4 ms·

Yeah, I have noticed exactly the same, and I'm glad to see that I'm not alone falling through the rabbit hole. They're trying to turn the US's disenfranchised f

Yeah, I have noticed exactly the same, and I'm glad to see that I'm not alone falling through the rabbit hole. They're trying to turn the US's disenfranchised fringes (who are quite numerous and increasingly disgruntled now a days) inward to attack the state, but right now the propaganda is quite clumsy. See: RT, sputniknews.com, and the others you mentioned. Most of the modern Russian internet propaganda is easy to find, and rarely goes deeper than a bathtub. What is interesting is that they are clearly targeting the left and right leaning populations within the US quite differently. The right is targeted with clumsy racial incitement whereas the left is targeted with clumsy "environmentalist" incitement. There is a ton of overlap, but I bet you can hammer out these separate phyla of propaganda targets quite easily. It's pretty hard to tell how effective these propaganda campaigns are in riling up the target groups because they're mainly pushed by shills. Are the crowds of Putin apologists on Reddit actually Westerners who have come to believe (via propaganda) that Putin really is innocuous, or are they the same three people trying to fabricate a consensus? If I had to put my money on it, I'd say the latter. The propagandists give the public discussion a big shove in the right direction, then it's the useful idiots who believe them that have to carry it into the minds of the public in a durable way. What we don't see is positive mentions of Russia in day to day real life conversations, meaning that the propaganda has poor staying power, even if it reaches saturation in certain audiences. I'm being a little unfair here since my sample size is only the people I know who are informed (very few), but even the rabble who can't think for themselves aren't singing praises to Putin-- probably because the US propaganda saturation has been much higher for many more years, conferring resistance to certain types of outsider propaganda. I really like thinking about this stuff.

api 11y ago
They're disturbingly effective. I personally know more than one person who's had their brain sucked out by Putin's sock puppet troll army. (If indeed that's what it is, and if I were a betting man I'd bet something on it.) These are folks who have always been kind of out there and fringe, but this is different and it's a bit disturbing. They've become mean-spirited in an odd kind of way that I've never seen associated with the fringe before (outside of certain conspiracy circles), and have started espousing stuff that sounds slightly to the right of Hitler despite having historically been left of center. The ideology sounds like a cross between radical environmentalism and neo-right eugenics stuff, like Rachel Carson and Julius Evola had a love child that was raised by Steve Sailer. One even started admiring ISIS, claiming that all the stories of their misdeeds are Western propaganda. It's depressing and a bit scary. Propaganda is real and it works, and anyone can be conned. A lot of 'alt' people pride themselves on their independence. Thinking you can't be conned makes you a better mark. The problem with the analysis you give is that the goal of the propaganda may not be to inspire pro-Putin or pro-Russia feelings in Americans. The goal may be to make Americans more angry, cynical, irrational, and distrustful of their own government, institutions, and each other. The race baiting is probably the most dangerous element of the propaganda. I wonder if there's any causal relationship between it and the outbreak of police violence and reciprocal radicalism we're seeing.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  The confounding problem here is that there is plenty of US-self-targeted propaganda, pushing and teasing in a million different directions without any central authority. How much of the race baiting is FoxNews doing because they know their viewers want it? My guess is most. US corporate propaganda is definitely living well right now, but what about self-targeted government propaganda? Are all those top-voted posts with the soldiers returning home to be greeted by their dog really occurring without any outside push? On the other hand, how much of the race baiting on the alt news sites is organic? How much of it would still be around if it wasn't the hot topic that everyone is being forced to pay attention to via the media? Finally, what is the real long term strategic goal of these propaganda campaigns? It's hard to see foreign propaganda ever being successful enough to deliver a geopolitical victory.
  - api 11y ago
    Only the people doing it know the goal. I can speculate of course. It could just be standard 'fog of war' type stuff, or related to softening US public support for interventions against Russian actions in places like Ukraine. It could also have really specific goals you'd never guess without insider knowledge. I completely agree about there being more than one actor here. I just suspect Russia has a non-trivial role in the phenomenon I mention in my OP. The bottom line is that today's Internet is loaded with bullshit and propaganda and as time goes on seems to become less and less trustworthy as a source of information. That's a big problem.

api 11y ago

They're disturbingly effective. I personally know more than one person who's had their brain sucked out by Putin's sock puppet troll army. (If indeed that's what it is, and if I were a betting man I'd bet something on it.) These are folks who have always been kind of out there and fringe, but this is different and it's a bit disturbing. They've become mean-spirited in an odd kind of way that I've never seen associated with the fringe before (outside of certain conspiracy circles), and have started espousing stuff that sounds slightly to the right of Hitler despite having historically been left of center. The ideology sounds like a cross between radical environmentalism and neo-right eugenics stuff, like Rachel Carson and Julius Evola had a love child that was raised by Steve Sailer. One even started admiring ISIS, claiming that all the stories of their misdeeds are Western propaganda. It's depressing and a bit scary. Propaganda is real and it works, and anyone can be conned. A lot of 'alt' people pride themselves on their independence. Thinking you can't be conned makes you a better mark. The problem with the analysis you give is that the goal of the propaganda may not be to inspire pro-Putin or pro-Russia feelings in Americans. The goal may be to make Americans more angry, cynical, irrational, and distrustful of their own government, institutions, and each other. The race baiting is probably the most dangerous element of the propaganda. I wonder if there's any causal relationship between it and the outbreak of police violence and reciprocal radicalism we're seeing.

cryoshon 11y ago
The confounding problem here is that there is plenty of US-self-targeted propaganda, pushing and teasing in a million different directions without any central authority. How much of the race baiting is FoxNews doing because they know their viewers want it? My guess is most. US corporate propaganda is definitely living well right now, but what about self-targeted government propaganda? Are all those top-voted posts with the soldiers returning home to be greeted by their dog really occurring without any outside push? On the other hand, how much of the race baiting on the alt news sites is organic? How much of it would still be around if it wasn't the hot topic that everyone is being forced to pay attention to via the media? Finally, what is the real long term strategic goal of these propaganda campaigns? It's hard to see foreign propaganda ever being successful enough to deliver a geopolitical victory.
- api 11y ago
  Only the people doing it know the goal. I can speculate of course. It could just be standard 'fog of war' type stuff, or related to softening US public support for interventions against Russian actions in places like Ukraine. It could also have really specific goals you'd never guess without insider knowledge. I completely agree about there being more than one actor here. I just suspect Russia has a non-trivial role in the phenomenon I mention in my OP. The bottom line is that today's Internet is loaded with bullshit and propaganda and as time goes on seems to become less and less trustworthy as a source of information. That's a big problem.