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The amount of time and money to shift at this point would be astronomical wouldn't it? It would take a few generations as we would continue to have to teach imp

by adamrt 11y ago

The amount of time and money to shift at this point would be astronomical wouldn't it? It would take a few generations as we would continue to have to teach imperial so people could convert when they ran across any existing media referring to the imperial system measurements. Hundred years of machines that use imperial, speedometers, odometers, books, tools, software, air conditioning, heating, manufacturing, construction, plumbing, including regulatory codes for each of those. Not saying its impossible and it's definitely my knee jerk reaction, but at this point I cant imagine it being feasible.

fletchowns 11y ago
The total cost to switch has gotta be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. Has anybody done such a calculation?
- oblio 11y ago
  What's the total cost of not switching? I'm willing to bet it's in the tens of billions each year. All your major trade partners use the metric system: EU, China, India, Australia.
- ohitsdom 11y ago
  Thing is, we use both systems now. What huge cost is involved by saying "Starting in 2020, the metric system will be the official unit of measurement in the US." Manufacturing companies can switch as soon as they want to. Most consumers' toolsets already have both systems (wrenches, sockets, etc).
- peterfirefly 11y ago
  "Metrication Matters" (Google TechTalk from 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgtsSM7vN0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgtsSM7vN0M It starts a bit slow but stick with it. I'm currently rewatching it after several years so I'm not sure there is a calculation. I think there is. A lot of the production in the US already is metric so it shouldn't be that expensive. Remember that everybody else also had to change their (many) measuring systems over to metric. It went remarkably well.
- kstrauser 11y ago
  My estimate is "approximately zero". For example, people talk about the cost of converting road signs as though we have pick a Tuesday in March and switch the entire country that afternoon. How about we adopt a policy like "when we install new signs or replace old ones as routine maintenance, we make them metric - and here's a conversion chart so we're all using the same mile-to-km rounding."
  - peterfirefly 11y ago
    The Australian experience (as told in the "Metrication Matters" video) was that a "direct metrication" where everybody switches at the same time and doesn't try to maintain two systems at the same time is fast (about a year) and cheap (often saving money). Road signs can be prepared in advance and covered. The covers can be removed quickly. Another option is to put stickers on the road signs on Metric Sunday.
  - fletchowns 11y ago
    > My estimate is "approximately zero" You do realize there is more to switching to metric than just updating the road signs, right? Think of all the military and space technology that uses inches.
blackbeard 11y ago
We did it in the UK. Its fine. Apart from some things like miles and gallons which would require a massive synchronised change that is. I'd also like it if we drove on the RHS here as well so we can get decent import vehicles.
- masklinn 11y ago
  > Apart from some things like miles and gallons which would require a massive synchronised change that is. It's less the synchronisation and more the expense of replacing all road signs throughout the kingdom, making it a political non-priority.
  - blackbeard 11y ago
    I'd happily help foot the bill. So how much is that 1000 mile journey going to cost? 1000/44.94.4561.119= where's my calculator?
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
Isn't the United States in practice a worst of both worlds approach where you have both imperial and metric measurements inconsistently mixed together?
- digitalzombie 11y ago
  Doubt it. The separation is mostly distinct, at least to me. We mostly use imperial and in science class and such we use mostly metric. The worst of both world I've seen was England. They're mostly metric until you drive their car and then they decide to use mile per hour. That's pretty random... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_Unite... While the article doesn't flat out say it but if you stare at the uk speed sign image and the comment below the image you will see they are in fact in MPH. edit: found an article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_King...
- dankohn1 11y ago
  Yes. The mix in the US is a disaster: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/ http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/
oblio 11y ago
Of course it's going to be hard. Changing legacy code always is. But this kind of argument seems to be presented in the US for everything from gay marriages to gun control laws. If you really want to, you can do it. And it's not as painful as presented especially since many countries have done it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system). And the longer you wait the more painful it becomes.
alricb 11y ago
It's really not that bad. Canada did it in the 1970s and it's still around, and we didn't revert to the stone age or anything. SI units are already in wide use in the US, for instance for electricity (Amperes, Watts, Volts). For the most part, international trade has pushed US industries to adopt metric anyway: metric fasteners are used all over, in cars for instance. Also, countries that have switched still use inch-pattern stuff; in Canada we still use NPT threads and imperial size pipes with no ill effects; even in Europe they still use some imperial-threaded stuff.
- carey 11y ago
  My favourite is car tyre sizes. 215/60R16 means the maximum width is 215 millimetres, the aspect ratio of the cross section is 60 percent, R is both a separator and a code for radials, and it's made for 16 inch rims.
  - gpvos 11y ago
    Even in the Netherlands, a staunchly metric country, bicycle tyre diameters are measured in inches. (Wouldn't know about car tyres.)
jaawn 11y ago
I think it might not be as bad as we imagine. All speedometers I've seen show both miles-per-hour and kilometers-per-hour, all thermostats I've seen have an option for switching to Celsius, all scales I've owned can display both pounds and kilograms (my current one even has an option for stones), all measuring cups I've seen in a long time have both systems displayed, etc. Even lumber wouldn't necessarily be a huge issue. After all, the "2 by 4" is actually 1.5" by 3.5", which equates to 38mm by 89mm. Would it be a huge deal to round that to 40mm by 90mm? And, in any case, most people have a mobile phone now which can quickly do unit conversions. I really think it actually is feasible, if you could get the public behind it (good luck).
- maxerickson 11y ago
  If you changed the sizes of lumber, I'm pretty sure that someone would come out with "new inch" tapes that were labeled with inches and feet but accounted for the change in size (spreading the extra millimeters out across the distance). The dimensions in use are something that people are very used to working with and they know how to do the necessary mental arithmetic to work with them.
  - jaawn 11y ago
    Luckily, the easy mental arithmetic is a main benefit of the metric system. I really doubt people would create "new inch" tapes. They would probably hang on to existing measuring tape for personal projects though.
    - maxerickson 11y ago
      The imperial choice of using highly composite numbers is at least as convenient for mental arithmetic as decimals.
      - kstrauser 11y ago
        What's 1/10th of 3 3/8"?
dalke 11y ago
We were almost there in the 1970s. As for "a few generations", yes, certainly. We have only to look to the mishmash of unit use in the UK. But what's wrong with taking a few generations to get there? Turning it around, we got rid of a lot of specialized units - hogshead, chain, furlong, peck, etc. (If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, how many many more are needed to make a bushel?) So it's clearly possible. Also, metric countries still use non-metric terms for some cases, eg, "inches in a screen", the market price of a "barrel" of oil, and food energy in "[food] calories". This tells me that the transition can occur piecemeal.
- anonymfus 11y ago
  >metric countries still use non-metric terms for some cases, eg, "inches in a screen" This is an example of American influence. Decade ago it was in centimetres. For example, in this 2004 Siemens commercial for Russia CX65's screen size is 13 square centimetres: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZaY_f6U8Mo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZaY_f6U8Mo
scott_karana 11y ago
If Imperial keeps getting used, it will get even harder to get rid of it. What kind of argument is this? "It would really hurt to amputate my leg, so let's just wait and let the gangrene go further for now."
- adamrt 11y ago
  > What kind of argument is this? "it's definitely my knee jerk reaction"

