5 ms·

man, i really hate cars. i use my bikes everday and i just wonder about the inefficiency and wastefulness of cars. i understand that certain groups of people r

by n0mad01 11y ago

man, i really hate cars. i use my bikes everday and i just wonder about the inefficiency and wastefulness of cars. i understand that certain groups of people really depend on cars workwise, but for the average joe a personal car is just silly. whole rivers of cars trolling down the streets with only one person in it and i wonder - car sharing - no, why, it's my personal right and as long as I can afford it, fu*k it ... a hyperbole of the idea of freedom, questionable whether a force for prosperity.

stinos 11y ago
I don't hate cars. I have on myself and it is simply a major and wonderful invention. That being said, I vastly prefer the bike for commuting and the way cars are used in certain areas/countries is just infuriating to me - after all cars are very bad for the environment, using them to drive to a highway just to go stand in line there is silly and governments actually subsidizing (by making it interesting for companies to lease cars for their employees, as is the cae in e.g. Belgium) this whole principle is just insane. Compare a country to a company. Suppose part of the company's production process is getting stuff from A to B. I doubt an engineer would stand up and figure out the best way to do this is put money into a transportation process which makes a super inefficient use of space, where the transport mechanism is seriously overrated for the weight it actually has to transport and where the mechanism pollutes the environment.
rotten 11y ago
In many parts of the US the average joe has to have a car to do anything. There is no safe passage to anywhere without getting in a car. Pedestrian and Bikes are discouraged, and there is no practical public transportation.
- pouetpouet 11y ago
  The land use favors the long trip. It's not just about cheap land. You have to pay for more infrastructure per person. More roads, pipes, lines, pumps, delivery miles, per person etc. All subsidised.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Zoning as well, following car ubiquity much of US zoning is euclidian which is completely fucked up with respect to livability (it strictly separates residential and commercial zones and encourages endless suburbs with huge strip malls few and far between)
    - pouetpouet 11y ago
      Yes! Add offsite parking requirements / minimums to the list.
- noobermin 11y ago
  This really is a catch-22. Cars are the only way to do anything because our cities are setup for the convenience of cars. The best way to push back on that without changing the layout would better public transport. The thing is I feel that sometimes buses and train funding is actively fought in the US, and I don't understand why.
  - 7Z7 11y ago
    This stood out for me, (from Ivan Illich's book, referenced in the article): "The cyclist can reach new destinations of his choice without his tool creating new locations from which he is barred."
gambiting 11y ago
From my personal perspective - taking a bus to work would take at least an hour each way, usually more depending on the traffic. Add standing at unheated bus stops in winter = no thank you. By car I get to work in 15-20 minutes. At the temperature I like, listening to music I like. That easily saves me a good few hours each week for other activities - learning, relaxing, family time. I could cycle, like I did while I was at uni - but that leaves a problem of getting sweaty, can't really cycle in a shirt, and cycling in winter is miserable. Am I an "avarage joe" going to work from 9-5, or am I being wasteful? You tell me. I know what I'm going to continue doing :-)
- sbarre 11y ago
  You are absolutely being wasteful, but you are choosing to do so in exchange for some additional comforts and conveniences, as is your right. Of course no one is going to (or should) stop you, but you could at least own your actions and their consequences, and not act unaware.
- Litost 11y ago
  "Am I an "avarage joe" going to work from 9-5, or am I being wasteful? You tell me. I know what I'm going to continue doing :-)" Arguably both ;), but then i'd blame a broken system for coercing you into those choices :). I'm sure, even in only a semi-enlightened world, you wouldn't need to wear a shirt to work, assuming you even needed a job?
- stinos 11y ago
  but that leaves a problem of getting sweaty which usually could be solved in at least two ways. In a better world your employer would supply showers so you could at least clean yourself. Secondly, unless you have some condition or your way to work exists solely of tour-de-france-like cols, it should be possibly to commute that without or with a minimum of sweating. Key is training and cycling below the threshold you start sweating. What I ususally do is ride to work at an easy pace (about 5km/h slower on average than what I usually do) which results in no or a just a little bit of sweating, while when riding home again I ride at my usual pace or faster if I feel like it - that is the training part. For the rest: yes cycling in winter can be a quite unpleasant experience and sbarre's comment is very well put
toyg 11y ago
I think the problem is that, because of historical quirks and social norms, cars are much bigger than they should be. It wouldn't be such a big deal if those single-person cars were as big as a scooter, for example; but cultural norms tell us that a real man must have a "real car": 4 seats, a huge engine you'll never really need, an empty boot, and projecting an image of power and superiority (mostly through size). People have the right to make journeys privately and in comfort, but they don't have the right to waste space and energy just because of outdated cultural norms. Enlightened cities would promote extra-small cars, segregating other cars and trucks in congested lanes "for security". It can be done relatively easily, but there is a very hard cultural battle to fight with the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and his viewers.
- PopeOfNope 11y ago
  I think the problem is that, because of historical quirks and social norms, cars are much bigger than they should be. That doesn't explain their popularity throughout the world, even the third world. As wasteful as cars are, they get you where you need to go faster than anything else, with the exception of dense city centers. If it was only about status, the poor wouldn't bother with them, since they are expensive to maintain. Owning a car allows you access to areas you wouldn't normally have access to. Jobs 70 miles away. Visiting your cousin's family three states over. Driving your father to the hospital because you don't have insurance and can't afford an ambulance. It can be done relatively easily, but there is a very hard cultural battle to fight with the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and his viewers. You're delusional if you think Top Gear viewers are the reason cities are clogged with cars. Car fans like clear, open roads with little traffic. The more bends the better. They also only take their performance cars out on the weekend once or twice a month and that's when the weather is nice. The rest of the time, they sit in the garage. My grandmother (of all people) is a huge fan of classic Chevrolets. Has a mint condition cherry red 1960 Chevy Impala. It sits in her barn on the farm. I've only seen it on the road once in my lifetime, for one last ride before my grandfather died. The rest of the time she drives a beat up truck. She works on a farm; she actually uses the truck to haul things every day.
  - toyg 11y ago
sdoering 11y ago
Thanks for calling me silly. It may not be efficient, but I tell you what. If it weren't for the ability to drive by car, public transport would more then double my daily commute. Driving by bike in a very rainy environment would about tripple my commute. I really love having my own home with a garden and can't stand the idea of living in these cramped loud dirty inner city dwellings. And driving has one real great upside for me: It takes care of my mental state, as I really hate these idiots inside these cramped busses/tube-cars, that smell like chemical shit (having forgot to shower and doing deodorant en masse) or listening to their music over shitty headphones, so that everybody get's noise polluted. Not having run amok during my public transport commutes over the last 5 years (before I switched back to driving 'cause of a new job) was really sometimes hard. People are obnoxious, loud, smelly and egomaniac. Having to endure public transport showed me, how bad humanity really is. At least here in Hamburg, Germany. So tl;dr: Being an ambivert i really need the quite time of my private car commute to function well in this society.

