5 ms·

Checked my parents PC on a visit this morning to find the latest Patch Tuesday set of updates hadn't installed automatically because Windows Update was too busy

by nly 11y ago

Checked my parents PC on a visit this morning to find the latest Patch Tuesday set of updates hadn't installed automatically because Windows Update was too busy advertising Windows 10. I was also greeted with a balloon popup rather than just the subtle GWX icon in the tray nagging me to install it. Microsoft are pushing this OS fervently and, given their aggressive service integration, I've recently been musing about whether the Microsoft of today are really 'better' just because they've become more open with their software, or whether they're actually just a different, possibly nastier, kind monopolistic threat. We could look back in 5 years and see the majority using Bing (via the Start Menu), Cortana, IE, OneDrive, and syncing all their devices through MS servers and cringe. Microsoft can't win on the strength of their brand when it comes to consumer facing services (except for Xbox), so maybe integration will see them break through and muscle out the likes of Chrome, Google, Gmail, Android, and Dropbox.... if W10 on mobile takes off that is. Oddly, despite not owning and having never owned any Apple product, I find myself comforted these days that they are there with an almost bottomless pile of money.

_pmf_ 11y ago
> just because they've become more open with their software Visual Studio Community Edition is unsuitable for any medium sized company. dotNET's openness does not extend to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms). The new openness is purely a communication effort; they take care to communicate their openness without changing anything. It's disconcerting to see that they need developers more than developers need them.
- manigandham 11y ago
  Any medium sized company probably shouldn't be using Visual Studio Community Edition... also it goes pretty far in what it can do from what I've seen.
  - _pmf_ 11y ago
    > also it goes pretty far in what it can do from what I've seen I'm not talking about the features; the license restricts usage by company size.
- nkassis 11y ago
  They are taking small steps one at a time. "dotNET's openness does not extend to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms)." Well I disagree with this, there is a lot of good stuff in what they are opening. The new version of Asp.Net, Roslyn, CLR and more are all interesting things that you can use to make real products without WPF and WinForms. Also they release other really cool things like TypeScript etc... I no Microsoft fan at all but you gotta give them some credit for what they did this past year.
- sklogic 11y ago
  > to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms) I always had an impression that all this GUI stuff is only interesting to a relatively small minority of the .NET users. Am I wrong?
- talles 11y ago
  > dotNET's openness does not extend to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms). Are you kidding me? https://github.com/dotnet/core https://github.com/dotnet/core https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn
- zamalek 11y ago
  VS community is unlicensed for any medium sized company. You can't complain about something that you are stealing.
  - marcosdumay 11y ago
    What? It's free software, but one does not have a license to use it? What kind of free software is that? (And no, I didn't read the license, I don't know either way.)
    - zamalek 11y ago
      It is freely licensed for personal, OSS and small teams. You do not get the free license grant for other uses. It's like using GPL code in closed source software. GPL is free but has conditions about that free license that gets granted to you. > I didn't read the license Oh boy... Keep that up and you're going to have interesting times ahead of you. Always read licenses, or at the very least (if you can't be asked to deal with legalese) find a summary somewhere.
      - marcosdumay 11y ago
        I don't use this software. I have no reason to read the license.
        zamalek 11y ago
        With such a snide retort, why ask for the facts in the first place?
amlgsmsn 11y ago
>updates hadn't installed automatically because Windows Update was too busy advertising Windows 10 That does not make much sense, if any. >We could look back in 5 years and see the majority using Bing (via the Start Menu), Cortana, IE, OneDrive, and syncing all their devices through MS servers and cringe And you aren't cringing at Google Now/Google Drive/Chrome? Why?
- vetinari 11y ago
  > And you aren't cringing at Google Now/Google Drive/Chrome? Why? Because there is a difference between "can voluntarily use" and "is rammed down your throat".
  - amlgsmsn 11y ago
    What about rules like the below on Android? (or Chromebooks where you cannot even install alternative native applications) > Devices may only be distributed if all Google Applications [listed elsewhere in the agreement] ... are pre-installed on the Device." >The phone manufacturer must "preload all Google Applications approved in the applicable Territory ... on each device." >The phone manufacturer must place "Google's Search and the Android Market Client icon [Google Play] ... at least on the panel immediately adjacent to the Default Home Screen," with "all other Google Applications ... no more than one level below the Phone Top." >The phone manufacturer must set "Google Search ... as the default search provider for all Web search access points." >If device owners hold down the physical “Home” button or “swipe up” from a digital home button or navigation bar, such actions should trigger Google Search. >must provide access to a “collection” of 13 Google apps (Google Chrome, Google Maps, Google Drive, YouTube, Gmail, Google+, Google Play Music, Google Play Movies, Google Play Books, Google Play Newsstand, Google Play Games, Google+ Photos and Google+ Hangouts). How is that not "rammed down your throat" ? Or do you really think Android users are "voluntarily installing" Google Play Newsstand?
    - nly 11y ago
      Last I heard you can ship Android without any Google components, you just can't call it Android. The real issue is popular apps like Snapchat and Maps that require Play Services. So manufacturers are never going to abandon the Goog for fear of their customers not being able to run the latest fad.
rndmind 11y ago
I installed Fedora 20 ( with the standard Gnome 3 desktop environment ) onto my parents PC a couple months ago. They love it and rave to other baby boomers how hassle free it is to us. I definitely recommend going that route. All they do is use the web browser and open office occasionally. Edit* fedora 20, not 22. ( that was the only ISO I had at the time )
- cozzyd 11y ago
  Fedora 20 was EOLed over a month ago... you should probably upgrade them to 22 (and fedup is relatively painless nowadays).
deciplex 11y ago
I've been bitching about KB3035583 here and on Reddit for the last few months and mostly getting downvoted for it, heh [1] Glad to see I'm not the only one. Also enjoying the schadenfreude in the wake of all the spyware W10 has shipped with. Given they don't have a problem installing adware on W7 and W8, it's a bit odd the level of surprise and shock and consternation, etc., when really anyone could have seen this coming if they'd just shut up for a minute and thought it through. C'est le vie. I really hope you're wrong about five years from now. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966970 <- list of HN users currently sending private data, keystrokes, etc, to MS servers :-)

