4 ms·

> you'll see lots of edges going from Goldman, Microsoft, Google, and Facebook to Two Sigma. There are very few edges going the other way. Perhaps one reason f

> you'll see lots of edges going from Goldman, Microsoft, Google, and Facebook to Two Sigma. There are very few edges going the other way. Perhaps one reason for it that they don't advertise is the ridiculous non-competes that their employees have signed and it's limited their future career options. I have first hand experience with this. They had the audacity to ask me sign a 18-month IP assignment (basically with FROR), a 1-year non-compete, and a fucking 5-year non-solicit (much stricter than the non-solicit in a Google's contract) clause. They want slaves, not employees. Of course I threw up on that contract, especially considering their history of bringing criminal lawsuits against their former employees. Avoid.

ninetax 11y ago
Sorry, what is FROF?
- mehrdada 11y ago
  (Misspelled, corrected.) "First right of refusal". I'm not sure if it is the right phrase in the context of IP assignment, but it was a good analogy to what they asked: basically they'd say whatever you'd invent in the next 18-months after your employment, you have to show us first and we decide if it is related to our business and therefore ours.
  - ahlatimer 11y ago
    It's generally "Right of First Refusal" or ROFR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_refusal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_refusal
kyushiro 11y ago
I went from TS to Google and personally know quite a few: - They only enforce non-compete if you actually go to a competitor (like rentech, KCG, Citadel). You also get paid your normal salary during those time (just to chill around). One of my friends is using that to travel all over the place. If you go to other tech company like FB or Google then you can start the next day (which I did) - I only have 2 years non-solicit so may be that's a recent change. It doesn't affect you that much though (you can't refer people you know from TS or give them recommendation, that's it). - If you actually follow the law suits, those people actually tried to upload model to external servers. If you try to do that with Google's HIP code I'm pretty sure they would do the same to you. I picked TS offer over Google offer before and now that I'm on the other side I regretted nothing. Both are great place to work.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  > They only enforce non-compete if you actually go to a competitor (like rentech, KCG, Citadel). Does the contract say that? Never trust anyone who asks you to sign away your firstborn, but says "Don't worry, it's just legal boilerplate, we don't enforce it!" If it's not enforced, it shouldn't be in the contract.
  - cpwright 11y ago
    They have to pay you not to work if they elect to enforce it; the contract actually says that. They don't actually enumerate who is a competitor, but in practice they aren't interested in enforcing against Google, Facebook etc.
    - kyushiro 11y ago
      Yes. One MD told me that non-compete is not enforceable if you don't pay. I don't think anyone want to pay six figures and lots of good wills for no good reasons.
  - kelukelugames 11y ago
    No, they don't say that. But non competes are never enforced for low level folks. It's usually for upper management.
- foobarqux 11y ago
  Why did you leave?
  - kyushiro 11y ago
    No real good reason from either TS or Google, just want to try/learn something new. I still hangout with my old manager/teammates and might come back some days, who knows.
    - foobarqux 11y ago

ninetax 11y ago

Sorry, what is FROF?

mehrdada 11y ago
(Misspelled, corrected.) "First right of refusal". I'm not sure if it is the right phrase in the context of IP assignment, but it was a good analogy to what they asked: basically they'd say whatever you'd invent in the next 18-months after your employment, you have to show us first and we decide if it is related to our business and therefore ours.
- ahlatimer 11y ago
  It's generally "Right of First Refusal" or ROFR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_refusal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_refusal

kyushiro 11y ago

I went from TS to Google and personally know quite a few: - They only enforce non-compete if you actually go to a competitor (like rentech, KCG, Citadel). You also get paid your normal salary during those time (just to chill around). One of my friends is using that to travel all over the place. If you go to other tech company like FB or Google then you can start the next day (which I did) - I only have 2 years non-solicit so may be that's a recent change. It doesn't affect you that much though (you can't refer people you know from TS or give them recommendation, that's it). - If you actually follow the law suits, those people actually tried to upload model to external servers. If you try to do that with Google's HIP code I'm pretty sure they would do the same to you. I picked TS offer over Google offer before and now that I'm on the other side I regretted nothing. Both are great place to work.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
> They only enforce non-compete if you actually go to a competitor (like rentech, KCG, Citadel). Does the contract say that? Never trust anyone who asks you to sign away your firstborn, but says "Don't worry, it's just legal boilerplate, we don't enforce it!" If it's not enforced, it shouldn't be in the contract.
- cpwright 11y ago
  They have to pay you not to work if they elect to enforce it; the contract actually says that. They don't actually enumerate who is a competitor, but in practice they aren't interested in enforcing against Google, Facebook etc.
  - kyushiro 11y ago
    Yes. One MD told me that non-compete is not enforceable if you don't pay. I don't think anyone want to pay six figures and lots of good wills for no good reasons.
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  No, they don't say that. But non competes are never enforced for low level folks. It's usually for upper management.
foobarqux 11y ago
Why did you leave?
- kyushiro 11y ago
  No real good reason from either TS or Google, just want to try/learn something new. I still hangout with my old manager/teammates and might come back some days, who knows.
  - foobarqux 11y ago