17 ms·

Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

234 points by vyrotek 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
tigeba 11y ago
When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10, then custom install of VS, install IoT Templates, then about 30 more steps before you get the image to flash on your SD. How about a link to the image I can blast on the SD and kick the tires without a couple hours of downloading and installing prerequisites?
- ghurlman 11y ago
  While the tool to flash the SD that Microsoft built requires Windows 10, it doesn't require anything else besides a Pi: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm Granted, if you go through the developer site, it points you towards installing what you need to develop software for it. shrug
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    There are dozens of other tools available to do the same thing, and yet they had to go build their own?
    - pjc50 11y ago
      Microsoft: Not Invented Here
  - free652 11y ago
    >A PC running Windows 10 (Prepared in the previous step) That requirement itself is a big step: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm
    - hamburglar 11y ago
      Especially considering my 8.1 -> 10 upgrade has failed spectacularly several times. I'm not going and buying 10 at retail to try this shit out.
      - morganvachon 11y ago
        For what it's worth, I found on two of my systems that had issues with the upgrade, if I followed the upgrade/activation with a clean install of Windows 10 (giving up the option to return to the previous version of Windows) the installation worked great. I had different but equally show-stopping bugs on my Windows 7 workstation and my wife's Windows 7 laptop until I did that. On my wife's laptop I had even tried a fresh install of Windows 7 followed immediately by the upgrade and hit the same bugs as before (no "Modern" apps would load including Settings, and Explorer.exe was constantly crashing). A clean install of 10 fixed those issues and now it runs great.
      - jabits 11y ago
        Right on topic...
  - jsingleton 11y ago
    You can use this python script to convert the image to standard raw format: https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Then flash it with your normal tool such as dd or Win32DiskImager.
    - lawl 11y ago
      Thanks! Made a quick script with this to unpack the other stuff (I couldn't mount the ISO for some reason) however 7z seems to handle the ISO and the MSI file both just fine. In case you're interested: https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
      - jsingleton 11y ago
        Looks good, thanks. I'm on Windows but it should be pretty easy to port to batch or PowerShell. I've used 7z command line before for automation. The script makes an 8GB file by default but it should be possible to change that. Add a parameter for the size of the card or even auto-detect it. I've documented the process and written up my thoughts on IoT core here: https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-raspberry-pi-2-install-and-first-impressions/ https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-r...
  - lawl 11y ago
    Quickly made an unpacker script in bash, couldn't test it yet, but it looks like it works. You'll need 7zip and a working installation of python, https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
    - voltagex_ 11y ago
      https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/master/ffu2img/unlockerv.py https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/maste...?
      - lawl 11y ago
        It was in the repo I got the ffu2img script from, forgot to remove it, see https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Fixed now, thanks.
- Yuioup 11y ago
  I asked the very same question and got downvoted for it.
  - rsync 11y ago
    Do not discuss your own downvotes. Do not interrupt the actual discussion to meta-discuss the scoring system.
- kozukumi 11y ago
  Yeah I was excited to try it out but I can't spend a whole day on getting things working at the moment, just too damn busy. I was hoping I would get an iso I can dd onto an SD card pop it in the RPi and it boot up and give me an IP address to connect and deploy an app to in a few clicks. You know like how I can do with Linux. Still it is a step in the right direction for Microsoft. I am happy to see them doing such things. Competition in the IoT space is a good thing for all.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Agreed. There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through.
  - eplanit 11y ago
    > There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through. I agree, too -- and this phrase has been on the minds of people while installing Microsoft products for decades now. It's in their DNA somehow, it seems.
- blacksmith_tb 11y ago
  Maybe some selfless individual can slog through it all, and then use dd to make an image and post it somewhere (which I am sure violates thousands of pages of EULAs, but would be much more in keeping with how Raspbian etc. are distributed).
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- teekert 11y ago
  Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was created for learning! Even the example code (read I2C temp sensor, display using webserver) they give on the home page starts with: "// Copyright (c) Microsoft. All rights reserved.". Why would you want this? Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux?
  - nbadg 11y ago
    > Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as: with pin_1 as p1: p1.output(1) time.sleep(2) p1.output(0) Now, there are some libraries that approach that level of simplicity once you have your system configuration set up, but that doesn't lend itself to agile development. I want something that works like that out-of-box -- flash it, load code, press go button -- which simply doesn't exist. And, after spending a lot of time writing my own hardware IO library using direct memory access in Python, I don't think there's an OS out there that's capable of doing it (yet). I've spent just way too much time accommodating unfortunate abstractions taken at the linux kernel level (that I understand for historical reasons, but disagree with for future ones). An operating system for IoT done right is, in my opinion, a very lightweight exokernel with some really smart abstractions that just gets out of your way. Then you need a clever (and native) secure networking system, and you're in very good shape.
    - nitrogen 11y ago
      How does Arduino (which I've never used) compare to your desired Python library?
- bborud 11y ago
  Business as usual for Microsoft. There must be something about their business model I'm not getting. Going to microsoft.com with the intent of buying Windows to install it on a naked PC or in a VM on OSX, I have yet to identify an option that allows me to: 1) buy a license, 2) download an ISO image. The closest solution I've seen is to download some exe file that presupposes that I have Windows installed somewhere so I can....do god knows what to get an install going. I know what I came to the site for. Instead the site spends all its energy on selling me on the idea of Windows and then fails to sell me the product. Consistently. For years. Why? Do they not want my business? Is it really so horrible to sell their product to someone who wants to run their OS under VMWare? This is neither hyperbole nor gratuitous negativism, but Microsoft is perhaps the worst company to buy a product from online. Microsoft fixing this is the litmus test for when they might, and I would like to emphasize might, be able to stop sucking.
  - christoph 11y ago
    I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. Windows is only £80 or so and there was a big button on the nag screens that took me to the Windows site to buy a licence. Great - credit card in hand I clicked on through and was instantly greeted with buy Windows 8.1 screens. The problem is, I absolutely did not want under any circumstances to install 8.1. I just wanted a legit licence to the already installed 7, which the computer was quite happily running and required no learning/explaining of metro to my mother. For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it.
    - nadams 11y ago
      > I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. That has been known to happen [1] (it's never happened to me personally). I suspect it has something to do with buggy AV or anti-malware software. > For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it. You don't have a Best Buy type store near you? [1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/windows-7-hit-by-rash-of-bogus-not-genuine-reports-validation-code-0x8004fe21.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/w...
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img
  - tigeba 11y ago
    Most excellent.
rcarmo 11y ago
I'm curious as to the mention of a "Web Control" and how long we have to wait until we can use DirectX for graphics, seeing as I've been trying to use Pis for digital signage[1] for a while with varying results (we've since started using cheap Android boxes with great results, but I wish I had more choices). [1]: https://github.com/sapo/digital-signage-client https://github.com/sapo/digital-signage-client
- thenewwazoo 11y ago
  I had to recently roll my own signage solution and have built something I think is pretty compelling using Yocto[1]. I'm using CuBox-i devices running Linux and Midori (which is based on WebKit). I don't know if it does accelerated rendering but the boxes are much more powerful than Pis (and are a lot less dev-kit-y than Pis). If nothing else, hopefully a pointer to Yocto will be useful to you - it's pretty great. [1] https://github.com/luciddg/kiosk-yocto https://github.com/luciddg/kiosk-yocto
  - rcarmo 11y ago
    Thanks, I'll look into it. Right now the Android boxes we're using cost €50 (less if you buy in bulk) and do both accelerated rendering and HLS video, but I'm always looking out for more options.
- tomardern 11y ago
  What Android digital signage client are you using?
  - rcarmo 11y ago
    This one: https://github.com/sapo/android-signage-client https://github.com/sapo/android-signage-client (of course we rolled our own :))
typon 11y ago
Does it come with the same privacy issues as its older sister?
- cptskippy 11y ago
  It requires you to install Windows 10 on your Desktop so... yes.
