4 ms·

This is anecdotal, but when I was his age and getting into the "real" tech world (and getting my work recognized), I really disliked my age being made a big dea

This is anecdotal, but when I was his age and getting into the "real" tech world (and getting my work recognized), I really disliked my age being made a big deal. A big influence on my own view (and I think many others in this community) of being a "hacker" was Steven Levy's "Hacker Ethic", which specifically said: "Hackers should be judged by their hacking, not criteria such as degrees, age, race, sex, or position" While it is great that we recognize good work like this, bringing up his age in the title is focusing on a pretty irrelevant metric when we should focus on good work, no mater who makes it.

elliotec 11y ago
Sure, but it's impressive nonetheless. A 14 year old kid is building an operating system. What was I doing at 14? I was not building operating systems, thats for sure.
- trsohmers 11y ago
  That's not the point... by bringing up age as an important factor, you are then discounting the work. Personally, I would rather have my work valued the same way if I was 14 or 64... In the case of my current work, I would say I have put the same amount of time into learning and working as people twice my age (Though I guess that means I haven't had much of a life otherwsise, heh). Regardless of my age, I think my work should stand on its own against anything that currently exists. If you add an age qualifier, it does feel insulting (at least for me). I should also mention that I have used my age to my advantage in some cases, but I strongly dislike people who use it as their main selling point, such as when people brag about being a "young startup founder" etc.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    > That's not the point... by bringing up age as an important factor, you are then discounting the work. I see it rather the opposite. By mentioning his age the feat becomes all the more impressive.
    - teddyh 11y ago
      The feat becomes more impressive, yes, but not the work – i.e. the result. If I want to be a peer among peers and contribute to society on an equal level, I can’t have people going “Ooh, that’s very good for a cripple/child/blind person. When they do that, I can never know if I am actually good enough or if people are only patronizing me.
      - freyr 11y ago
        If you're seeking approval from other people to determine if you're "good enough," you're heading down the wrong path. Also, this is a ridiculous conversation. The actual work of these teenage wunderkinds is very rarely on par with the work of similarly talented, but more experienced professionals. It's almost always about the feat. And that's okay, because the feat is indicative of future potential.
  - tachion 11y ago
    > That's not the point... by bringing up age as an important factor, you are then discounting the work. I think this isnt valid in this case - the work is more impressive exactly because it is being done by someone that young, and this is so huge accomplishment because it is so much easier and more common thing to achieve at later age. I can't see his work being discounted here. > Regardless of my age, I think my work should stand on its own against anything that currently exists. I also can't agree with that - if you have 30 years of programming experience and what you're making are hello-world type of programs (that's what I was doing around 14) then you are obviously underperforming and simply doing bad. However, at 14 the very same work was already outstanding when compared to my friends at the same age, because most of what they were doing was running around on the yard. And none of them ended up as a professional runner (but still, they might be happier today than me, being professional hello-world engineer ;)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- KirinDave 11y ago
  It's not that you couldn't have, it's that you didn't. Although when I was 14, the references to do this were not readily available. With all credit to "Omar", it's also credit to how available and intelligible our reference material is for techniques like this. Honestly though, writing OSs? People make it magic. In reality, they're just programs. It's fun. There are even really smooth (albeit way outdated) tutorials like NachOS out there (https://www.ida.liu.se/~TDDI12/material/begguide/ https://www.ida.liu.se/~TDDI12/material/begguide/)
JDDunn9 11y ago
Maybe we should get rid of weight classes for boxing, women's leagues for sports, and anything that acknowledges accomplishments for anyone that is not 100% objectively the best on the planet.
- cbd1984 11y ago
  You're acting like this wouldn't be interesting if it were an adult doing it.
  - iopq 11y ago
    it wouldn't
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      I don't see why not, given that the threshold for plenty of Show HN entries that make it to the front page isn't high at all.
    - chetanahuja 11y ago
      it'll certainly be a lot more interesting than the umpteen "look at the latest js framework" or "I rewrote game <X> in <Y> number of lines of code".
- amelius 11y ago
  Sports are a "freak show" anyway, specifically since it is all about statistical outliers along a single axis.
ekianjo 11y ago
> "Hackers should be judged by their hacking, not criteria such as degrees, age, race, sex, or position" That should be valid for just any activity/profession, not just Hackers. I don't see the need for the specific segment here.
incepted 11y ago
> While it is great that we recognize good work like this, bringing up his age in the title is focusing on a pretty irrelevant It's relevant because it's remarkable and it puts the author in a much smaller circle than he would be if he were older. Trying to pretend otherwise is silly. Being able to read at age 18 is a lot less interesting than at age 4. Same goes for rare technical feats (and writing an OS is such a thing, most developers wouldn't be able to pull it off, so doing so at age 13 is certainly a lot more interesting than when you're older).
frest 11y ago
Regarding ExDOS (or your EyePC), would we be discussing it right now if it weren't for the creator's age? Not to discount this work, but if it had been the side project of a mid-career engineer, it would be a non-story. Not because the work is good or bad, but people simply wouldn't care. The point being, you benefitted tremendously by your work being judged relative to your age, so it seems disingenuous for you to suggest Omar shouldn't get the same treatment. I doubt ExDOS or EyePC will be remembered in the annals of history as engineering marvels, but that's irrelevant. They are indicators that the creator has the talent, intellect, and dedication to accomplish a lot in a very short amount of time, and they hint at great potential.
- trsohmers 11y ago
  Totally agree in regards to EyePC, but at that point (when I was 13) I had those sort of feelings. I prefaced my comment with that it was my opinion based on anecdotal evidence. Omar made a couple of comments here (which he seemed to have deleted) in which he said he was disappointed that his age was the main focus. The main reason I brought this up was because even today (I know 19 is still young, but I am a full adult with 6+ years of professional experience) I am still judged by my age by many people and not my actual work, and today I think my current work is actually something worthy of extreme interest regardless of who developed it or how old they are.

