8 ms·

Modified yeast produce opiates from sugar

102 points by runesoerensen 11y ago

CatsoCatsoCatso 11y ago
There was an article about this in the New Scientist (UK) a few weeks back. They highlighted concerns that unlike mass illegal cannabis production the heat/energy footprint of producing opium in something like a bathtub would be almost undetectable. If someone finds a way to produce addictive drugs from yeast then a whole new ball park could be opened up in the war on drugs.
- benjohnson 11y ago
  As someone who deplores recreational drug use, I would be happy to see it's manufacture distributed, cheap, and hard to detect. It would remove the majority of the violent crime element from the equation without significant downside (that I could see.)
  - lisivka 11y ago
    Why not to hook electrodes directly into brain? Electricity is legal, cheap as dirt, and cannot be detected. As bonus, it will do no harm to your body.
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      http://www.gizmag.com/thync-review/38662/ http://www.gizmag.com/thync-review/38662/
    - beagle3 11y ago
      If you know how to do that with little to no risk, you can get extremely rich - but you wouldn't really care, as the electrodes in your brain will deliver more enjoyment than all that money could. ... or not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
    - kjs3 11y ago
      Hooking electrodes directly into your brain has no possibility to harm your body? That's comically wrong.
- pixl97 11y ago
  >If someone finds a way to produce addictive drugs from yeast then a whole new ball park could be opened up in the war on drugs. More like a whole new ballpark in the devastation of human rights. How exactly do you fight against this without a totalitarian police state? The gene labs could be anywhere in the world, bringing a new strain in would be as simple as tiny sealed pocket in just about anything you could imagine. Would the yeast itself be considered illegal? How much would be, a few micrograms? And this is just the early days of gene manipulation. Way better and more potent combinations will be made at some point, because even though it may be 'somewhat' difficult, there is a lot of money to be made. Which turns back to the government now monitoring everybody that has knowledge and ability in the genetics world since they could be a drug manufacture. Future will be an interesting place.
  - nugga 11y ago
    The answer is of course repealing the war on drugs. Maybe legalization of cannabis paves the way to the realization that regulation, taxation and harm reduction are much better ways of combating not only the violence and corruption that stems from the black market but especially the health issues.
    - pixl97 11y ago
      Oh I certainly agree with that, unfortunately a sizeable portion of the population doesn't. A significant lobby base in the U.S. fights actively against legalization and will throw tons of money at the current racket too.
      - digi_owl 11y ago
        There are times i wonder if people are incapable of learning from history...
  - AndrewStephens 11y ago
    > Would the yeast itself be considered illegal? How much would be, a few micrograms? According to the report on the radio I heard this morning, the yeast itself is considered a controlled substance and its distribution is restricted in the same way as the drugs themselves.
dekhn 11y ago
This is an absurd technical accomplishment. Identifying and cloning 21 genes on its own is a ton of work, but doing so in a way that replicates a synthetic pathway is amazing. Hats off to the scientists who managed to get this to work.
- pixl97 11y ago
  Once the proper genes to make this work are identified by one group, how hard is it for another group to replicate the results? I'm just wondering when drugs are created with this method if bioengineers will be able to 'easily' create reproductions of the yeast by following a template of the process, or if people in their footsteps will be mostly using clones of their original work.
  - dekhn 11y ago
    it's entirely non trivial. cloning genes is tedious, slow, manual labor. People are working on scaling it up (so more genes can be cloned at a time) and making it easier (so you can press a button and receive a yeast). Rather than directly replicating the experiment, it would be easier for the team to disseminate their cells to others, who could then grow the cells up, sequence them, and compare the sequence to a wild type yeast to verify the genes were included, then do a few other transcription experiments and blocking assays to show that the genes that got cloned in were actually the ones carrying out the synthesis.
- dbbolton 11y ago