jchrisa 11y ago
I'm in the middle of writing my first C# app, targeting the Intel IoT Gateway (all with MonoDevelop on Ubuntu.) How things come full circle...
joezydeco 11y ago
A robotic hockey table doesn't seem very IoT to me. I'm a little confused as to what Windows brings to the table for embedded devices at this point, especially screenless ones.
- tacos 11y ago
  Tools.
  - doomspork 11y ago
    I can't tell if you're making a joke or not.
    - thenewwazoo 11y ago
      Not. MS makes really, really killer tools.
      - ultramancool 11y ago
        Not really, they make okay tools that are extensible enough. Visual Studio is a great example of this. You basically need ReSharper and a hundred other addons to get anything serious done. Just try using VS for C++ development, even the primitive Qt Creator tops it.
        pjmlp 11y ago
        I imagine you never used VC++ debugger...
        ultramancool 11y ago
        I have quite regularly, but I'm just as comfortable in that of Eclipse, Qt Creator, gdb, or even binary debuggers like IDA's or OllyDbg for reverse engineering. I don't see it as a major advantage over any other platform. It's a simple GUI debugger, nothing fancy. Am I missing something?
lhaussknecht 11y ago
Sad that they showed a node example. What about asp.net on .net core?
- serichsen 11y ago
  Yeah! Or COBOL! PHP! INTERCAL!
  - tychuz 11y ago
    ASP.NET is not oldschool - it has MVC (with best templating language - Razor), real time with SignalR. Stop living in Visual Basic and Web Forms age...
doomspork 11y ago
Next on the list of bad IoT ideas, we port Flash to the Raspberry Pi.
- tankenmate 11y ago
  In fact there is already a Pepper plugin for Flash that works on RPi2; you can get it from an ARMv7 version of ChromeOS.
- TD-Linux 11y ago
  Or even worse, use Flash for a car instrument cluster. Oh wait, that's already been done: https://www.adobe.com/inspire-archive/june2010/articles/article6/index.html?trackingid=GXWGB https://www.adobe.com/inspire-archive/june2010/articles/arti... (used by a lot of Ford cars)
escobar 11y ago
There's a heading that reads: > Developers, Developers, Developers I've always cracked up whenever I see Ballmer's developers video, so I was pretty happy that Microsoft's IoT team has a sense of humor and was able to get that approved (if they had to) reference if you haven't seen the original Ballmer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs
- _lce0 11y ago
  the guy is hilarious at the stage: https://youtu.be/I14b-C67EXY?t=12s https://youtu.be/I14b-C67EXY?t=12s
- meburns 11y ago
  Yes! This made me so happy when I got to that section :)
jbb555 11y ago
Does this run win32 applications?
- cube00 11y ago
  No, but it will run apps that use a subset of the API for universal apps (ie. the app must be able to handle some parts of the API missing) https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/dn726767.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/dn726767.asp...
intrasight 11y ago
I just don't get why they would put up a barrier to entry by requiring Windows 10 - at least I can't think of any technical rationale.
- ultramancool 11y ago
  Well, you can always patch the check out and find out what happens.
- elchief 11y ago
  probably for the same reason that Apple requires you to own a mac to build an iPhone app
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    That's not the same at all. This is literally just putting an image on an SD card.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      An image that is only useful if you have a Windows 10 app to run in it. It lacks a Windows shell.
  - TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
    Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product. So no - there is no good reason for making Win 10 essential, beyond corporate dementia. Seriously. Why on Earth does MS seem to think there's going to be a stampede to install an OS that doesn't do anything outstandingly special, has a high cost of entry (in time and effort, if you don't want Win 10) and is already competing with a good few established contenders?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      > Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product. Windows 10 IoT Core doesn't have a shell. It's only worth putting on the Pi if you have a Windows 10 app developed for it.
mtgx 11y ago
Supporting a proprietary platform on Raspberry Pi kind of defeats the point of the openness on which Raspberry Pi was built, no?
- elsjaako 11y ago
  I don't see how you can practically have an open platform and then close it off to proprietary things.
  - jackweirdy 11y ago
    The commenter isn't saying it should be blocked, they're saying it's against the spirit of openness.
    - elsjaako 11y ago
      They were talking about "Supporting a proprietary platform", and I assumed they meant the hardware supporting Windows. If the hardware supporting Windows is somehow bad, that implies removing that support would be better. Maybe I'm wrong and they mean a person or organization, in which case I'm not sure who they mean. Windows does not appear on the official Raspberry Pi website front page or blog.
- joshuapants 11y ago
