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"I like to believe she died doing something she loved doing", like it makes any difference for her.

by kukx 11y ago

cstrahan 11y ago
It doesn't make any difference to her now, but I imagine it did when she was still alive. Consider that we're all in the process of dying - it's just not as imminent for most. I imagine you still want to enjoy life, despite knowing that one day you won't be around for that enjoyment to mean anything to you. Knowing that everyone is eventually going to die, and that fulfillment is still important, why wouldn't you wish it upon people to enjoy their life til the very end?
- kukx 11y ago
  If you die you die. What difference does it make if a second ago you enjoyed your life. If anything it makes it even worse. Dying when you enjoy the life the most? I can understand that someone wants to die when he suffers terribly, but not this.
  - ChuckMcM 11y ago
    > If you die you die. What difference does it make > if a second ago you enjoyed your life. I don't know if you've watched anyone die but it isn't "fun" for most people (either the watching or the dying). Many people are there with their parents when they pass, or with grandparents or loved ones struck down by accident or disease. So in general I think everyone will likely watch as at least one other person they know and care about dies. When that happens, you may find yourself sharing the dying person's pain, and that is a heavy burden. When I am listening to, or reading about, the death of someone. I wish for them an an easy passing, with as little pain and suffering as possible, for both them and their families and loved ones, because I know from my own experience how painful it is to watch someone die and be unable to help them. So for me, the living, it makes a huge difference if the person died doing something they loved (and thus were likely experiencing joy and satisfaction at the end) then knowing someone died slowly, painfully, and inevitably spending hours, perhaps days or weeks, moving toward their own demise.
    - kukx 11y ago
      "So for me, the living, it makes a huge difference (...)" that's the whole point. This is all for you to feel better about someone dying. I don't like it, because it's so selfish; someone dies and you sugar coat it with bs.
  - jrochkind1 11y ago
    We're all going to die eventually. Does it make it worse or better to have lived a 'good' life first? I suppose it doesn't matter either way once you're dead, but all we can do is live life to the fullest, most rewarding, way before we die, right?
  - curun1r 11y ago
    I think the "die doing what you love" cliché is less about the how the person died and more about the how the person lived. She was taking a risk every time she pushed her limits diving. But, apart from the last one, each of those times added to the enjoyment of her life that she wouldn't have experienced if she hadn't been willing to risk death. It's entirely plausible to think that the 53 years of life she had were more enjoyable than 80-something would have been without the enjoyment of diving. It's why people who take on these risky sports choose to do so.
- Retra 11y ago
  I think kukx's point is more that wishing isn't effective, especially when the person you're wishing for is already dead. The obvious follow up is the question of whether or not it is correct to do ineffective things, and why people would choose to do so with such frequency that it is normalized and expected. Thus the "why wouldn't you wish it" is because wishing doesn't work, and that's probably the best possible reason to not do something. Simply rationalizing it doesn't make it a good thing.
- im3w1l 11y ago
  But we ascribe special significance to the time just before dying. It is seen as much more important to be happy the last hour you are alive, as opposed to any other in your life. Why is that? The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that it isn't really important for the person dying, but only for the rest of us. When we remember that person we will remember their last time especially strongly, and it is nice if that is a good memory. Or hmm. Another view that would justify it is that life is about optimizing some function. And that before we die we only have estimates of how well we are doing, so it is only just before death we get the final answer, if we succeeded in optimizing the function or not.
Retra 11y ago
People don't say that for her, they say that to convince themselves that death isn't as bad as it is.
- Aloha 11y ago
  Most death isn't that bad, its a quiet snuffing out, rather then a violent in the throws. Death is bad for the survivors, not for the decedent.
  - Retra 11y ago
    Death is one of the worst things that can happen to you. That's a more general moral qualification, not a purely emotional one. There's a difference between how something feels and how good or bad it is for you.
    - Aloha 11y ago
      If you have cancer, and have been sick for months or years, and are in great pain, is death the worst thing to happen to you? It may be bad for your family and loved ones - but for you, it may very well be relief. Mercy and palliative care is something I think forgotten all too often in medical care in the US, we focus so much on the cure at all costs, and less on the outcome or realistic outcome rather.
      - Retra 11y ago
        When you say "you," you are failing to properly account for the dynamics of human identity. I am not just a brain in a body. I am a fully engaged social being. The "me" that dies is not the whole me. I identify as part of a human culture. And yes, if that human culture dies -- if humanity goes extinct -- then that is just about the worst thing I could imagine. You can scale that down any number of ways, but at no point will I agree that death isn't bad. I don't care if it's a single cell, a single organ, a whole person, or a whole room full of people. It's only as good as the value it produces for the whole, and my personal suffering is not a factor to that insofar as it doesn't disable my contribution. And I didn't say death is the worst thing that can happen to you.