  Six or so years ago, a friend of mine and I were talking about how the US had destroyed poppy fields in Afghanistan on a large scale (I think to block Taliban funding or something) despite the WHO listing morphine as a critical drug in short supply. Being enterprising sophomore Bio students who had a basic grasp on cellular machinery, we then somehow spun that story into the idea of mass-producing plant alkaloids from rapidly reproducing microbes (except we imagined bacteria rather than fungi). We always had "crazy" discussions like that and I never gave it a second thought afterward. What's really funny to me is what a pipe dream (no pun intended) it seemed like at the time-- maybe the beginning of a bad sci-fi story at best. But here we are today and it's so incredible to me that this team was able to bring that idea to life. Now I'm left wondering what other crazy discussions will turn into practical real-world applications in the next six years.
drallison 11y ago
Now that opiates can be cloned, will cocaine and ephedrine (for methamphetamine) be far behind?
xj9 11y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8232378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8232378
venomsnake 11y ago
Now that will be a fun sourdough bread ...
twerp 11y ago
I have a friend who suffered from 'auto-brewery syndrome' last year. From wikipedia: Auto-brewery syndrome, also known as gut fermentation syndrome, is a rare medical condition in which intoxicating quantities of ethanol are produced through endogenous fermentation within the digestive system. One gastrointestinal organism, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, a type of yeast, has been identified as a pathogen for this condition. Now imagine an auto-brewery syndrome with this modified yeast...
- Terr_ 11y ago
  Sounds like a prelude to a pseudo-zombie apocalypse, filled with junkies looking for their fix.
  - stickfigure 11y ago
    ...which they would receive by drinking any sugary liquid.
    - Terr_ 11y ago
      ...until it stops being enough, either due to gradual tolerance making them seek a stronger and stronger fixes, or due to something that disrupts production by the yeast-culture.
      - baldeagle 11y ago
        At which point they will seek the most sugary liquid ever.... The human brain.
        Terr_ 11y ago
        Too much sugar in brains, you say... > How should I know? I'm a dentist. But here's what I do know: If a tooth is bad, you PULL IT. Yep, mad brain's got to come out, boy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHaeJyLw2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHaeJyLw2o
- 11y ago
sosuke 11y ago
Sigh, I'm a cynic, this is an amazing accomplishment and all I could do was think that yeast will now be considered a controlled substance that I have to give my drivers license to buy like Sudafed. Keep doing excellent work.
- malingo 11y ago
  Poppy seeds are held behind the customer-service counter at some grocery stores [1]. They don't make you hand over your drivers license though. [1] http://www.radioiowa.com/2008/01/10/store-puts-poppy-seeds-behind-counter-after-thefts/ http://www.radioiowa.com/2008/01/10/store-puts-poppy-seeds-b...
  - aaron695 11y ago
    From the article this was only because they were being stolen, if anything I think that's less regulatory, even though we know addicts are using them stores are free to do what they want. Fun fact - Although the tech might have improved, a lot of the seeds never used to get irradiated properly.
  - mirimir 11y ago
    In the US, only low-opiate varieties are commercially available. For heirloom varieties, you need to know the right old folks ;)
- jamie_ca 11y ago
  This is specialty genetically engineered yeast, not the ordinary bread-leavening kind.
  - bigiain 11y ago
    yeah, but presumably its just like other yeast - if "non-authorized users" get hold of just a little bit, they can make as much of it as they want. (There's a whole bunch of bakers here in Sydney who sell "Sonoma Sourdough bread", which - story goes - all comes from the same small batch of not-quite-legally-acquired-and-imported yeast.) I'm wondering who's going to be the first politician or law enforcement chief to suggest we need to lock up sugar and require government issued ID to be presented before purchase...
dmschulman 11y ago
Yeah but will the GMO heroin be labeled as such?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- randyrand 11y ago
  And what if I'm gluten free? They need to make GMO Heroin gluten free!
beagle3 11y ago
Question to biologists: Is cross contamination an issue? e.g. Monsanto corn has contaminated non-monsanto corn through wind/pollen/whatever natural mechanism. Is there a non zero probability that sometime in the future I'll buy standard yeast for cooking at the store and get some of the kind described in the article?
- pierrec 11y ago
  No. First of all, this modification brings a significant handicap to the organism (it's wasting its resources), so it can't spread in nature. And even without any competition from wildtype yeast, it's likely to get rid of the opium pathway by itself once enough generations have passed. Anyways, yeast culture is done in closed environments with specific varieties as stems. The invasive potential of some Monsanto varieties that you mention arises from the fact that they were modified to be resistant to specific pesticides, giving them a significant advantage since these pesticides are everywhere.

