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How does the DMCA stop a tractor owner from replacing a faulty sensor, engine part, or a drive belt? The article implies that the DMCA stops the farmer from fi

How does the DMCA stop a tractor owner from replacing a faulty sensor, engine part, or a drive belt? The article implies that the DMCA stops the farmer from fixing even mechanical components.

bri3d 11y ago
The sensors and engine parts are often "coded" in a way that requires software access to replace - either because they require some sort of calibration to operate, or because they literally have a burned-in serial number which the software checks for a match.
- foofoo55 11y ago
  I write control software for low-volume off-highway machinery, and I have never seen sensor serial numbers used in this manner. Calibration yes, serial numbers no. And lack of calibration just puts things off a bit, but doesn't prevent operation. I suppose if they use CAN communications for their sensors instead of analog then a sensor might need the address set up and possibly the calibration values loaded, but off-the-shelf replacement parts are usually factory-set to the correct address & internal calibration. And I can see how the manufacturer could disable the machine until certain latched fault codes are cleared by a factory tech. I would love to see an analysis of modern machine downtime versus equivalent machines from 10 and 20 years ago. Just imagine if the likes of JD puts all tractor operating parameters in a cloud system, and requires not just Internet access but a login to operate the machine. Not unlike a certain startup from a couple years ago that sold hardware (was it home security?) that required constant cloud access to operate. I have friends with skid-steers who beg me to replace the keyless electronic start & monitoring console with a simple electro-mechanical key and analog gauges.
emeraldd 11y ago
The problem is going to be getting enough information out of the machine to actually diagnose what the underlying problem is. With the belt story, there was nothing wrong with the belt but the computer thought there was. He could have thrown a new belt on it (i.e. throwing money at the problem and try again) but that wouldn't have fixed the problem. Heck, that might have been the first thing he tried. Diagnosing an issue by replacing part after part along the problem chain takes time and gets expensive fast making it impractical for anything really serious.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  But it's not like the farmer is trying to retune the internal tables of his engine controller or override some kind of operation mode. He just wants to get the fault code out of the system. It seems like there's plenty of room for a middle ground here. Deere certainly could have opened up some kind of way for owners to get fault codes out of the system, at least for things that are user-replaceable. Hell, the UI should at least put up that message ("CHECK ENGINE OIL", "BELT BROKEN", etc). But then the owner might not buy the replacement part from Deere, right? Perhaps that's the real motivation here.
  - chinpokomon 11y ago
    But the replacement part and send out the field service technician. Deere wants to own the service contract. As another example, I had a check engine light on my car. It was ~$500 to check the code fault and replace a sensor. If I had my own access to those codes, I could have done the work myself for a fraction of the cost, but the car manufacturer knows that I'm limited in my options. If I want to renew my car tabs, I'll have to pay them and their service technician to do the work. It's a racket.
    - devicenull 11y ago
      > As another example, I had a check engine light on my car. It was ~$500 to check the code fault and replace a sensor. You can get OBD2 readers for not very much money (<$20), which would have let you read the code.
    - sokoloff 11y ago
      That's the reason for the openness of the basic ODB-II protocol. You can buy a sub-$100 code reader that can read all the basic powertrain codes and can reset the MIL. That and 2 minutes of Googling will point you in the right direction generally. My cars haven't seen the inside of a dealer's service bay in over 10 years, other than for warranty or recall work.
      - 11y ago

How does the DMCA stop a tractor owner from replacing a faulty sensor, engine part, or a drive belt? The article implies that the DMCA stops the farmer from fixing even mechanical components.

bri3d 11y ago

The sensors and engine parts are often "coded" in a way that requires software access to replace - either because they require some sort of calibration to operate, or because they literally have a burned-in serial number which the software checks for a match.

foofoo55 11y ago
I write control software for low-volume off-highway machinery, and I have never seen sensor serial numbers used in this manner. Calibration yes, serial numbers no. And lack of calibration just puts things off a bit, but doesn't prevent operation. I suppose if they use CAN communications for their sensors instead of analog then a sensor might need the address set up and possibly the calibration values loaded, but off-the-shelf replacement parts are usually factory-set to the correct address & internal calibration. And I can see how the manufacturer could disable the machine until certain latched fault codes are cleared by a factory tech. I would love to see an analysis of modern machine downtime versus equivalent machines from 10 and 20 years ago. Just imagine if the likes of JD puts all tractor operating parameters in a cloud system, and requires not just Internet access but a login to operate the machine. Not unlike a certain startup from a couple years ago that sold hardware (was it home security?) that required constant cloud access to operate. I have friends with skid-steers who beg me to replace the keyless electronic start & monitoring console with a simple electro-mechanical key and analog gauges.

emeraldd 11y ago

The problem is going to be getting enough information out of the machine to actually diagnose what the underlying problem is. With the belt story, there was nothing wrong with the belt but the computer thought there was. He could have thrown a new belt on it (i.e. throwing money at the problem and try again) but that wouldn't have fixed the problem. Heck, that might have been the first thing he tried. Diagnosing an issue by replacing part after part along the problem chain takes time and gets expensive fast making it impractical for anything really serious.

joezydeco 11y ago
But it's not like the farmer is trying to retune the internal tables of his engine controller or override some kind of operation mode. He just wants to get the fault code out of the system. It seems like there's plenty of room for a middle ground here. Deere certainly could have opened up some kind of way for owners to get fault codes out of the system, at least for things that are user-replaceable. Hell, the UI should at least put up that message ("CHECK ENGINE OIL", "BELT BROKEN", etc). But then the owner might not buy the replacement part from Deere, right? Perhaps that's the real motivation here.
- chinpokomon 11y ago
  But the replacement part and send out the field service technician. Deere wants to own the service contract. As another example, I had a check engine light on my car. It was ~$500 to check the code fault and replace a sensor. If I had my own access to those codes, I could have done the work myself for a fraction of the cost, but the car manufacturer knows that I'm limited in my options. If I want to renew my car tabs, I'll have to pay them and their service technician to do the work. It's a racket.
  - devicenull 11y ago
    > As another example, I had a check engine light on my car. It was ~$500 to check the code fault and replace a sensor. You can get OBD2 readers for not very much money (<$20), which would have let you read the code.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    That's the reason for the openness of the basic ODB-II protocol. You can buy a sub-$100 code reader that can read all the basic powertrain codes and can reset the MIL. That and 2 minutes of Googling will point you in the right direction generally. My cars haven't seen the inside of a dealer's service bay in over 10 years, other than for warranty or recall work.
    - 11y ago