"I like to believe she died doing something she loved doing", like it makes any difference for her.

by kukx 11y ago

"I like to believe she died doing something she loved doing", like it makes any difference for her.

It doesn't make any difference to her now, but I imagine it did when she was still alive. Consider that we're all in the process of dying - it's just not as imminent for most. I imagine you still want to enjoy life, despite knowing that one day you won't be around for that enjoyment to mean anything to you. Knowing that everyone is eventually going to die, and that fulfillment is still important, why wouldn't you wish it upon people to enjoy their life til the very end?

kukx 11y ago
If you die you die. What difference does it make if a second ago you enjoyed your life. If anything it makes it even worse. Dying when you enjoy the life the most? I can understand that someone wants to die when he suffers terribly, but not this.
- ChuckMcM 11y ago
  > If you die you die. What difference does it make > if a second ago you enjoyed your life. I don't know if you've watched anyone die but it isn't "fun" for most people (either the watching or the dying). Many people are there with their parents when they pass, or with grandparents or loved ones struck down by accident or disease. So in general I think everyone will likely watch as at least one other person they know and care about dies. When that happens, you may find yourself sharing the dying person's pain, and that is a heavy burden. When I am listening to, or reading about, the death of someone. I wish for them an an easy passing, with as little pain and suffering as possible, for both them and their families and loved ones, because I know from my own experience how painful it is to watch someone die and be unable to help them. So for me, the living, it makes a huge difference if the person died doing something they loved (and thus were likely experiencing joy and satisfaction at the end) then knowing someone died slowly, painfully, and inevitably spending hours, perhaps days or weeks, moving toward their own demise.
  - kukx 11y ago
    "So for me, the living, it makes a huge difference (...)" that's the whole point. This is all for you to feel better about someone dying. I don't like it, because it's so selfish; someone dies and you sugar coat it with bs.
- jrochkind1 11y ago
  We're all going to die eventually. Does it make it worse or better to have lived a 'good' life first? I suppose it doesn't matter either way once you're dead, but all we can do is live life to the fullest, most rewarding, way before we die, right?
- curun1r 11y ago
  I think the "die doing what you love" cliché is less about the how the person died and more about the how the person lived. She was taking a risk every time she pushed her limits diving. But, apart from the last one, each of those times added to the enjoyment of her life that she wouldn't have experienced if she hadn't been willing to risk death. It's entirely plausible to think that the 53 years of life she had were more enjoyable than 80-something would have been without the enjoyment of diving. It's why people who take on these risky sports choose to do so.
Retra 11y ago
I think kukx's point is more that wishing isn't effective, especially when the person you're wishing for is already dead. The obvious follow up is the question of whether or not it is correct to do ineffective things, and why people would choose to do so with such frequency that it is normalized and expected. Thus the "why wouldn't you wish it" is because wishing doesn't work, and that's probably the best possible reason to not do something. Simply rationalizing it doesn't make it a good thing.
im3w1l 11y ago
But we ascribe special significance to the time just before dying. It is seen as much more important to be happy the last hour you are alive, as opposed to any other in your life. Why is that? The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that it isn't really important for the person dying, but only for the rest of us. When we remember that person we will remember their last time especially strongly, and it is nice if that is a good memory. Or hmm. Another view that would justify it is that life is about optimizing some function. And that before we die we only have estimates of how well we are doing, so it is only just before death we get the final answer, if we succeeded in optimizing the function or not.

Retra 11y ago

People don't say that for her, they say that to convince themselves that death isn't as bad as it is.

Aloha 11y ago
Most death isn't that bad, its a quiet snuffing out, rather then a violent in the throws. Death is bad for the survivors, not for the decedent.
- Retra 11y ago
  Death is one of the worst things that can happen to you. That's a more general moral qualification, not a purely emotional one. There's a difference between how something feels and how good or bad it is for you.
  - Aloha 11y ago
    If you have cancer, and have been sick for months or years, and are in great pain, is death the worst thing to happen to you? It may be bad for your family and loved ones - but for you, it may very well be relief. Mercy and palliative care is something I think forgotten all too often in medical care in the US, we focus so much on the cure at all costs, and less on the outcome or realistic outcome rather.
    - Retra 11y ago
      When you say "you," you are failing to properly account for the dynamics of human identity. I am not just a brain in a body. I am a fully engaged social being. The "me" that dies is not the whole me. I identify as part of a human culture. And yes, if that human culture dies -- if humanity goes extinct -- then that is just about the worst thing I could imagine. You can scale that down any number of ways, but at no point will I agree that death isn't bad. I don't care if it's a single cell, a single organ, a whole person, or a whole room full of people. It's only as good as the value it produces for the whole, and my personal suffering is not a factor to that insofar as it doesn't disable my contribution. And I didn't say death is the worst thing that can happen to you.