4 ms·

Well that is clearly not true. Thanks to relativity, colonization is very possible in a short time span.

by w0000t 11y ago

zamalek 11y ago
> relativity Good point. Let me rephrase that: a long time from the perspective of the people doing the colonization :)
- w0000t 11y ago
  If by those you mean people who are actually traveling in the star-ships, then it is a short time. It is only a long time for people staying stationary relative to the travelers.
  - zamalek 11y ago
    Am I severely misunderstanding something? Doesn't the warp drive move the ship at e.g. 20c according to the ship's frame of reference? Given that, at 20c it would take the inhabitants of the ship 53 days to reach Alpha Centauri (4 light years). Multiply that by 18000 for the other side of the galaxy (72000 light years): 261 years. You most likely couldn't make that in "one hop" so you'd have some crazy multiplier depending on the maximum travel distance of your drive. Even if you didn't want to travel colonize the other size of the galaxy you'd have to search some 400 billion stars for a habitable planet. That's what I'm saying: once you move past the "local neighborhood" things become quite ridiculous.
    - w0000t 11y ago
      I was referring to sub c speeds and what happens by using real confirmed physics. I didn't realize you were talking about warp drives in that case. As far as I understand from popular science, warp drive doesn't actually move the occupants of the vehicle, it moves the space around the ship so in that case there is no time dilation. It takes the same amount of time for people, in and outside, the ship. If your warp drive is limited to 20c then yes it is a problem, but I don't see why would it have to be limited in the first place. Make it go 10^10c and the problem is solved.
      - zamalek 11y ago
        > I was referring to sub c speeds and what happens by using real confirmed physics. That much so much more sense. In addition to the velocity there would also be time spent completely outside of a gravity well. However, the article is really talking about warp. > Make it go 10^10c and the problem is solved. Too much energy. From what I understand it's exponential - i.e. more energy would be used getting to Alpha Centauri at 10^10c than at 20c. We don't know exactly how to get to 1c in the first place, but we do know that if we could then e.g. 100c would likely be something that would be out of reach. Keep in mind that before White optimized the Alcubierre metric, getting to Pluto (AFAIR) with a warp drive would have required the mass of Jupiter. Getting to Alpha Centauri would have required the mass of the observable universe (which is now down to something with "the mass of Voyager 1"). That's the amount of energy we are talking about even at a pitiful 20c.
        w0000t 11y ago
        > Too much energy. Right, you would need those rare, stable, dilithium crystals.
        zamalek 11y ago
        > Right, you would need those rare, stable, dilithium crystals. The spice must flow. All of this stuff is a massive longshot, whether or not we can do it it's still interesting.

Well that is clearly not true. Thanks to relativity, colonization is very possible in a short time span.

by w0000t 11y ago

Well that is clearly not true. Thanks to relativity, colonization is very possible in a short time span.

zamalek 11y ago

> relativity Good point. Let me rephrase that: a long time from the perspective of the people doing the colonization :)

w0000t 11y ago
If by those you mean people who are actually traveling in the star-ships, then it is a short time. It is only a long time for people staying stationary relative to the travelers.
- zamalek 11y ago
  Am I severely misunderstanding something? Doesn't the warp drive move the ship at e.g. 20c according to the ship's frame of reference? Given that, at 20c it would take the inhabitants of the ship 53 days to reach Alpha Centauri (4 light years). Multiply that by 18000 for the other side of the galaxy (72000 light years): 261 years. You most likely couldn't make that in "one hop" so you'd have some crazy multiplier depending on the maximum travel distance of your drive. Even if you didn't want to travel colonize the other size of the galaxy you'd have to search some 400 billion stars for a habitable planet. That's what I'm saying: once you move past the "local neighborhood" things become quite ridiculous.
  - w0000t 11y ago
    I was referring to sub c speeds and what happens by using real confirmed physics. I didn't realize you were talking about warp drives in that case. As far as I understand from popular science, warp drive doesn't actually move the occupants of the vehicle, it moves the space around the ship so in that case there is no time dilation. It takes the same amount of time for people, in and outside, the ship. If your warp drive is limited to 20c then yes it is a problem, but I don't see why would it have to be limited in the first place. Make it go 10^10c and the problem is solved.
    - zamalek 11y ago
      > I was referring to sub c speeds and what happens by using real confirmed physics. That much so much more sense. In addition to the velocity there would also be time spent completely outside of a gravity well. However, the article is really talking about warp. > Make it go 10^10c and the problem is solved. Too much energy. From what I understand it's exponential - i.e. more energy would be used getting to Alpha Centauri at 10^10c than at 20c. We don't know exactly how to get to 1c in the first place, but we do know that if we could then e.g. 100c would likely be something that would be out of reach. Keep in mind that before White optimized the Alcubierre metric, getting to Pluto (AFAIR) with a warp drive would have required the mass of Jupiter. Getting to Alpha Centauri would have required the mass of the observable universe (which is now down to something with "the mass of Voyager 1"). That's the amount of energy we are talking about even at a pitiful 20c.
      - w0000t 11y ago
        > Too much energy. Right, you would need those rare, stable, dilithium crystals.
        zamalek 11y ago
        > Right, you would need those rare, stable, dilithium crystals. The spice must flow. All of this stuff is a massive longshot, whether or not we can do it it's still interesting.