by nly 11y ago

_pmf_ 11y ago

> just because they've become more open with their software Visual Studio Community Edition is unsuitable for any medium sized company. dotNET's openness does not extend to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms). The new openness is purely a communication effort; they take care to communicate their openness without changing anything. It's disconcerting to see that they need developers more than developers need them.

manigandham 11y ago
Any medium sized company probably shouldn't be using Visual Studio Community Edition... also it goes pretty far in what it can do from what I've seen.
- _pmf_ 11y ago
  > also it goes pretty far in what it can do from what I've seen I'm not talking about the features; the license restricts usage by company size.
nkassis 11y ago
They are taking small steps one at a time. "dotNET's openness does not extend to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms)." Well I disagree with this, there is a lot of good stuff in what they are opening. The new version of Asp.Net, Roslyn, CLR and more are all interesting things that you can use to make real products without WPF and WinForms. Also they release other really cool things like TypeScript etc... I no Microsoft fan at all but you gotta give them some credit for what they did this past year.
sklogic 11y ago
> to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms) I always had an impression that all this GUI stuff is only interesting to a relatively small minority of the .NET users. Am I wrong?
talles 11y ago
> dotNET's openness does not extend to the actually interesting parts (WPF, WinForms). Are you kidding me? https://github.com/dotnet/core https://github.com/dotnet/core https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn
zamalek 11y ago
VS community is unlicensed for any medium sized company. You can't complain about something that you are stealing.
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  What? It's free software, but one does not have a license to use it? What kind of free software is that? (And no, I didn't read the license, I don't know either way.)
  - zamalek 11y ago
    It is freely licensed for personal, OSS and small teams. You do not get the free license grant for other uses. It's like using GPL code in closed source software. GPL is free but has conditions about that free license that gets granted to you. > I didn't read the license Oh boy... Keep that up and you're going to have interesting times ahead of you. Always read licenses, or at the very least (if you can't be asked to deal with legalese) find a summary somewhere.
    - marcosdumay 11y ago
      I don't use this software. I have no reason to read the license.
      - zamalek 11y ago
        With such a snide retort, why ask for the facts in the first place?

amlgsmsn 11y ago

>updates hadn't installed automatically because Windows Update was too busy advertising Windows 10 That does not make much sense, if any. >We could look back in 5 years and see the majority using Bing (via the Start Menu), Cortana, IE, OneDrive, and syncing all their devices through MS servers and cringe And you aren't cringing at Google Now/Google Drive/Chrome? Why?

vetinari 11y ago
> And you aren't cringing at Google Now/Google Drive/Chrome? Why? Because there is a difference between "can voluntarily use" and "is rammed down your throat".
- amlgsmsn 11y ago
  What about rules like the below on Android? (or Chromebooks where you cannot even install alternative native applications) > Devices may only be distributed if all Google Applications [listed elsewhere in the agreement] ... are pre-installed on the Device." >The phone manufacturer must "preload all Google Applications approved in the applicable Territory ... on each device." >The phone manufacturer must place "Google's Search and the Android Market Client icon [Google Play] ... at least on the panel immediately adjacent to the Default Home Screen," with "all other Google Applications ... no more than one level below the Phone Top." >The phone manufacturer must set "Google Search ... as the default search provider for all Web search access points." >If device owners hold down the physical “Home” button or “swipe up” from a digital home button or navigation bar, such actions should trigger Google Search. >must provide access to a “collection” of 13 Google apps (Google Chrome, Google Maps, Google Drive, YouTube, Gmail, Google+, Google Play Music, Google Play Movies, Google Play Books, Google Play Newsstand, Google Play Games, Google+ Photos and Google+ Hangouts). How is that not "rammed down your throat" ? Or do you really think Android users are "voluntarily installing" Google Play Newsstand?
  - nly 11y ago
    Last I heard you can ship Android without any Google components, you just can't call it Android. The real issue is popular apps like Snapchat and Maps that require Play Services. So manufacturers are never going to abandon the Goog for fear of their customers not being able to run the latest fad.

rndmind 11y ago

I installed Fedora 20 ( with the standard Gnome 3 desktop environment ) onto my parents PC a couple months ago. They love it and rave to other baby boomers how hassle free it is to us. I definitely recommend going that route. All they do is use the web browser and open office occasionally. Edit* fedora 20, not 22. ( that was the only ISO I had at the time )

cozzyd 11y ago
Fedora 20 was EOLed over a month ago... you should probably upgrade them to 22 (and fedup is relatively painless nowadays).

deciplex 11y ago

I've been bitching about KB3035583 here and on Reddit for the last few months and mostly getting downvoted for it, heh [1] Glad to see I'm not the only one. Also enjoying the schadenfreude in the wake of all the spyware W10 has shipped with. Given they don't have a problem installing adware on W7 and W8, it's a bit odd the level of surprise and shock and consternation, etc., when really anyone could have seen this coming if they'd just shut up for a minute and thought it through. C'est le vie. I really hope you're wrong about five years from now. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966970 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966970 <- list of HN users currently sending private data, keystrokes, etc, to MS servers :-)