by adamrt 11y ago

fletchowns 11y ago

The total cost to switch has gotta be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. Has anybody done such a calculation?

oblio 11y ago
What's the total cost of not switching? I'm willing to bet it's in the tens of billions each year. All your major trade partners use the metric system: EU, China, India, Australia.
ohitsdom 11y ago
Thing is, we use both systems now. What huge cost is involved by saying "Starting in 2020, the metric system will be the official unit of measurement in the US." Manufacturing companies can switch as soon as they want to. Most consumers' toolsets already have both systems (wrenches, sockets, etc).
peterfirefly 11y ago
"Metrication Matters" (Google TechTalk from 2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgtsSM7vN0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgtsSM7vN0M It starts a bit slow but stick with it. I'm currently rewatching it after several years so I'm not sure there is a calculation. I think there is. A lot of the production in the US already is metric so it shouldn't be that expensive. Remember that everybody else also had to change their (many) measuring systems over to metric. It went remarkably well.
kstrauser 11y ago
My estimate is "approximately zero". For example, people talk about the cost of converting road signs as though we have pick a Tuesday in March and switch the entire country that afternoon. How about we adopt a policy like "when we install new signs or replace old ones as routine maintenance, we make them metric - and here's a conversion chart so we're all using the same mile-to-km rounding."
- peterfirefly 11y ago
  The Australian experience (as told in the "Metrication Matters" video) was that a "direct metrication" where everybody switches at the same time and doesn't try to maintain two systems at the same time is fast (about a year) and cheap (often saving money). Road signs can be prepared in advance and covered. The covers can be removed quickly. Another option is to put stickers on the road signs on Metric Sunday.
- fletchowns 11y ago
  > My estimate is "approximately zero" You do realize there is more to switching to metric than just updating the road signs, right? Think of all the military and space technology that uses inches.

blackbeard 11y ago

We did it in the UK. Its fine. Apart from some things like miles and gallons which would require a massive synchronised change that is. I'd also like it if we drove on the RHS here as well so we can get decent import vehicles.

masklinn 11y ago
> Apart from some things like miles and gallons which would require a massive synchronised change that is. It's less the synchronisation and more the expense of replacing all road signs throughout the kingdom, making it a political non-priority.
- blackbeard 11y ago
  I'd happily help foot the bill. So how much is that 1000 mile journey going to cost? 1000/44.94.4561.119= where's my calculator?