102 points by runesoerensen 11y ago

There was an article about this in the New Scientist (UK) a few weeks back. They highlighted concerns that unlike mass illegal cannabis production the heat/energy footprint of producing opium in something like a bathtub would be almost undetectable. If someone finds a way to produce addictive drugs from yeast then a whole new ball park could be opened up in the war on drugs.

benjohnson 11y ago
As someone who deplores recreational drug use, I would be happy to see it's manufacture distributed, cheap, and hard to detect. It would remove the majority of the violent crime element from the equation without significant downside (that I could see.)
- lisivka 11y ago
  Why not to hook electrodes directly into brain? Electricity is legal, cheap as dirt, and cannot be detected. As bonus, it will do no harm to your body.
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    http://www.gizmag.com/thync-review/38662/ http://www.gizmag.com/thync-review/38662/
  - beagle3 11y ago
    If you know how to do that with little to no risk, you can get extremely rich - but you wouldn't really care, as the electrodes in your brain will deliver more enjoyment than all that money could. ... or not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
  - kjs3 11y ago
    Hooking electrodes directly into your brain has no possibility to harm your body? That's comically wrong.
pixl97 11y ago
>If someone finds a way to produce addictive drugs from yeast then a whole new ball park could be opened up in the war on drugs. More like a whole new ballpark in the devastation of human rights. How exactly do you fight against this without a totalitarian police state? The gene labs could be anywhere in the world, bringing a new strain in would be as simple as tiny sealed pocket in just about anything you could imagine. Would the yeast itself be considered illegal? How much would be, a few micrograms? And this is just the early days of gene manipulation. Way better and more potent combinations will be made at some point, because even though it may be 'somewhat' difficult, there is a lot of money to be made. Which turns back to the government now monitoring everybody that has knowledge and ability in the genetics world since they could be a drug manufacture. Future will be an interesting place.
- nugga 11y ago
  The answer is of course repealing the war on drugs. Maybe legalization of cannabis paves the way to the realization that regulation, taxation and harm reduction are much better ways of combating not only the violence and corruption that stems from the black market but especially the health issues.
  - pixl97 11y ago
    Oh I certainly agree with that, unfortunately a sizeable portion of the population doesn't. A significant lobby base in the U.S. fights actively against legalization and will throw tons of money at the current racket too.
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      There are times i wonder if people are incapable of learning from history...
- AndrewStephens 11y ago
  > Would the yeast itself be considered illegal? How much would be, a few micrograms? According to the report on the radio I heard this morning, the yeast itself is considered a controlled substance and its distribution is restricted in the same way as the drugs themselves.

dekhn 11y ago

This is an absurd technical accomplishment. Identifying and cloning 21 genes on its own is a ton of work, but doing so in a way that replicates a synthetic pathway is amazing. Hats off to the scientists who managed to get this to work.

pixl97 11y ago
Once the proper genes to make this work are identified by one group, how hard is it for another group to replicate the results? I'm just wondering when drugs are created with this method if bioengineers will be able to 'easily' create reproductions of the yeast by following a template of the process, or if people in their footsteps will be mostly using clones of their original work.
- dekhn 11y ago
  it's entirely non trivial. cloning genes is tedious, slow, manual labor. People are working on scaling it up (so more genes can be cloned at a time) and making it easier (so you can press a button and receive a yeast). Rather than directly replicating the experiment, it would be easier for the team to disseminate their cells to others, who could then grow the cells up, sequence them, and compare the sequence to a wild type yeast to verify the genes were included, then do a few other transcription experiments and blocking assays to show that the genes that got cloned in were actually the ones carrying out the synthesis.
dbbolton 11y ago
Six or so years ago, a friend of mine and I were talking about how the US had destroyed poppy fields in Afghanistan on a large scale (I think to block Taliban funding or something) despite the WHO listing morphine as a critical drug in short supply. Being enterprising sophomore Bio students who had a basic grasp on cellular machinery, we then somehow spun that story into the idea of mass-producing plant alkaloids from rapidly reproducing microbes (except we imagined bacteria rather than fungi). We always had "crazy" discussions like that and I never gave it a second thought afterward. What's really funny to me is what a pipe dream (no pun intended) it seemed like at the time-- maybe the beginning of a bad sci-fi story at best. But here we are today and it's so incredible to me that this team was able to bring that idea to life. Now I'm left wondering what other crazy discussions will turn into practical real-world applications in the next six years.

