6 ms·

This is kind of a straw man, isn't it? I realize the article leads with "exercise in a pill," but it's really about a compound that might help treat obesity and

by gnoway 11y ago

This is kind of a straw man, isn't it? I realize the article leads with "exercise in a pill," but it's really about a compound that might help treat obesity and type 2 diabetes. Effect on lifespan/healthspan is only implied (via treatment of disease). Edit: you might also want to be a little more up-front about your apparent involvement with alternative avenues of research.

reasonattlm 11y ago
It leads with exercise in a pill because AMPK manipulation is broadly expected to be a path towards an exercise mimetic. Go do some background reading on AMPK and related proteins and pathways and their effects on longevity and health in lower animals. What I find annoying about this reporting is that it is being spun as a success when by all measures it is a failure. It is a failure in exactly the same way sirtuin research was a failure, in that it only appears to produce benefits in metabolically abnormal individuals, and even then they are not high quality benefits. Meaning it isn't at all what was aimed for: the researchers have failed in even their original modest goals of slightly slowing aging by recapitulating the broad effects of exercise. Of course you can still make a profit selling very marginal treatments for type 2 diabetes to people who have that condition because they are obese and thus metabolically abnormal. This is a condition that can actually be reversed right up until very late stages by dietary restriction ( http://dx.doi.org/10.2337/db11-1835 http://dx.doi.org/10.2337/db11-1835, http://www.bbc.com/news/health-13887909 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-13887909 ), for all that few people appear to either know or be willing to act on that knowledge. The sort of therapies that might result from AMPK manipulation would be terrible in comparison to the outcome of just eating less. But that has nothing to do with making real progress in medicine. Medical research in general is so very vulnerable to disruption: you have entrenched groups producing terrible products at massive cost under heavy regulation in the midst of a revolution in the underlying technologies and plummeting costs of creating new knowledge and therapies. Something has to give.
singulaire 11y ago
If the function of the pill is solely to mimic exercise, then it does not offer any new treatment. Obesity and diabetes can be treated just as well right now, and the treatment is exercise.
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  Or, or, hear me out here: what if you took the pill and exercised? There's only so many hours in the day. If a pill could perfectly mimic sleep, would you not take some?
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  Obesity and diabetes are not treated with exercise, they're treated with diet. Exercise helps, but neither condition responds to exercise alone.
simplexion 11y ago
What does "treat obesity" even mean? Obesity is a self-inflicted issue. Consuming more calories than you burn is all it is. Nothing more. Obese people need to have their food intake restricted. There is nothing to treat.
- Abraln 11y ago
  Agreed. The ethical implications of this also need to be considered. As much as I hate the "think of the starving children in ___" trope, artificially increasing your matabolism is increasing the amount of calories humanity needs to produce, and if use becomes widespread, could add up to a significant amount.
- fasteo 11y ago
  >>>> Obesity is a self-inflicted issue.Consuming more calories than you burn is all it is. - Why is this restaurant always full of people ? - Because there are more people entering the exiting. Really ? Maybe it has to do with the food quality, price, customer care, the location of the place, etc, etc. See, explaining obesity with the simple calories-in, calories-out argument tell nothing about the root cause of this disease. Take a look at Dr. Guyenet blog[1] for a fascinating view of this issue. [1] http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com
  - simplexion 11y ago
    Stop calling it a disease. It gives obese people an excuse.
    - fasteo 11y ago
      >>>> Stop calling it a disease Let me decide when I stop calling things. >>>> It gives obese people an excuse. Over-simplification of a complex issue. I have never been obese. I am 45 years old in a couple of days and I can see my abs. Unfortunately, I have a genetic defect that affects my metabolism, giving me a intermittent and profound fatigue every now and then. After reading, thinking and talking to dozens of doctors about the whole metabolic process, I have come to the conclusion that obesity is indeed a disease. In the same way, when fatigue kicks-in, I just cannot avoid being tired: I am not lazy, I exercise every day, I eat clean and sleep 7-8 hours every single night but I just cannot avoid being tired. For casual observers, they will think that I am a lazy, but the truth is quite different. This same analogy applies to obesity.

