, keep it between 15% and 90% of charge and don't let it become too hot. Modern batteries are not like the old ones.
  - chubs 11y ago
    You can take it to the apple store to get the battery replaced FWIW
  - swombat 11y ago
    I'm using an iPhone 5S bought almost two years ago, with no battery issues whatsoever (plug in overnight, use all day, don't worry about battery unless an app goes haywire and the phone is running hot for a few hours). My wife is still using her 4S - she also has no issues with the battery. #counter-anecdotes
- nugga 11y ago
  Maybe we will finally get laptop batteries that don't "mysteriously" die after their maximum charge drops to 50% of the original. I'm looking at you lenovo..
tade 11y ago
It's not the same. This is the MIT press release https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/solid-state-rechargeable-batteries-safer-longer-lasting-0817 https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/solid-state-rechargeable-bat...
- jessaustin 11y ago
  This really should be the link for this whole thread. First, it has some actual interesting details. Second, it hasn't been round-tripped through Google Translate.
davnicwil 11y ago
It's been so stuck in a rut, relative to the demands of what we use it for, that it'd seem utterly magical for it to improve dramatically. Imagine being able to use a laptop, or a phone, for days without plugging in. Seems completely impossible now, and my mental model of power usage vs battery drain is so set at this point that I think I'd have a really hard time trusting a vastly better battery to really work, even after seeing it work for a few cycles - I'd always be thinking, can this really be happening? When's it going to fail? Wonder how long it would take for this to go away and just become the new norm? I'd love to look back on this post in a few years and laugh.
- stdbrouw 11y ago
  > Imagine being able to use a laptop, or a phone, for days without plugging in. A Kindle has a battery life of a couple of weeks (30+ hrs active use), but it's actually a mixed blessing. Daily charging is a nightly routine you get used to. Biweekly charging, you just end up forgetting when it's time to charge and don't have any power when you need it.
  - Osmium 11y ago
    > you just end up forgetting when it's time to charge and don't have any power when you need it. This is just a design problem though. The Kindle should warn you when you only have a few days battery (or, say, a hundred page turns) left, or maybe an LED could light up to remind you, and it'd be fine. I say this as a mildly inconvenienced Kindle user myself, because I too forget to charge it...
  - reacweb 11y ago
    I have to charge my electric car daily. If capacity was slightly increased, it would be biweekly. Do you think they should stop research ?
- tedsanders 11y ago
  Battery energy density is hard to improve. Lithium is already the smallest non-gas atom, and we're within an order of magnitude of its absolute limits. Even though it seems like batteries have improved a lot over the last two decades, the vast majority of that is due to electronics that consume less power, not increased battery capacity. That said, cost can still be reduced and cycle life can still be improved. And there are exotic ideas for better batteries too. [1] An article on the progress and limits of batteries: http://www.nature.com/news/the-rechargeable-revolution-a-better-battery-1.14815 http://www.nature.com/news/the-rechargeable-revolution-a-bet... (might be behind a paywall)

iLoch 11y ago

I don't know much about battery tech but I get the feeling that "rut" is actually just their business model. Hard to sell a lot of batteries/phones/etc. that work forever.

reillyse 11y ago
I was just chatting to someone about this today. I feel like my "honeymoon" period with my new iphone 6 is coming to an end. 6 months in and I'm starting to have to think about when I charge it. Definitely it's not in Apple's interest to solve this particular problem, especially when (I think) they've deliberately made the battery non-replaceable.
- henry_vonfire 11y ago
  Well, in my case, I was using a second hand Nexus One for years (almost 3 years if I remember it right) without problems with the battery. I think that if you respect the charging cycles, you make it last longer (I usually wait until 10% of battery left to charge it)
  - piotrkaminski 11y ago
    FYI, waiting until a Li-ion battery is nearly fully discharged before recharging will actually shorten its life by 3-4x compared to recharging when it hits 50%. See: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_li...
    - henry_vonfire 11y ago
      Really? I've heard that by doing that what you are doing is reducing the time the battery will be charged (it's like instead of using 100% of your battery, it set its limit at 50%). I don't have the source where I saw this, sorry.
      - piotrkaminski 11y ago
        You may be thinking of the "memory effect" of old NiCad batteries, which indeed needed to be thoroughly discharged before recharging otherwise they'd lose capacity. However, LiIon is a different chemistry, and different rules apply. I don't know of any modern device that still uses NiCad, though I'm sure there's still some legacy niche where they're useful...
  - madez 11y ago
    Do not follow his advice. To lessen the strain on your smartphone battery, keep it between 15% and 90% of charge and don't let it become too hot. Modern batteries are not like the old ones.
- chubs 11y ago
  You can take it to the apple store to get the battery replaced FWIW
- swombat 11y ago
  I'm using an iPhone 5S bought almost two years ago, with no battery issues whatsoever (plug in overnight, use all day, don't worry about battery unless an app goes haywire and the phone is running hot for a few hours). My wife is still using her 4S - she also has no issues with the battery. #counter-anecdotes
nugga 11y ago
Maybe we will finally get laptop batteries that don't "mysteriously" die after their maximum charge drops to 50% of the original. I'm looking at you lenovo..

tade 11y ago

It's not the same. This is the MIT press release https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/solid-state-rechargeable-batteries-safer-longer-lasting-0817 https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/solid-state-rechargeable-bat...

jessaustin 11y ago
This really should be the link for this whole thread. First, it has some actual interesting details. Second, it hasn't been round-tripped through Google Translate.

davnicwil 11y ago

It's been so stuck in a rut, relative to the demands of what we use it for, that it'd seem utterly magical for it to improve dramatically. Imagine being able to use a laptop, or a phone, for days without plugging in. Seems completely impossible now, and my mental model of power usage vs battery drain is so set at this point that I think I'd have a really hard time trusting a vastly better battery to really work, even after seeing it work for a few cycles - I'd always be thinking, can this really be happening? When's it going to fail? Wonder how long it would take for this to go away and just become the new norm? I'd love to look back on this post in a few years and laugh.

stdbrouw 11y ago
> Imagine being able to use a laptop, or a phone, for days without plugging in. A Kindle has a battery life of a couple of weeks (30+ hrs active use), but it's actually a mixed blessing. Daily charging is a nightly routine you get used to. Biweekly charging, you just end up forgetting when it's time to charge and don't have any power when you need it.
- Osmium 11y ago
  > you just end up forgetting when it's time to charge and don't have any power when you need it. This is just a design problem though. The Kindle should warn you when you only have a few days battery (or, say, a hundred page turns) left, or maybe an LED could light up to remind you, and it'd be fine. I say this as a mildly inconvenienced Kindle user myself, because I too forget to charge it...
- reacweb 11y ago
  I have to charge my electric car daily. If capacity was slightly increased, it would be biweekly. Do you think they should stop research ?
tedsanders 11y ago
Battery energy density is hard to improve. Lithium is already the smallest non-gas atom, and we're within an order of magnitude of its absolute limits. Even though it seems like batteries have improved a lot over the last two decades, the vast majority of that is due to electronics that consume less power, not increased battery capacity. That said, cost can still be reduced and cycle life can still be improved. And there are exotic ideas for better batteries too. [1] An article on the progress and limits of batteries: http://www.nature.com/news/the-rechargeable-revolution-a-better-battery-1.14815 http://www.nature.com/news/the-rechargeable-revolution-a-bet... (might be behind a paywall)