by n0mad01 11y ago

stinos 11y ago

I don't hate cars. I have on myself and it is simply a major and wonderful invention. That being said, I vastly prefer the bike for commuting and the way cars are used in certain areas/countries is just infuriating to me - after all cars are very bad for the environment, using them to drive to a highway just to go stand in line there is silly and governments actually subsidizing (by making it interesting for companies to lease cars for their employees, as is the cae in e.g. Belgium) this whole principle is just insane. Compare a country to a company. Suppose part of the company's production process is getting stuff from A to B. I doubt an engineer would stand up and figure out the best way to do this is put money into a transportation process which makes a super inefficient use of space, where the transport mechanism is seriously overrated for the weight it actually has to transport and where the mechanism pollutes the environment.

rotten 11y ago

In many parts of the US the average joe has to have a car to do anything. There is no safe passage to anywhere without getting in a car. Pedestrian and Bikes are discouraged, and there is no practical public transportation.

pouetpouet 11y ago
The land use favors the long trip. It's not just about cheap land. You have to pay for more infrastructure per person. More roads, pipes, lines, pumps, delivery miles, per person etc. All subsidised.
- masklinn 11y ago
  Zoning as well, following car ubiquity much of US zoning is euclidian which is completely fucked up with respect to livability (it strictly separates residential and commercial zones and encourages endless suburbs with huge strip malls few and far between)
  - pouetpouet 11y ago
    Yes! Add offsite parking requirements / minimums to the list.
noobermin 11y ago
This really is a catch-22. Cars are the only way to do anything because our cities are setup for the convenience of cars. The best way to push back on that without changing the layout would better public transport. The thing is I feel that sometimes buses and train funding is actively fought in the US, and I don't understand why.
- 7Z7 11y ago
  This stood out for me, (from Ivan Illich's book, referenced in the article): "The cyclist can reach new destinations of his choice without his tool creating new locations from which he is barred."