drallison 11y ago

Now that opiates can be cloned, will cocaine and ephedrine (for methamphetamine) be far behind?

xj9 11y ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8232378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8232378

venomsnake 11y ago

Now that will be a fun sourdough bread ...

twerp 11y ago

I have a friend who suffered from 'auto-brewery syndrome' last year. From wikipedia: Auto-brewery syndrome, also known as gut fermentation syndrome, is a rare medical condition in which intoxicating quantities of ethanol are produced through endogenous fermentation within the digestive system. One gastrointestinal organism, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, a type of yeast, has been identified as a pathogen for this condition. Now imagine an auto-brewery syndrome with this modified yeast...

Terr_ 11y ago
Sounds like a prelude to a pseudo-zombie apocalypse, filled with junkies looking for their fix.
- stickfigure 11y ago
  ...which they would receive by drinking any sugary liquid.
  - Terr_ 11y ago
    ...until it stops being enough, either due to gradual tolerance making them seek a stronger and stronger fixes, or due to something that disrupts production by the yeast-culture.
    - baldeagle 11y ago
      At which point they will seek the most sugary liquid ever.... The human brain.
      - Terr_ 11y ago
        Too much sugar in brains, you say... > How should I know? I'm a dentist. But here's what I do know: If a tooth is bad, you PULL IT. Yep, mad brain's got to come out, boy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHaeJyLw2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHaeJyLw2o
11y ago

sosuke 11y ago

Sigh, I'm a cynic, this is an amazing accomplishment and all I could do was think that yeast will now be considered a controlled substance that I have to give my drivers license to buy like Sudafed. Keep doing excellent work.

malingo 11y ago
Poppy seeds are held behind the customer-service counter at some grocery stores [1]. They don't make you hand over your drivers license though. [1] http://www.radioiowa.com/2008/01/10/store-puts-poppy-seeds-behind-counter-after-thefts/ http://www.radioiowa.com/2008/01/10/store-puts-poppy-seeds-b...
- aaron695 11y ago
  From the article this was only because they were being stolen, if anything I think that's less regulatory, even though we know addicts are using them stores are free to do what they want. Fun fact - Although the tech might have improved, a lot of the seeds never used to get irradiated properly.
- mirimir 11y ago
  In the US, only low-opiate varieties are commercially available. For heirloom varieties, you need to know the right old folks ;)
jamie_ca 11y ago
This is specialty genetically engineered yeast, not the ordinary bread-leavening kind.
- bigiain 11y ago
  yeah, but presumably its just like other yeast - if "non-authorized users" get hold of just a little bit, they can make as much of it as they want. (There's a whole bunch of bakers here in Sydney who sell "Sonoma Sourdough bread", which - story goes - all comes from the same small batch of not-quite-legally-acquired-and-imported yeast.) I'm wondering who's going to be the first politician or law enforcement chief to suggest we need to lock up sugar and require government issued ID to be presented before purchase...

dmschulman 11y ago

Yeah but will the GMO heroin be labeled as such?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
randyrand 11y ago
And what if I'm gluten free? They need to make GMO Heroin gluten free!

beagle3 11y ago

Question to biologists: Is cross contamination an issue? e.g. Monsanto corn has contaminated non-monsanto corn through wind/pollen/whatever natural mechanism. Is there a non zero probability that sometime in the future I'll buy standard yeast for cooking at the store and get some of the kind described in the article?

pierrec 11y ago
No. First of all, this modification brings a significant handicap to the organism (it's wasting its resources), so it can't spread in nature. And even without any competition from wildtype yeast, it's likely to get rid of the opium pathway by itself once enough generations have passed. Anyways, yeast culture is done in closed environments with specific varieties as stems. The invasive potential of some Monsanto varieties that you mention arises from the fact that they were modified to be resistant to specific pesticides, giving them a significant advantage since these pesticides are everywhere.