  The Raspberry Pi may be openwashed, but it's not really that open. edit: oh no, I've run afoul of the Broadcom shills. Oh well.
  - Jedd 11y ago
    True assessment or not, it's not a compelling reason in itself to encourage less free use(r)s of it.
    - joshuapants 11y ago
      Beg pardon? The parent post was whining that running Windows wasn't in the open spirit of the project. The project was never open in a meaningful way, so it doesn't seem like a problem at all to do so. I'm not encouraging any particular software package, simply correcting a misconception.
joeyspn 11y ago
Sincerely I prefer to run ubuntu. Last week I installed Ubuntu Server 14.04 in my Pi 2 and it works like a charm. Totally recommended... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi Ubuntu Snappy Core (also marketed for IoT)... mmm not so much great. IMO still few community and howtos for building your snappy apps (even Raspbian is better)
MrZongle2 11y ago
I'd love to try this out. But I have zero interest in migrating any of my perfectly fine Windows 7 systems to Windows 10. Other than a shiny "FREE!" sticker, I have yet to see a compelling case for me to upgrade.
pen2l 11y ago
Sorry, silly question: can one use this Win10 R-pi as a "real computer"? (more to the point: I want to run labview programs on this r-pi, because of its small size/cost -- give/receive triggers various home automation equipment etc., I'm wondering if that'll be possible with this)
- preya2k 11y ago
  Probably not since there is no GUI and regular Windows command line tools won't run out of the box.
  - andycross 11y ago
    It has a gui. It supports headed and headless modes. you're right tho, most tools from win32 won't work.
    - chadzawistowski 11y ago
      Headed-mode runs a single XAML app in fullscreen, and there is no taskbar or start menu or anything.
    - Matthias247 11y ago
      I'm guessing it can also only run the new universal windows apps. The classical desktop apps are only available on x86 - which the Pi is not.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  No, this will not work as a regular desktop Windows. It's more of an embedded Windows install.
- miguelrochefort 11y ago
  You can install LabView on it, just not if the OS is Windows 10 IoT. http://forums.ni.com/t5/LabVIEW-Idea-Exchange/LabVIEW-for-Raspberry-Pi/idi-p/2082026 http://forums.ni.com/t5/LabVIEW-Idea-Exchange/LabVIEW-for-Ra...
MiguelHudnandez 11y ago
For anyone wondering what IoT stands for, it's "Internet of Things."
VLM 11y ago
License? Seems hard to find online. Not looking for anything unusual for the existing raspi community, just what do I have to do to make a project on it then distribute a bootable sdcard image to users around the world for free. I'm guessing its a total non-starter but if I were surprised by it being BSD/GPL that would be interesting. The hardware compatibility part of the release notes look like a bad linux install from 1995, which is pretty funny.
jpablo 11y ago
Seeing that they just added Wi-Fi and Bluetooth support I find ironic that Windows has the disadvantage on drivers and Linux has the upper hand.
stillsut 11y ago
The AirHockey Demo seems like a complete rip-off of a Spanish maker's product, which he has been promoting: https://github.com/JJulio/AHRobot https://github.com/JJulio/AHRobot Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some credit is due
revelation 11y ago
Is the Internet of Things now a Raspberry Pi 2?! A quad-core 900MHz CPU with a whopping 1GiB of RAM and a dedicated GPU? So, for how long can you run a RPi 2 from a CR2032 cell or an AAA battery? A minute or two on full bore? Because that's the kind of energy budget people are generally talking about when they mean internet of things. The RPi2 is a fully-featured media center, not a door lock or light switch or power sensor. I guess the problem for Microsoft with the whole IoT thing is simply that they will never have Windows there, the devices you actually use for IoT measure their RAM in KiB. And, frankly, operating systems are very far down the on list of things we need to make IoT a reality.
williesleg 11y ago
Why would anyone want to put such closed-source bloatware licenceware with no future on anything? It's a trap!
pedalpete 11y ago
I've got an Intel Galilleo that Microsoft sent me which I was hoping to use to play with the embedded windows platform, but it was so locked down, all you could do was write arduino sketches, now they release their Windows for IoT and it only works on Raspberry Pi 2? I've got beaglebones and RPis that I'd love to give Windows 10 a play on, but they've shot themselves in the foot by supporting such a small part of the hardware market. I've been a microsoft fan for a long time, I have a Windows 10 laptop, Windows Phone, and want to at least give them a try for IoT (though I have no problem with my linux installs), but I think they've lost me on this one. Who thought they could come into a market which is well served by the linux community, offer very little if anything compared to what is already available, make it difficult to install, have it work on a small subset of hardware, and make it a success. I don't understand Microsoft's strategy here at all!
dafrankenstein2 11y ago
thats awesome!