gambiting 11y ago

From my personal perspective - taking a bus to work would take at least an hour each way, usually more depending on the traffic. Add standing at unheated bus stops in winter = no thank you. By car I get to work in 15-20 minutes. At the temperature I like, listening to music I like. That easily saves me a good few hours each week for other activities - learning, relaxing, family time. I could cycle, like I did while I was at uni - but that leaves a problem of getting sweaty, can't really cycle in a shirt, and cycling in winter is miserable. Am I an "avarage joe" going to work from 9-5, or am I being wasteful? You tell me. I know what I'm going to continue doing :-)

sbarre 11y ago
You are absolutely being wasteful, but you are choosing to do so in exchange for some additional comforts and conveniences, as is your right. Of course no one is going to (or should) stop you, but you could at least own your actions and their consequences, and not act unaware.
Litost 11y ago
"Am I an "avarage joe" going to work from 9-5, or am I being wasteful? You tell me. I know what I'm going to continue doing :-)" Arguably both ;), but then i'd blame a broken system for coercing you into those choices :). I'm sure, even in only a semi-enlightened world, you wouldn't need to wear a shirt to work, assuming you even needed a job?
stinos 11y ago
but that leaves a problem of getting sweaty which usually could be solved in at least two ways. In a better world your employer would supply showers so you could at least clean yourself. Secondly, unless you have some condition or your way to work exists solely of tour-de-france-like cols, it should be possibly to commute that without or with a minimum of sweating. Key is training and cycling below the threshold you start sweating. What I ususally do is ride to work at an easy pace (about 5km/h slower on average than what I usually do) which results in no or a just a little bit of sweating, while when riding home again I ride at my usual pace or faster if I feel like it - that is the training part. For the rest: yes cycling in winter can be a quite unpleasant experience and sbarre's comment is very well put

toyg 11y ago

I think the problem is that, because of historical quirks and social norms, cars are much bigger than they should be. It wouldn't be such a big deal if those single-person cars were as big as a scooter, for example; but cultural norms tell us that a real man must have a "real car": 4 seats, a huge engine you'll never really need, an empty boot, and projecting an image of power and superiority (mostly through size). People have the right to make journeys privately and in comfort, but they don't have the right to waste space and energy just because of outdated cultural norms. Enlightened cities would promote extra-small cars, segregating other cars and trucks in congested lanes "for security". It can be done relatively easily, but there is a very hard cultural battle to fight with the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and his viewers.

PopeOfNope 11y ago
I think the problem is that, because of historical quirks and social norms, cars are much bigger than they should be. That doesn't explain their popularity throughout the world, even the third world. As wasteful as cars are, they get you where you need to go faster than anything else, with the exception of dense city centers. If it was only about status, the poor wouldn't bother with them, since they are expensive to maintain. Owning a car allows you access to areas you wouldn't normally have access to. Jobs 70 miles away. Visiting your cousin's family three states over. Driving your father to the hospital because you don't have insurance and can't afford an ambulance. It can be done relatively easily, but there is a very hard cultural battle to fight with the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and his viewers. You're delusional if you think Top Gear viewers are the reason cities are clogged with cars. Car fans like clear, open roads with little traffic. The more bends the better. They also only take their performance cars out on the weekend once or twice a month and that's when the weather is nice. The rest of the time, they sit in the garage. My grandmother (of all people) is a huge fan of classic Chevrolets. Has a mint condition cherry red 1960 Chevy Impala. It sits in her barn on the farm. I've only seen it on the road once in my lifetime, for one last ride before my grandfather died. The rest of the time she drives a beat up truck. She works on a farm; she actually uses the truck to haul things every day.
- toyg 11y ago

sdoering 11y ago

Thanks for calling me silly. It may not be efficient, but I tell you what. If it weren't for the ability to drive by car, public transport would more then double my daily commute. Driving by bike in a very rainy environment would about tripple my commute. I really love having my own home with a garden and can't stand the idea of living in these cramped loud dirty inner city dwellings. And driving has one real great upside for me: It takes care of my mental state, as I really hate these idiots inside these cramped busses/tube-cars, that smell like chemical shit (having forgot to shower and doing deodorant en masse) or listening to their music over shitty headphones, so that everybody get's noise polluted. Not having run amok during my public transport commutes over the last 5 years (before I switched back to driving 'cause of a new job) was really sometimes hard. People are obnoxious, loud, smelly and egomaniac. Having to endure public transport showed me, how bad humanity really is. At least here in Hamburg, Germany. So tl;dr: Being an ambivert i really need the quite time of my private car commute to function well in this society.