by gnoway 11y ago

reasonattlm 11y ago

It leads with exercise in a pill because AMPK manipulation is broadly expected to be a path towards an exercise mimetic. Go do some background reading on AMPK and related proteins and pathways and their effects on longevity and health in lower animals. What I find annoying about this reporting is that it is being spun as a success when by all measures it is a failure. It is a failure in exactly the same way sirtuin research was a failure, in that it only appears to produce benefits in metabolically abnormal individuals, and even then they are not high quality benefits. Meaning it isn't at all what was aimed for: the researchers have failed in even their original modest goals of slightly slowing aging by recapitulating the broad effects of exercise. Of course you can still make a profit selling very marginal treatments for type 2 diabetes to people who have that condition because they are obese and thus metabolically abnormal. This is a condition that can actually be reversed right up until very late stages by dietary restriction ( http://dx.doi.org/10.2337/db11-1835 http://dx.doi.org/10.2337/db11-1835, http://www.bbc.com/news/health-13887909 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-13887909 ), for all that few people appear to either know or be willing to act on that knowledge. The sort of therapies that might result from AMPK manipulation would be terrible in comparison to the outcome of just eating less. But that has nothing to do with making real progress in medicine. Medical research in general is so very vulnerable to disruption: you have entrenched groups producing terrible products at massive cost under heavy regulation in the midst of a revolution in the underlying technologies and plummeting costs of creating new knowledge and therapies. Something has to give.

singulaire 11y ago

If the function of the pill is solely to mimic exercise, then it does not offer any new treatment. Obesity and diabetes can be treated just as well right now, and the treatment is exercise.

Dylan16807 11y ago
Or, or, hear me out here: what if you took the pill and exercised? There's only so many hours in the day. If a pill could perfectly mimic sleep, would you not take some?
vinceguidry 11y ago
Obesity and diabetes are not treated with exercise, they're treated with diet. Exercise helps, but neither condition responds to exercise alone.

simplexion 11y ago

What does "treat obesity" even mean? Obesity is a self-inflicted issue. Consuming more calories than you burn is all it is. Nothing more. Obese people need to have their food intake restricted. There is nothing to treat.

Abraln 11y ago
Agreed. The ethical implications of this also need to be considered. As much as I hate the "think of the starving children in ___" trope, artificially increasing your matabolism is increasing the amount of calories humanity needs to produce, and if use becomes widespread, could add up to a significant amount.
fasteo 11y ago
>>>> Obesity is a self-inflicted issue.Consuming more calories than you burn is all it is. - Why is this restaurant always full of people ? - Because there are more people entering the exiting. Really ? Maybe it has to do with the food quality, price, customer care, the location of the place, etc, etc. See, explaining obesity with the simple calories-in, calories-out argument tell nothing about the root cause of this disease. Take a look at Dr. Guyenet blog[1] for a fascinating view of this issue. [1] http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com
- simplexion 11y ago
  Stop calling it a disease. It gives obese people an excuse.
  - fasteo 11y ago
    >>>> Stop calling it a disease Let me decide when I stop calling things. >>>> It gives obese people an excuse. Over-simplification of a complex issue. I have never been obese. I am 45 years old in a couple of days and I can see my abs. Unfortunately, I have a genetic defect that affects my metabolism, giving me a intermittent and profound fatigue every now and then. After reading, thinking and talking to dozens of doctors about the whole metabolic process, I have come to the conclusion that obesity is indeed a disease. In the same way, when fatigue kicks-in, I just cannot avoid being tired: I am not lazy, I exercise every day, I eat clean and sleep 7-8 hours every single night but I just cannot avoid being tired. For casual observers, they will think that I am a lazy, but the truth is quite different. This same analogy applies to obesity.