234 points by vyrotek 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10, then custom install of VS, install IoT Templates, then about 30 more steps before you get the image to flash on your SD. How about a link to the image I can blast on the SD and kick the tires without a couple hours of downloading and installing prerequisites?

ghurlman 11y ago
While the tool to flash the SD that Microsoft built requires Windows 10, it doesn't require anything else besides a Pi: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm Granted, if you go through the developer site, it points you towards installing what you need to develop software for it. shrug
- s73v3r 11y ago
  There are dozens of other tools available to do the same thing, and yet they had to go build their own?
  - pjc50 11y ago
    Microsoft: Not Invented Here
- free652 11y ago
  >A PC running Windows 10 (Prepared in the previous step) That requirement itself is a big step: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupPCRPI.htm
  - hamburglar 11y ago
    Especially considering my 8.1 -> 10 upgrade has failed spectacularly several times. I'm not going and buying 10 at retail to try this shit out.
    - morganvachon 11y ago
      For what it's worth, I found on two of my systems that had issues with the upgrade, if I followed the upgrade/activation with a clean install of Windows 10 (giving up the option to return to the previous version of Windows) the installation worked great. I had different but equally show-stopping bugs on my Windows 7 workstation and my wife's Windows 7 laptop until I did that. On my wife's laptop I had even tried a fresh install of Windows 7 followed immediately by the upgrade and hit the same bugs as before (no "Modern" apps would load including Settings, and Explorer.exe was constantly crashing). A clean install of 10 fixed those issues and now it runs great.
    - jabits 11y ago
      Right on topic...
- jsingleton 11y ago
  You can use this python script to convert the image to standard raw format: https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Then flash it with your normal tool such as dd or Win32DiskImager.
  - lawl 11y ago
    Thanks! Made a quick script with this to unpack the other stuff (I couldn't mount the ISO for some reason) however 7z seems to handle the ISO and the MSI file both just fine. In case you're interested: https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
    - jsingleton 11y ago
      Looks good, thanks. I'm on Windows but it should be pretty easy to port to batch or PowerShell. I've used 7z command line before for automation. The script makes an 8GB file by default but it should be possible to change that. Add a parameter for the size of the card or even auto-detect it. I've documented the process and written up my thoughts on IoT core here: https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-raspberry-pi-2-install-and-first-impressions/ https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-r...
- lawl 11y ago
  Quickly made an unpacker script in bash, couldn't test it yet, but it looks like it works. You'll need 7zip and a working installation of python, https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/master/ffu2img/unlockerv.py https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker/blob/maste...?
    - lawl 11y ago
      It was in the repo I got the ffu2img script from, forgot to remove it, see https://github.com/t0x0/random https://github.com/t0x0/random Fixed now, thanks.
Yuioup 11y ago
I asked the very same question and got downvoted for it.
- rsync 11y ago
  Do not discuss your own downvotes. Do not interrupt the actual discussion to meta-discuss the scoring system.
kozukumi 11y ago
Yeah I was excited to try it out but I can't spend a whole day on getting things working at the moment, just too damn busy. I was hoping I would get an iso I can dd onto an SD card pop it in the RPi and it boot up and give me an IP address to connect and deploy an app to in a few clicks. You know like how I can do with Linux. Still it is a step in the right direction for Microsoft. I am happy to see them doing such things. Competition in the IoT space is a good thing for all.
s73v3r 11y ago
Agreed. There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through.
- eplanit 11y ago
  > There is absolutely no excuse for having all that crap to go through. I agree, too -- and this phrase has been on the minds of people while installing Microsoft products for decades now. It's in their DNA somehow, it seems.
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
Maybe some selfless individual can slog through it all, and then use dd to make an image and post it somewhere (which I am sure violates thousands of pages of EULAs, but would be much more in keeping with how Raspbian etc. are distributed).
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
teekert 11y ago
Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was created for learning! Even the example code (read I2C temp sensor, display using webserver) they give on the home page starts with: "// Copyright (c) Microsoft. All rights reserved.". Why would you want this? Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux?
- nbadg 11y ago
  > Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as: with pin_1 as p1: p1.output(1) time.sleep(2) p1.output(0) Now, there are some libraries that approach that level of simplicity once you have your system configuration set up, but that doesn't lend itself to agile development. I want something that works like that out-of-box -- flash it, load code, press go button -- which simply doesn't exist. And, after spending a lot of time writing my own hardware IO library using direct memory access in Python, I don't think there's an OS out there that's capable of doing it (yet). I've spent just way too much time accommodating unfortunate abstractions taken at the linux kernel level (that I understand for historical reasons, but disagree with for future ones). An operating system for IoT done right is, in my opinion, a very lightweight exokernel with some really smart abstractions that just gets out of your way. Then you need a clever (and native) secure networking system, and you're in very good shape.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    How does Arduino (which I've never used) compare to your desired Python library?
bborud 11y ago
Business as usual for Microsoft. There must be something about their business model I'm not getting. Going to microsoft.com with the intent of buying Windows to install it on a naked PC or in a VM on OSX, I have yet to identify an option that allows me to: 1) buy a license, 2) download an ISO image. The closest solution I've seen is to download some exe file that presupposes that I have Windows installed somewhere so I can....do god knows what to get an install going. I know what I came to the site for. Instead the site spends all its energy on selling me on the idea of Windows and then fails to sell me the product. Consistently. For years. Why? Do they not want my business? Is it really so horrible to sell their product to someone who wants to run their OS under VMWare? This is neither hyperbole nor gratuitous negativism, but Microsoft is perhaps the worst company to buy a product from online. Microsoft fixing this is the litmus test for when they might, and I would like to emphasize might, be able to stop sucking.
- christoph 11y ago
  I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. Windows is only £80 or so and there was a big button on the nag screens that took me to the Windows site to buy a licence. Great - credit card in hand I clicked on through and was instantly greeted with buy Windows 8.1 screens. The problem is, I absolutely did not want under any circumstances to install 8.1. I just wanted a legit licence to the already installed 7, which the computer was quite happily running and required no learning/explaining of metro to my mother. For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it.
  - nadams 11y ago
    > I suffered this with a 2nd hand Windows 7 computer my mother was using that kept complaining about being counterfeit. That has been known to happen [1] (it's never happened to me personally). I suspect it has something to do with buggy AV or anti-malware software. > For nearly 1 hour I tried to find a way to buy that Windows 7 licence key and found absolutely no way to do it. You don't have a Best Buy type store near you? [1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/windows-7-hit-by-rash-of-bogus-not-genuine-reports-validation-code-0x8004fe21.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2859267/operating-systems/w...
voltagex_ 11y ago
https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img https://github.com/t0x0/random/wiki/ffu2img
- tigeba 11y ago
  Most excellent.

