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Two related ideas in Japanese culture relevant to the discussion: Ichi-go Ichi-e, 一期一会, is a 16th century Japanese phrase saying that we meet each other only o
by xigency 11y ago
Two related ideas in Japanese culture relevant to the discussion:
Ichi-go Ichi-e, 一期一会, is a 16th century Japanese phrase saying that we meet each other only once in a lifetime. (Opportunities are scarce.)
And then there are the stories of the three samurai and the songbird.
The samurai are Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu.
Each of them encounters a songbird and wishes to hear it sing.
Nobunaga says, if you do not sing for me, then I will kill you. And he takes out his sword to slice the bird.
Hideyoshi says, if you do not sing for me, then I will make you sing. Then he offers the songbird something sweet.
Ieyasu sees the bird and says, if you do not sing for me, then I will wait until you do sing. He then sits and waits (forever).
There were many ways the allies could have ended World War II in the Pacific theater. The United States, with the dropping of the atomic bomb, chose to follow Oda Nobunaga's philosophy. Whether that is right or wrong is its own debate.
The philosophy of the 16th century samurai is a big thing in Japanese culture and often an interview question for candidates applying at a company. I have a limited knowledge of the samurai from visiting Nisshinkan in Aizu when I lived there. That was a samurai school where young fighters trained who fought in the civil war.
- savanaly 11y agoI'm all for parables that shed light on complicated situations, but isn't that one kind of sweeping everything that made it a difficult decision under the rug? When it comes to the decision of whether to drop the bomb there is like horrendous death any which way you go, but with killing a songbird as opposed to waiting it is more one sided.
- xigency 11y agoHm, I'm not sure. It's hard to tell the scale of something, even something small. I lived in Japan for six months where I stayed in Aizu, which is in Fukushima, and it was directly after the disaster (Although I was there for different reasons). The bombs that fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were something I learned about when I was young because my grandfather was on the USS South Dakota, a battleship that fought in the Pacific theater. Obviously this has sort of shaped my views. I later looked at which cities were bombed by my grandfather's ship and met some people whose relatives also fought in World War II, so that gave me a bit more perspective, but it's still something that is very hard to judge. In looking at raw destruction, the Dresden firebombing was more destructive and more lethal. One thing that differentiates this attack was that it was mainly aimed at civilians.
- xigency 11y agoAnother Chinese proverb: 三人行必有我师焉. Basically, we can all learn from each other. Relevant because this article gives perspectives from around the world, all of which are interesting. Ultimately, though, I feel this is an event in history that relies upon the mutual feelings of Japan and the United States.
- mason240 11y ago>Ieyasu sees the bird and says, if you do not sing for me, then I will wait until you do sing. He then sits and waits (forever). The world had spent several years waiting for the Axis powers to be start being peaceful. Suggesting that everyone should have just sat and waited for them to stop waging war goes well beyond ignoring reality.
- xigency 11y agoWell, he was the first Shogun of Japan and he also lived the longest. Take it with a grain of salt.
- merpnderp 11y agoJust China averaged 100,000 civilians killed per month (Korea and Indochina also had a steady massacre of civilians). Waiting for Japan to capitulate would of had its own serious set of costs. [Edit changed "murdered" to "killed" to make it less inflammatory]
- hga 11y agoTotal estimate by the point of dropping the bombs was around 250,000 killed per month throughout the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, also including Malaya as it was called back then and Indonesia. That wouldn't include the previously liberated Philippines, a battle which cost 100-500K Philippine lives, see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_massacre
- xigency 11y agoWell, the analogy obviously doesn't cover all cases. Certain concessions could have been made to negotiate a surrender other than demanding unconditional surrender and for the emperor to resign. Again I'm not a historian, so my point of view is limited. Culturally at the time there was a sort of head down stubborn attitude in Japan. Finding a solution to ending the conflict that fit within the scale of the violence would still be difficult, but it's hard to consider atomic weapons as the only way to end it. Hindsight is always 20/20. In this case not really. There's no way to know 100% what would have happened, all we know is what did happen.
- Steko 11y ago>There were many ways the allies could have ended World War II in the Pacific theater. There weren't really all that many ways it would end given that the Soviet Union operated independently and was in a position to invade much earlier.