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

Isn't the United States in practice a worst of both worlds approach where you have both imperial and metric measurements inconsistently mixed together?

digitalzombie 11y ago
Doubt it. The separation is mostly distinct, at least to me. We mostly use imperial and in science class and such we use mostly metric. The worst of both world I've seen was England. They're mostly metric until you drive their car and then they decide to use mile per hour. That's pretty random... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_Unite... While the article doesn't flat out say it but if you stare at the uk speed sign image and the comment below the image you will see they are in fact in MPH. edit: found an article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_King...
dankohn1 11y ago
Yes. The mix in the US is a disaster: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/ http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

oblio 11y ago

Of course it's going to be hard. Changing legacy code always is. But this kind of argument seems to be presented in the US for everything from gay marriages to gun control laws. If you really want to, you can do it. And it's not as painful as presented especially since many countries have done it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system). And the longer you wait the more painful it becomes.

alricb 11y ago

It's really not that bad. Canada did it in the 1970s and it's still around, and we didn't revert to the stone age or anything. SI units are already in wide use in the US, for instance for electricity (Amperes, Watts, Volts). For the most part, international trade has pushed US industries to adopt metric anyway: metric fasteners are used all over, in cars for instance. Also, countries that have switched still use inch-pattern stuff; in Canada we still use NPT threads and imperial size pipes with no ill effects; even in Europe they still use some imperial-threaded stuff.

carey 11y ago
My favourite is car tyre sizes. 215/60R16 means the maximum width is 215 millimetres, the aspect ratio of the cross section is 60 percent, R is both a separator and a code for radials, and it's made for 16 inch rims.
- gpvos 11y ago
  Even in the Netherlands, a staunchly metric country, bicycle tyre diameters are measured in inches. (Wouldn't know about car tyres.)

jaawn 11y ago

I think it might not be as bad as we imagine. All speedometers I've seen show both miles-per-hour and kilometers-per-hour, all thermostats I've seen have an option for switching to Celsius, all scales I've owned can display both pounds and kilograms (my current one even has an option for stones), all measuring cups I've seen in a long time have both systems displayed, etc. Even lumber wouldn't necessarily be a huge issue. After all, the "2 by 4" is actually 1.5" by 3.5", which equates to 38mm by 89mm. Would it be a huge deal to round that to 40mm by 90mm? And, in any case, most people have a mobile phone now which can quickly do unit conversions. I really think it actually is feasible, if you could get the public behind it (good luck).

maxerickson 11y ago
If you changed the sizes of lumber, I'm pretty sure that someone would come out with "new inch" tapes that were labeled with inches and feet but accounted for the change in size (spreading the extra millimeters out across the distance). The dimensions in use are something that people are very used to working with and they know how to do the necessary mental arithmetic to work with them.
- jaawn 11y ago
  Luckily, the easy mental arithmetic is a main benefit of the metric system. I really doubt people would create "new inch" tapes. They would probably hang on to existing measuring tape for personal projects though.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    The imperial choice of using highly composite numbers is at least as convenient for mental arithmetic as decimals.
    - kstrauser 11y ago
      What's 1/10th of 3 3/8"?

dalke 11y ago

We were almost there in the 1970s. As for "a few generations", yes, certainly. We have only to look to the mishmash of unit use in the UK. But what's wrong with taking a few generations to get there? Turning it around, we got rid of a lot of specialized units - hogshead, chain, furlong, peck, etc. (If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, how many many more are needed to make a bushel?) So it's clearly possible. Also, metric countries still use non-metric terms for some cases, eg, "inches in a screen", the market price of a "barrel" of oil, and food energy in "[food] calories". This tells me that the transition can occur piecemeal.

anonymfus 11y ago
>metric countries still use non-metric terms for some cases, eg, "inches in a screen" This is an example of American influence. Decade ago it was in centimetres. For example, in this 2004 Siemens commercial for Russia CX65's screen size is 13 square centimetres: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZaY_f6U8Mo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZaY_f6U8Mo

scott_karana 11y ago

If Imperial keeps getting used, it will get even harder to get rid of it. What kind of argument is this? "It would really hurt to amputate my leg, so let's just wait and let the gangrene go further for now."

adamrt 11y ago
> What kind of argument is this? "it's definitely my knee jerk reaction"