rcarmo 11y ago

I'm curious as to the mention of a "Web Control" and how long we have to wait until we can use DirectX for graphics, seeing as I've been trying to use Pis for digital signage[1] for a while with varying results (we've since started using cheap Android boxes with great results, but I wish I had more choices). [1]: https://github.com/sapo/digital-signage-client https://github.com/sapo/digital-signage-client

thenewwazoo 11y ago
I had to recently roll my own signage solution and have built something I think is pretty compelling using Yocto[1]. I'm using CuBox-i devices running Linux and Midori (which is based on WebKit). I don't know if it does accelerated rendering but the boxes are much more powerful than Pis (and are a lot less dev-kit-y than Pis). If nothing else, hopefully a pointer to Yocto will be useful to you - it's pretty great. [1] https://github.com/luciddg/kiosk-yocto https://github.com/luciddg/kiosk-yocto
- rcarmo 11y ago
  Thanks, I'll look into it. Right now the Android boxes we're using cost €50 (less if you buy in bulk) and do both accelerated rendering and HLS video, but I'm always looking out for more options.
tomardern 11y ago
What Android digital signage client are you using?
- rcarmo 11y ago
  This one: https://github.com/sapo/android-signage-client https://github.com/sapo/android-signage-client (of course we rolled our own :))

typon 11y ago

Does it come with the same privacy issues as its older sister?

cptskippy 11y ago
It requires you to install Windows 10 on your Desktop so... yes.

jchrisa 11y ago

I'm in the middle of writing my first C# app, targeting the Intel IoT Gateway (all with MonoDevelop on Ubuntu.) How things come full circle...

joezydeco 11y ago

A robotic hockey table doesn't seem very IoT to me. I'm a little confused as to what Windows brings to the table for embedded devices at this point, especially screenless ones.