elliotec 11y ago

Sure, but it's impressive nonetheless. A 14 year old kid is building an operating system. What was I doing at 14? I was not building operating systems, thats for sure.

trsohmers 11y ago
That's not the point... by bringing up age as an important factor, you are then discounting the work. Personally, I would rather have my work valued the same way if I was 14 or 64... In the case of my current work, I would say I have put the same amount of time into learning and working as people twice my age (Though I guess that means I haven't had much of a life otherwsise, heh). Regardless of my age, I think my work should stand on its own against anything that currently exists. If you add an age qualifier, it does feel insulting (at least for me). I should also mention that I have used my age to my advantage in some cases, but I strongly dislike people who use it as their main selling point, such as when people brag about being a "young startup founder" etc.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  > That's not the point... by bringing up age as an important factor, you are then discounting the work. I see it rather the opposite. By mentioning his age the feat becomes all the more impressive.
  - teddyh 11y ago
    The feat becomes more impressive, yes, but not the work – i.e. the result. If I want to be a peer among peers and contribute to society on an equal level, I can’t have people going “Ooh, that’s very good for a cripple/child/blind person. When they do that, I can never know if I am actually good enough or if people are only patronizing me.
    - freyr 11y ago
      If you're seeking approval from other people to determine if you're "good enough," you're heading down the wrong path. Also, this is a ridiculous conversation. The actual work of these teenage wunderkinds is very rarely on par with the work of similarly talented, but more experienced professionals. It's almost always about the feat. And that's okay, because the feat is indicative of future potential.
- tachion 11y ago
  > That's not the point... by bringing up age as an important factor, you are then discounting the work. I think this isnt valid in this case - the work is more impressive exactly because it is being done by someone that young, and this is so huge accomplishment because it is so much easier and more common thing to achieve at later age. I can't see his work being discounted here. > Regardless of my age, I think my work should stand on its own against anything that currently exists. I also can't agree with that - if you have 30 years of programming experience and what you're making are hello-world type of programs (that's what I was doing around 14) then you are obviously underperforming and simply doing bad. However, at 14 the very same work was already outstanding when compared to my friends at the same age, because most of what they were doing was running around on the yard. And none of them ended up as a professional runner (but still, they might be happier today than me, being professional hello-world engineer ;)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
KirinDave 11y ago
It's not that you couldn't have, it's that you didn't. Although when I was 14, the references to do this were not readily available. With all credit to "Omar", it's also credit to how available and intelligible our reference material is for techniques like this. Honestly though, writing OSs? People make it magic. In reality, they're just programs. It's fun. There are even really smooth (albeit way outdated) tutorials like NachOS out there (https://www.ida.liu.se/~TDDI12/material/begguide/ https://www.ida.liu.se/~TDDI12/material/begguide/)

JDDunn9 11y ago

Maybe we should get rid of weight classes for boxing, women's leagues for sports, and anything that acknowledges accomplishments for anyone that is not 100% objectively the best on the planet.

cbd1984 11y ago
You're acting like this wouldn't be interesting if it were an adult doing it.
- iopq 11y ago
  it wouldn't
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    I don't see why not, given that the threshold for plenty of Show HN entries that make it to the front page isn't high at all.
  - chetanahuja 11y ago
    it'll certainly be a lot more interesting than the umpteen "look at the latest js framework" or "I rewrote game <X> in <Y> number of lines of code".
amelius 11y ago
Sports are a "freak show" anyway, specifically since it is all about statistical outliers along a single axis.

ekianjo 11y ago

> "Hackers should be judged by their hacking, not criteria such as degrees, age, race, sex, or position" That should be valid for just any activity/profession, not just Hackers. I don't see the need for the specific segment here.

incepted 11y ago

> While it is great that we recognize good work like this, bringing up his age in the title is focusing on a pretty irrelevant It's relevant because it's remarkable and it puts the author in a much smaller circle than he would be if he were older. Trying to pretend otherwise is silly. Being able to read at age 18 is a lot less interesting than at age 4. Same goes for rare technical feats (and writing an OS is such a thing, most developers wouldn't be able to pull it off, so doing so at age 13 is certainly a lot more interesting than when you're older).

frest 11y ago

Regarding ExDOS (or your EyePC), would we be discussing it right now if it weren't for the creator's age? Not to discount this work, but if it had been the side project of a mid-career engineer, it would be a non-story. Not because the work is good or bad, but people simply wouldn't care. The point being, you benefitted tremendously by your work being judged relative to your age, so it seems disingenuous for you to suggest Omar shouldn't get the same treatment. I doubt ExDOS or EyePC will be remembered in the annals of history as engineering marvels, but that's irrelevant. They are indicators that the creator has the talent, intellect, and dedication to accomplish a lot in a very short amount of time, and they hint at great potential.

trsohmers 11y ago
Totally agree in regards to EyePC, but at that point (when I was 13) I had those sort of feelings. I prefaced my comment with that it was my opinion based on anecdotal evidence. Omar made a couple of comments here (which he seemed to have deleted) in which he said he was disappointed that his age was the main focus. The main reason I brought this up was because even today (I know 19 is still young, but I am a full adult with 6+ years of professional experience) I am still judged by my age by many people and not my actual work, and today I think my current work is actually something worthy of extreme interest regardless of who developed it or how old they are.