tacos 11y ago
Tools.
- doomspork 11y ago
  I can't tell if you're making a joke or not.
  - thenewwazoo 11y ago
    Not. MS makes really, really killer tools.
    - ultramancool 11y ago
      Not really, they make okay tools that are extensible enough. Visual Studio is a great example of this. You basically need ReSharper and a hundred other addons to get anything serious done. Just try using VS for C++ development, even the primitive Qt Creator tops it.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        I imagine you never used VC++ debugger...
        ultramancool 11y ago
        I have quite regularly, but I'm just as comfortable in that of Eclipse, Qt Creator, gdb, or even binary debuggers like IDA's or OllyDbg for reverse engineering. I don't see it as a major advantage over any other platform. It's a simple GUI debugger, nothing fancy. Am I missing something?

lhaussknecht 11y ago

Sad that they showed a node example. What about asp.net on .net core?

serichsen 11y ago
Yeah! Or COBOL! PHP! INTERCAL!
- tychuz 11y ago
  ASP.NET is not oldschool - it has MVC (with best templating language - Razor), real time with SignalR. Stop living in Visual Basic and Web Forms age...

doomspork 11y ago

Next on the list of bad IoT ideas, we port Flash to the Raspberry Pi.

tankenmate 11y ago
In fact there is already a Pepper plugin for Flash that works on RPi2; you can get it from an ARMv7 version of ChromeOS.
TD-Linux 11y ago
Or even worse, use Flash for a car instrument cluster. Oh wait, that's already been done: https://www.adobe.com/inspire-archive/june2010/articles/article6/index.html?trackingid=GXWGB https://www.adobe.com/inspire-archive/june2010/articles/arti... (used by a lot of Ford cars)

escobar 11y ago

There's a heading that reads: > Developers, Developers, Developers I've always cracked up whenever I see Ballmer's developers video, so I was pretty happy that Microsoft's IoT team has a sense of humor and was able to get that approved (if they had to) reference if you haven't seen the original Ballmer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

_lce0 11y ago
the guy is hilarious at the stage: https://youtu.be/I14b-C67EXY?t=12s https://youtu.be/I14b-C67EXY?t=12s
meburns 11y ago
Yes! This made me so happy when I got to that section :)

jbb555 11y ago

Does this run win32 applications?

cube00 11y ago
No, but it will run apps that use a subset of the API for universal apps (ie. the app must be able to handle some parts of the API missing) https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/dn726767.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/dn726767.asp...

intrasight 11y ago

I just don't get why they would put up a barrier to entry by requiring Windows 10 - at least I can't think of any technical rationale.

ultramancool 11y ago
Well, you can always patch the check out and find out what happens.
elchief 11y ago
probably for the same reason that Apple requires you to own a mac to build an iPhone app
- s73v3r 11y ago
  That's not the same at all. This is literally just putting an image on an SD card.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    An image that is only useful if you have a Windows 10 app to run in it. It lacks a Windows shell.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product. So no - there is no good reason for making Win 10 essential, beyond corporate dementia. Seriously. Why on Earth does MS seem to think there's going to be a stampede to install an OS that doesn't do anything outstandingly special, has a high cost of entry (in time and effort, if you don't want Win 10) and is already competing with a good few established contenders?
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    > Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product. Windows 10 IoT Core doesn't have a shell. It's only worth putting on the Pi if you have a Windows 10 app developed for it.

mtgx 11y ago

Supporting a proprietary platform on Raspberry Pi kind of defeats the point of the openness on which Raspberry Pi was built, no?

elsjaako 11y ago
I don't see how you can practically have an open platform and then close it off to proprietary things.
- jackweirdy 11y ago
  The commenter isn't saying it should be blocked, they're saying it's against the spirit of openness.
  - elsjaako 11y ago
    They were talking about "Supporting a proprietary platform", and I assumed they meant the hardware supporting Windows. If the hardware supporting Windows is somehow bad, that implies removing that support would be better. Maybe I'm wrong and they mean a person or organization, in which case I'm not sure who they mean. Windows does not appear on the official Raspberry Pi website front page or blog.
joshuapants 11y ago
The Raspberry Pi may be openwashed, but it's not really that open. edit: oh no, I've run afoul of the Broadcom shills. Oh well.
- Jedd 11y ago
  True assessment or not, it's not a compelling reason in itself to encourage less free use(r)s of it.
  - joshuapants 11y ago
    Beg pardon? The parent post was whining that running Windows wasn't in the open spirit of the project. The project was never open in a meaningful way, so it doesn't seem like a problem at all to do so. I'm not encouraging any particular software package, simply correcting a misconception.

joeyspn 11y ago

Sincerely I prefer to run ubuntu. Last week I installed Ubuntu Server 14.04 in my Pi 2 and it works like a charm. Totally recommended... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi Ubuntu Snappy Core (also marketed for IoT)... mmm not so much great. IMO still few community and howtos for building your snappy apps (even Raspbian is better)

MrZongle2 11y ago

I'd love to try this out. But I have zero interest in migrating any of my perfectly fine Windows 7 systems to Windows 10. Other than a shiny "FREE!" sticker, I have yet to see a compelling case for me to upgrade.

pen2l 11y ago

Sorry, silly question: can one use this Win10 R-pi as a "real computer"? (more to the point: I want to run labview programs on this r-pi, because of its small size/cost -- give/receive triggers various home automation equipment etc., I'm wondering if that'll be possible with this)

preya2k 11y ago
Probably not since there is no GUI and regular Windows command line tools won't run out of the box.
- andycross 11y ago
  It has a gui. It supports headed and headless modes. you're right tho, most tools from win32 won't work.
  - chadzawistowski 11y ago
    Headed-mode runs a single XAML app in fullscreen, and there is no taskbar or start menu or anything.
  - Matthias247 11y ago
    I'm guessing it can also only run the new universal windows apps. The classical desktop apps are only available on x86 - which the Pi is not.
s73v3r 11y ago
No, this will not work as a regular desktop Windows. It's more of an embedded Windows install.
miguelrochefort 11y ago
You can install LabView on it, just not if the OS is Windows 10 IoT. http://forums.ni.com/t5/LabVIEW-Idea-Exchange/LabVIEW-for-Raspberry-Pi/idi-p/2082026 http://forums.ni.com/t5/LabVIEW-Idea-Exchange/LabVIEW-for-Ra...

MiguelHudnandez 11y ago

For anyone wondering what IoT stands for, it's "Internet of Things."

VLM 11y ago

License? Seems hard to find online. Not looking for anything unusual for the existing raspi community, just what do I have to do to make a project on it then distribute a bootable sdcard image to users around the world for free. I'm guessing its a total non-starter but if I were surprised by it being BSD/GPL that would be interesting. The hardware compatibility part of the release notes look like a bad linux install from 1995, which is pretty funny.

jpablo 11y ago

Seeing that they just added Wi-Fi and Bluetooth support I find ironic that Windows has the disadvantage on drivers and Linux has the upper hand.

stillsut 11y ago

The AirHockey Demo seems like a complete rip-off of a Spanish maker's product, which he has been promoting: https://github.com/JJulio/AHRobot https://github.com/JJulio/AHRobot Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some credit is due

revelation 11y ago

Is the Internet of Things now a Raspberry Pi 2?! A quad-core 900MHz CPU with a whopping 1GiB of RAM and a dedicated GPU? So, for how long can you run a RPi 2 from a CR2032 cell or an AAA battery? A minute or two on full bore? Because that's the kind of energy budget people are generally talking about when they mean internet of things. The RPi2 is a fully-featured media center, not a door lock or light switch or power sensor. I guess the problem for Microsoft with the whole IoT thing is simply that they will never have Windows there, the devices you actually use for IoT measure their RAM in KiB. And, frankly, operating systems are very far down the on list of things we need to make IoT a reality.

williesleg 11y ago

Why would anyone want to put such closed-source bloatware licenceware with no future on anything? It's a trap!

pedalpete 11y ago

I've got an Intel Galilleo that Microsoft sent me which I was hoping to use to play with the embedded windows platform, but it was so locked down, all you could do was write arduino sketches, now they release their Windows for IoT and it only works on Raspberry Pi 2? I've got beaglebones and RPis that I'd love to give Windows 10 a play on, but they've shot themselves in the foot by supporting such a small part of the hardware market. I've been a microsoft fan for a long time, I have a Windows 10 laptop, Windows Phone, and want to at least give them a try for IoT (though I have no problem with my linux installs), but I think they've lost me on this one. Who thought they could come into a market which is well served by the linux community, offer very little if anything compared to what is already available, make it difficult to install, have it work on a small subset of hardware, and make it a success. I don't understand Microsoft's strategy here at all!

dafrankenstein2 11y ago

thats awesome!